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  #381  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:37 AM
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I just stumbled on this Valperga thread quite by accident while trying to determine what had happened to the Valperga di Masino Wiki entry (deleted at the request of Poeti descendants apparently. It's still on Wapedia though).

I've long been interested in the Valperga family, specifically in the Valperga Counts of Barone....who may not be Valperga at all (Manno identifies them as being of bourgeoisie origin).

Essentially, Giuseppe Benedetto Valperga (n 1664 Caluso) was infeudated with the fief of Barone and given the title of count on 9 May 1723. The title was passed down to his male descendants until the line apparently died out with the death of Count Enrico Valperga on 30 Oct 1874 in Torino.

I'm particularly interested in the origins of this Valperga family. Giuseppe Benedetto was the son of Alessandro Valperga whose name in the Caluso parish records is followed by the adjective "Massadiensis," indicating that he originated in nearby Mazze'. The parish records also indicate that he is the son of the "nob Hercule Valperga." The contemporary Mazze' parrish records show only one "Hercule Valperga" who is the son of another Alessandro Valperga. It would be consistent for Hercule Valperga to name his son "Alessandro" after his father, but I can't really find a link to connect the "nob. Hercule Valperga" of the Caluso records with the "Hercule Valperga" of the Mazze' records.

The reason this interests me is I suspect the Hercule Valperga of Mazze' is a member of the Valperga Counts and Lords of Mazze', distant cousins of the Valperga Counts of Masino. The Mazze' baptismal records show a son for Hercule, named Carlo Andrea Valperga. Witnessing his baptism in 1627 is Andrea Valperga, Count of Montue' and Carlo Lorenzo, son of Augusto Cesare Valperga, Lord of Mazze'. Alas, there is no mention in the rather fragmentary Mazze' parish records of this Hercule Valperga having a son named Alessandro.

If anyone has any additional information on the origins of the Valperga Counts of Barone, I would be most grateful to see it, as I am currently at a dead end in this matter. Thanks for any help.
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  #382  
Old 03-23-2010, 12:42 PM
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Countess Marta Marzotto (the 1st from the left) celebrated the 70th birthday of Fausto Bertinotti, the former President of the Italian of Deputies, and ex- leader of the Italian Communist Refoundation Party.
No wonder in an interview her granddaughter Beatrice Borromeo stated she's a communist....(dagospia)
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  #383  
Old 05-11-2010, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count View Post
Nice to see that we have a new impostor in the world: "Princerly Count" Vitus Barbaro!
Barbaro family has not the title of Princerly Count, tipical of the German families "fuerstlicher Graf".
I already wrote about Venitian families, their only title were "Venitian Patrician", than they had the possibility to ask for the title of Count to the emperor of Austria, many of them did it (and the Barbaro too), but no princerly Count or Illustrious Highness!
In the US is very easy, you can change your name and tomorrow you will be "Romanov Holstein Gottorp von Hannover Savoy Karageorgevich Oldenburg"...
Also a families of "barons dell'Albergo" and "Talarico di Capace" do not exist. On the contrary the late Emilio Pucci was a real Marquis of Barsento.
Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro is the great-grandson of Princely Count Giambattista Valerianus Barbaro of the line "Barbaro dell'Albergo". That line of the Barbaro family also uses Albergo as a surname. His mother is of a Germanic/Italian aristocratic family, and her father the last baron of the line just died recently, there was a story about him, and he was laid to rest in Rome.

Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro also invented the "Barbaro knot" for ties- which has been featured in a few fashion articles. He is well known for "sprezzatura".

