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  #501  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:33 PM
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I have independently compiled a list of the 58 people who had a "better" claim to the Throne than George, Elector of Hanover in 1714. He only gained the Throne by the 1701 Act of Settlement. Amazingly I found when I joined here that my list tallied with the list compiled by a long standing member.
Anyway, number 51 on that list is Clemente of Modena. He was born on 20 April 1708, the third and youngest son of Rinaldo III, Duke of Modena, and is the only one on the list for whom I do not have a date of death. Some sources state he died in infancy, others that he lived until at least his mid teens, having entered the Church in 1719. The latest record I can find of him is on an Italian Royal Genealogical website which says :
"proposto di Santa Maria della Pomposa dal 1722. Arciprete di Bondeno dal 1722".
I know no Italian, so could someone please translate it for me. Also does anyone have a date of death for Clemente of Modena ?
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  #502  
Old 07-08-2013, 05:46 PM
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Aldo Barbaro was may uncle

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Originally Posted by bjv View Post
Could anyone tell me who were the Parents of aviator pioneer Count Aldo Barbaro Cornaro, born 1892 and who died when his plane crashed in Bolivia 1923 ?

I understand a road in Catanzaro, Italy was changed from Via Barbaro to Via Aldo Barbaro in recognition of his achievements, that the Villa Trieste there was the pre-Venetian Barbaro home and that his mother's line was of the Venetion house of Cornaro.

Then I get stuck .
Aldo Barbaro was my uncle. He was Aldo Barbaro Cornaro, my father was Marco Antonio Barbaro Cornaro, his brother
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  #503  
Old 08-27-2013, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkUK View Post
"proposto di Santa Maria della Pomposa dal 1722. Arciprete di Bondeno dal 1722".
I know no Italian, so could someone please translate it for me. Also does anyone have a date of death for Clemente of Modena ?
"parson of St. Mary of Pomposa since 1722. Dean of Bondeno since 1722"
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  #504  
Old 09-11-2013, 02:19 AM
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Question

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but there are a few questions that I have difficulty answering and it seems the knowledgeable members here might be able to provide assistance.


- It is my understanding that a Prince in Italy could be either a royal Prince or a non-royal/feudal Prince. (Any guidance about this would be appreciated) Accordingly, a royal Prince would be His Royal Highness (HRH/SAR), but what is the form of address for a non-royal Prince?

- Is there a list somewhere of all Italian noble and princely titles and the names of all those who legitimately held/hold these titles? (for historical and/or verification purposes) As there were so many kingdoms and principalities that existed over the centuries, I'm guessing this might be complicated and somewhat unlikely with the older/lesser known non-royal titles proving difficult to verify, but I am curious if there is any such list.


I appreciate any information or guidance the members here might be able to provide. Thanks!
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  #505  
Old 09-11-2013, 04:09 AM
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During the Kingdom of Italy (1861-1946) the Princes of the Royal Family were styled either His/Her Royal Highness or His/Her Serene Highness, accordingly to a Royal Decree issued in 1890 (although applied with many exceptions).
The other non-Royal Princes were styled either His/Her Serene Highness (mainly the Princes whose title was created by the Holy Roman Emperor and then recognized by the Kingdom of Italy - i.e. the Princes della Torre e Tasso or the Princes Gonzaga) or His/Her Excellency.

As for your second question, you can find a list of (many of) the Italian noble families in the Annuario della Nobiltā Italiana (Yearbook of Italian Nobility); I have find some lists of surname of noble families taken from the Annuario:
(Some of the) Noble families whose titles were recognized/conferred by the King of Italy: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...UwNjFiOWU0N2U2
Noble families whose titles were conferred by the Sovereign Military Order of Malta: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...ZTExMDFhMDUyYw
Noble families whose titles were conferred by King Umberto II of Italy during his exile: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...BlNTJhNDMzZmYx
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  #506  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
During the Kingdom of Italy (1861-1946) the Princes of the Royal Family were styled either His/Her Royal Highness or His/Her Serene Highness, accordingly to a Royal Decree issued in 1890 (although applied with many exceptions).
The other non-Royal Princes were styled either His/Her Serene Highness (mainly the Princes whose title was created by the Holy Roman Emperor and then recognized by the Kingdom of Italy - i.e. the Princes della Torre e Tasso or the Princes Gonzaga) or His/Her Excellency.

As for your second question, you can find a list of (many of) the Italian noble families in the Annuario della Nobiltā Italiana (Yearbook of Italian Nobility); I have find some lists of surname of noble families taken from the Annuario:
(Some of the) Noble families whose titles were recognized/conferred by the King of Italy: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...UwNjFiOWU0N2U2
Noble families whose titles were conferred by the Sovereign Military Order of Malta: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...ZTExMDFhMDUyYw
Noble families whose titles were conferred by King Umberto II of Italy during his exile: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...BlNTJhNDMzZmYx
Thanks for your quick response. To clarify so that I understand fully... generally speaking, any non-royal Prince who is not His Royal Highness or His Serene Highness would be His Excellency?

Is this generally a standard style of address in both northern and southern Italy for non-royal Princes who are not from royal family dynasties or tied to the Holy Roman Emperor?

My question is especially of interest as to non-royal Princely titles in southern Italy that were pre-unification/pre-Kingdom of Italy, and whether "His Excellency" (what is the Italian-language equivalent?) would be used. Is this style still used today in both Italy and internationally?

Any information about this or otherwise would be appreciated. Thanks for your help!

(My experience thus far with His/Her Excellency styles has been tied to international diplomatic usage and so I am currently unfamiliar with how they are used in the case of non-royal Italian Princes, thus my desire to understand and learn more... please forgive my lack of subject matter knowledge)
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  #507  
Old 09-17-2013, 05:20 PM
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Basically yes, all the non-royal Princes, with the only exception of those who were styled Serene Highness, were styled as His/Her Excellency (in Italian, Sua Eccellenza).
As far as I know, also before the unification in most of the Italian States non-royal Princes - as well as the Dukes, if I don't mistake - were styled His/Her Excellency.
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  #508  
Old 09-17-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Basically yes, all the non-royal Princes, with the only exception of those who were styled Serene Highness, were styled as His/Her Excellency (in Italian, Sua Eccellenza).
As far as I know, also before the unification in most of the Italian States non-royal Princes - as well as the Dukes, if I don't mistake - were styled His/Her Excellency.
Thank you very much, this was the information I've been struggling to find.


Is the style His/Her Excellency still used in modern-day Italy to address non-royal Princes and Dukes, or is this no longer the case?

For example, if writing/speaking about them/speaking to them, is His/Your Excellency still appropriate and currently used?
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  #509  
Old 09-18-2013, 05:31 PM
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I don't think it is any longer used, at least not officially.

Btw, I've made some more researches, and I've discovered that apparently the use of the style Excellency during the Kingdom of Italy wasn't so much a general rule as I thought before.
I've found some royal decrees issued during the 1920s and early 1940s which stated - as far as I have understood - that as a general rule only the Roman Princes (members of some Roman families ennobled by the Pope before the Italian unification) were styled Excellency, while the other Princes were just styled Don/Donna (unless they were specifically given another style, i.e. Excellency or Serene Highness).
So it appears that the situation wasn't so much clear and simple as I thought - and described to you - previously.
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  #510  
Old 09-20-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
18 May: Don Flavio of the Princes Borghese married to Isabella Olimpia Capuano at the Borghese Chapel, in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, Roma..
Is don flavio closely related to Lorenzo Borghese?
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