Sprezzatura (fashion)
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  #384  
Old 05-12-2010, 11:03 AM
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Prince Valerio Massimo

Enclosing some pictures of Prince Valerio Massimo's most recent trip to the summit of Mount Everest. Interesting photos, take a look:
Valerio Massimo Everest Expedition 2009
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  #385  
Old 05-14-2010, 12:56 PM
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Barbaro dell'Albergo

Dear Donna, thank you for your reply. It is very nice what you write but I must confirm that this branch of the family does not exist. I reply you only today because I just arrived home and I have checked again all my books of nobility: from the Venitian "Libro d'Argento" to the "bible" of the Italian aristocracy "Libro d'Oro della Nobiltà Italiana". No books writes of this dell'Albergo branch.
Following are the branches of Barbaro family:

of San Giorgio (noble of the Marquis)
of Sant'Angelo (Venitian Patrician)
of Torino (Count and Venician Patrician)
of Galizia (Veniatian Patrician)
of San Gregorio (Venitian Patrician and Count)

I have not found lines of this family with the title of Princely Count, I can say that according to the Italian nobility they do not exist at the moment or they have not been recognised.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mia View Post
Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro is the great-grandson of Princely Count Giambattista Valerianus Barbaro of the line "Barbaro dell'Albergo". That line of the Barbaro family also uses Albergo as a surname. His mother is of a Germanic/Italian aristocratic family, and her father the last baron of the line just died recently, there was a story about him, and he was laid to rest in Rome.

Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro also invented the "Barbaro knot" for ties- which has been featured in a few fashion articles. He is well known for "sprezzatura".

Sprezzatura (fashion)
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  #386  
Old 05-14-2010, 02:54 PM
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Venetian nobility uses many names to define various branches. In fact, the use of nicknames is an important part of Venetian culture. For example, the Venetian Contarini family has branches called "Contarini dalle Figure", " Contarini Porta di Ferro" etc. The name "Contarini Porta di Ferro" is because they had an "iron door" on their palace in Venice. There is also "Contarini del Bovolo", Venetian for of the "snail shell"- because they had a spiral staircase outside of their palace, like a snail shell. Look here for the palaces of Contarini delle Figure and Contarini del Bovolo, which indicates that nicknames are used to define branches: http://venice.jc-r.net/palaces/contarini-del-bovolo.htm ."San Gregorio" is just a branch nickname for a neighborhood in Venice near their palace- "dell'Albergo" is an equivalent nickname for a line of that branch because of heading a baronial albergian system later in their history.

There are also branches of the Barbaro family that you don't list, including Padova, and even one from Cracovia in Poland. The most important branch was "San Vidal" (now extinct). San Vidal is also called "di Maser", a nickname for where their villa was located. If you said "Barbaro di San Vidal" or "Barbaro di Maser" you would be talking about the same line, and both names are perfectly acceptable. The San Giorgio branch is also called "Barbaro von Zimmermann", and this branch will use Zimmermann and St. George as surnames, like the Albergo branch. The San Giorgio branch also had other titles too than what you mention, they were Signore di Pietramala (since 1270), Barone di Latronico (since 1530) as well as counts and marquis. For counts, they were Conte di Sant and Conte von Zimmermann. Here is a brief listing for "Barbaro von Zimmermann": http://sites.waldonet.net.mt/fournier/zimmermann.htm

"Princely Count" is an Austrian ranking of princely highness for only one line of the Barbaro family. It is not Italian. More typical fuedal counts up to princely counts both use the title "count". So there is no title of "princely count" to look for. A princely count places a style of Illustrious Highness before his title of "count". Period sources list specific details of various titles and legally clarify what type of count each line was for the Barbaro family. Only one line of the Barbaro family through Giambattista Barbaro was fully elevated to the dignity of a princely count with royal decree and through undersigning, and indicated as such in historical record. Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro is the legitimate acting head of that line since July 2003. The proper way to write his titled name is H.Ill.H. Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro, Patrician of Venice. You would only say Princely Count Vitus Sebastian Barbaro if you were talking about him, or you would address him as His Illustrious Highness, in person. You could also write his titled name as H.Ill.H. Count N.H. Vitus Sebastian Barbaro. N.H. stands for Nobilis Homo, which was the Venetian abbreviation for nobleman of Venice. Female Venetian nobles use N.D. (Nobilis Donna).

I also see from an earlier post that it was said that Ugo Francesco Maria Proto was not a Baron dell'Albergo, untrue. He was indeed a Barone dell'Albergo. For example, if you go to google books and type in "Barone dell'Albergo Ugo Francesco Maria Proto" you will find him listed as such in a book by Domenico Scina, p.115. The same is also true for the Visigothic title "Varon". Varon is not a family surname in the case of Baroness Grace Talarico di Capace, Barbaro's mother. Rather, it is a rare Visigothic title comparable to baron, look here for such clarification under "baron" : http://my.raex.com/~obsidian/glossary.html . If you are interested in learning more about the territories held by the Visigothic aristocrats in Italy, may I suggest you read "Biblioteca Storica e Letteraria di Sicilia" from Harvard University Library. It is an earlier work in Italian, which also happens to be posted on google books. Type in "Territorio di Capace", to lead you right to the chapters about the Capace territories in Southern Italy.

Thanks for the response! I was happy to help clarify the confusion.
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  #387  
Old 05-14-2010, 03:23 PM
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Venetian nicknames

If you are really interested in learning more about Venetian nicknames- go look at the book by Alvise Zorzi called "Venetian Palaces". Zorzi is a top scholar on Venetian nobility and a Venetian nobleman in his own right. Zorzi talks about Venetian nicknames in the beginning of the book, and he clarifies how nicknames are the way various branches are defined for Venetian nobility. Some of these nicknames are very funny. I really like the "Contarini Occhi Grossi " (the Contarini with the big eyes). Very funny indeed!
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  #388  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:56 AM
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Dear Donna,

thanks for your explanation, I already knew what you wrote, but it is important for other bloggers.

I also already wrote about the German title of fürstlicher Graf (Princely Count) and Erlaucht (Altezza Illustrissima).

Varon is a Spanish word which means masculine.

The main question is: why Mr. Vitus is not listed in the "Libro d'Oro della Nobiltà Italiana" and Italian member of a noble family, or in the "Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels" as Princely Count...? is is possible that these two important books have forgotten a so important branch of the Barbaro family?
Internet is a great source of right and wrong informations, we should not trust it too much.

Please give me the genealogical line of this gentleman and I will be happy to ask a friend of the Venetian Nobility if it exists.
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  #389  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:32 PM
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Hi Count,

I am sure you know many things about the aristocracy.

However, I really don't understand your question about what branch. I believe that was made clear in what I previously wrote. I also don't gather my information from the internet. I check primary sources first hand for accuracy.

Finally, it is not my intention to keep posting about the Barbaro family, but may I just correct something you posted now. The traditional wording for "princely count" in German is Gefursteter graf , not Furstlicher graf. Some may like to look at the official page of the Almanach de Gotha where rankings are listed. Go to gefursteter graf/graefin for the German ranking of princely count: Imperial and Royal European Titles, Styles and Ranks

I am sure it was just a typing mistake on your part, Count, but its good for others out there.
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  #390  
Old 05-17-2010, 06:12 PM
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Officers of the Agnelli family

I have a question, that maybe "Count" or someone else could help me with since I noticed there was some posts about the Agnelli family earlier.

I often hear much about the cavalleria officers of the Agnelli family, but do you know the names of the officers for the Agnelli family. I believe they were in the regiments of "Nizza" and "Savoia". I know there was Giovanni Agnelli, which the later Gianni Agnelli was named after, but whom else served as officers for Italy's cavalleria?
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  #391  
Old 05-17-2010, 06:42 PM
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Giovanni Agnelli the elder was officer in "Nizza cavalleria" regiment of the Italian Army; his son Edoardo was an officer in a cavalry regiment, but I don't know which one. Edoardo's sons Gianni and Umberto were both officers in "Nizza Cavalleria" regiment as well.
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  #392  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:09 PM
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Hi MAfan,

Thanks much.

I was doing a bit of research on the princely families connected to the Agnelli family, and I also wanted to head over to the Museo Storico dell'Arm di Cavalleria di Pinerolo and do some research over there too. I appreciate any names of officers or what anyone knows to help direct my research.

By chance, I also looked at their web page, and there is some images of Agnelli officers. Take a look... there are on the right: "Avvocato Giovanni Agnelli" and "Senatore Giovanni Agnelli". Il Museo Storico di Pinerolo - Sala Coppe e Trofei
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  #393  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mia View Post
However, I really don't understand your question about what branch...
Finally, it is not my intention to keep posting about the Barbaro family...
You do your credibility no favours by refusing to respond to Count's question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count
The main question is: why Mr. Vitus is not listed in the "Libro d'Oro della Nobiltà Italiana" and Italian member of a noble family, or in the "Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels" as Princely Count...? is is possible that these two important books have forgotten a so important branch of the Barbaro family?
Once a question is raised (and raised by a respected and highly knowledgeable member) your response of "it is not my intention to keep posting about the Barbaro family..." appears to be a rapid strategic withdrawal from further discussion or debate.
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  #394  
Old 05-18-2010, 12:48 PM
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The San Gregorio branch and all of its members and lines are fully documented. Also, the Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels never published genealogies of Italian noble families, as for the modern published Libro d'Oro's etc., they are not truly noble genealogies either. They are privately published directories that an aristocrat can be included into if he/she pays a fee. Inclusion or lack of inclusion is a matter of choice and payment. The last volume published (xxii) is for the years 2000-2004, and was published in September of 2000. Vitus didn't even become the head of his branch till July 2003-2004. Most Italian aristocrats don't even want to be included for privacy reasons, and the publication is failing. It use to be published within 4 year blocks, the last was in 2000- it hasn't even kept up with the times. People aren't really buying them and aristocrats tend to not want to be listed.

I can't be here all of the time, because I don't have the time- that's my interest in being brief. So if anyone does have more information on my question about Agnelli cavalleria members, please post. I will check from time to time, and thank you MAfan for your post. I appreciate and respect the knowledge of all members in the forum.
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  #395  
Old 05-18-2010, 04:27 PM
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You're welcome, Donna Mia.

Btw, I'm sorry, but I still can't understand: which branch of Barbaro Family would Vitus be member of?
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  #396  
Old 05-18-2010, 05:11 PM
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Barbaro Yachting Monaco

Thanks MAfan- you are so sweet San Gregorio.

What I am curious about is finding out if the princely count owns or is involved with Barbaro Yachting Monaco. There is some ancient history between the House of Grimaldi and the House of Barbaro. Look here: http://www.mondialbroker.it/companie...l&z=4958&K=AZS The web page says BY Monaco, but it appears that the BY stands for "Barbaro Yachting". There also seems to be an Enrico Barbaro involved with it too, a relative, I don't know?
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  #397  
Old 05-18-2010, 05:48 PM
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Dear Donna,

thanks for your post about the German title, I speak German and I translated directly from this language without thinking, you are right, it is gefürsteter.
Do you remember what I wrote you about the informations in the net ? you hit the target with the website Almanach de Saxe Gotha - Annual Royal Genealogical Reference, this is the example of wrong information, please pay attention :
I wrote you « Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels », the website is « Gotha Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels »… , further the « Almanach de Saxe Gotha » never existed, the old publication was « Almanach de Gotha », as you see a word makes the difference between a serious book a website with wrong informations…
Please have a look to the following page
www.almanachdegotha.org/id63html
if you are Italian and you know aristocracy you will understand that this site is a mix of real existing families and other fantasy families or with wrong titles, as:
His Royal ( !!!) Highness Giancarlo Bonifazi di Statte, de jure Prince of Tournai . I think Bonifazi are Counts
Prince Ralph of Etruria ( ???),
« Prince « Castracane degli Antelminelli, they are Counts…
Who is HSH Prince Don John Malcom Cracknell, Duke of Massa and Carrara ??? this dukedom was a possession of the duke of Modena, now Austria Este.
There is also the Prince of Seborga !!!!!
HE Count Mariano Windisch Gaetz, this is a real Prince and Serene Highness !
Have a look to C. A. Starke Verlag Limburg - Bücher und Veröffentlichungen über Ahnenforschung, Heraldik und Genealogie and you will find the real Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels…
I agree with you when you write that the "Libro d'Oro" is a private publication and the same for the "Corpo della Nobiltà Italiana", this is the only "official" body of the Italian nobility and "Libro d'Oro" is the only official list of noble families. Families pay to be there, of course, but they can be listed only after a proof of their titles.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Mia View Post
Hi Count,

I am sure you know many things about the aristocracy.

However, I really don't understand your question about what branch. I believe that was made clear in what I previously wrote. I also don't gather my information from the internet. I check primary sources first hand for accuracy.

Finally, it is not my intention to keep posting about the Barbaro family, but may I just correct something you posted now. The traditional wording for "princely count" in German is Gefursteter graf , not Furstlicher graf. Some may like to look at the official page of the Almanach de Gotha where rankings are listed. Go to gefursteter graf/graefin for the German ranking of princely count: Imperial and Royal European Titles, Styles and Ranks

I am sure it was just a typing mistake on your part, Count, but its good for others out there.
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  #398  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:20 PM
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Ciao conte

It's great to hear from you!

Yes, you are absolutely right about the Libro d'Oro... the ones that do choose to pay to have their family name etc. inscribed into the book, are in fact genuine nobility.

Thanks for the additional information Count!
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:17 AM
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Excellent picture of the plane of flying ace Prince Fulco Ruffo. Posting for the pleasure of others. Rather unusual personal emblem for the prince of a skull and crossbones. Please take a look:

SPAD VII dell'asso Fulco Ruffo di Calabria

The prince was trained for the cavalleria, but instead moved over to the airforce during the First World War. Here is a picture of him in uniform, also an image of his earlier plane in all white. The previous yellow one was for when he became squadrone leader. There is also some more information on his medals as well.

Take a look: Fulco Ruffo di Calabria

Fulco had 20 victories in the air when he became head of his squadrone. He was shot down on October 23, 1918 and lived till August 23, 1946.

Another great photograph of the "pirate" prince: http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/pr...ffo_stemma.jpg

Image of the arms of Fulco's branch of Ruffo: http://www.tefnet.it/images/uploads/...bria_thumb.jpg

The brown plane in the Fulco Ruffo link is the Ansaldo A1, the first fighter plane built in Italy. It was actually designed by Count Aldo Barbaro (of the San Gregorio branch of the Benedetto Barbaro line, the line of princely counts for San Gregorio were only from Giambattista Barbaro) and engineer Giuseppe Brezzi. Aldo used an Ansaldo to break a South American flight record in 1923, but died tragically in the effort. Links have more information: http://aeropuertoparaoruro.com/index...d=24&itemid=26 ; http://aviationpioneers.blogspot.com/ ; http://www.cinemascine.net/paginas/c...n=inedito&id=9
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:01 PM
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House of Medici

The arms of the House of Medici has so much variation depending on branch that it is a headache just trying to remeber them all. I'm listing the variations below to make it easier for reference:

Florence branch:

A gold shield with six equal balls arranged in a ring. The top center ball is blue with 3 fluer de lis in gold. The other 5 balls are red.

Milan branch:

Just like the Florence branch, but the blue ball is larger than the rest.

Naples and Turin branches:

The majority of the bottom part of the arms is just like the Milan branch. Also, there is a band across the top in blue with crossed papal keys and a papal canopy centered in gold.

Pago, Zara and Sebenico branches:

Six equal red balls placed in a ring on a silver shield. No fluer de lis on any ball.

Verona branch:

Alternating diagonal stripes from left to right in colors of silver and blue.

2nd Milan branch (ramo secondogenito):

A winged griffon rampante in green on horizontal alternating bands of blue and silver. A larger blue band across the top has three balls centered and placed like a pyramid in silver.

2nd Torino branch (ramo secondogenito):

A Roman she-wolf feeding Romulus and Remus centered in gold on a red band across the top of the arms. Below is an architectural ruin of a palazzo in brown on a gold field. Completely surrounding the lower portion is a band of alternating checkerboard of red and gold.
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