The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > Royal Families of Italy

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #321  
Old 10-05-2009, 02:37 PM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
In both pics Isabella is with women who married in the aristocracy: countess Benedetta Bocca and princess Diaz della Vittoria Pallavicini Rospigliosi. The pics are from Caravaggio and Bacon's exhibition's vernissage at Villa Borghese, aren't them, Tosca?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 10-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Tosca's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Somewhere in the middle of the River Po Valley, Italy
Posts: 3,552
They are. Isabella is the most beautiful among the Borromeo sisters IMO.
__________________

__________________
Let's go back to the old, and we'll have a progress! (Giuseppe Verdi)
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 10-07-2009, 01:26 AM
Lakshmi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: *, United States
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca View Post
A couple of shots of Isabella Borromeo Arese - one of the daughters of the Count of Arona, and Beatrice's half sister-
Isn't he actually a prince?
__________________
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.''
Eleanor Roosevelt

"The course of true love never did run smooth " William Shakespeare, 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'

http://www.aishwarya-rai.com/
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:02 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Italy, Italy
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakshmi View Post
Isn't he actually a prince?
No, only the Head of the House has the right to the title of Prince of Angera all other male bear the title of Count, the actual Head is Count Don Giberto Borromeo-Arese, Prince of Angera, Counta of Arona etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:08 AM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca View Post
They are. Isabella is the most beautiful among the Borromeo sisters IMO.
Surely the most chic of them
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:06 AM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
One of Italian most distinguished and wealthy noble families, the Doria Pamphili, is facing a very delicate internal dispute. Gesine Doria Pamphili Floridi has asked the Court of Rome to state that the children her brother Jonathan Doria Pamphili had abroad (US and Ukraina) with some kind of artificial procreation are not his children according to the Italian Law. The matter was reported yesterday by "Il Secolo XIX" of Genua and today is on the national press such as "Il Corriere della Sera". The public interest of the matter is due to the problematic future the enormous artistic and cultural heritage of the family will have if there will be succession problems. And that's also the reason why Gesine went to the Court.
I believe that it is also the first time the press reports the homosexuality of Jonathan Doria Pamphili, something that instead seems to be well known in the aristocratic circles. It is reported that he actively participated to the Genua Gay Pride and that he signed a civil partnership document in the UK with a brazilian citizen (himself already well know in Roman circles).
I don't know if the matters involves the Doria Pamphili titles because I don't know if Jonathan and Gesine, being adopted children of the last Princess Doria Pamphili, have got any title.
Doria contro Doria per gli eredi in provetta| Liguria | Genova| Il SecoloXIX
La dinastia e i figli della provetta Doria Pamphilj in lite per l’eredità - Corriere della Sera
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:51 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
No, this matter doesn't involve any title, because, as you have said, they are adopted children; they can bear the surname, but no titles.
This matter involves only the enormous patrimony of Gesine and Jonathan...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 10-10-2009, 03:28 PM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
Well I'm wondering: the rule that adopted children don't inherit titles is valid for Italian nobility because it was the law of the Kingdom of Italy, right? Is/was it like that also in the other kingdoms? Maybe pontificial titles have some differnt rule as far as adoption and titles?
About Jonathan I must say that, despite is homosexuality lived in a non-catholic way (gay prides, civil partnerships, artificial fertilization..), he seems to have a good and frequent relationship with Catholic hierarchies. On the past days for example he was at Palazzo Venezia for the opening of an exhibition about saints and power, an event that was attended by crowds of bishops, cardinal and even the Vatican Secretary of State.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 10-10-2009, 05:59 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
I don't think...pontificial titles were recognised by the Kingdom of Italy, at least after 1929, so I think the rules were the same...
Btw in Italy adopted children can't inherit the title; an example is Gioachino Lanza Tomasi, adopted son of writer Giuseppe Tomasi, Prince of Lampedusa; Gioachino added the Tomasi surname to his own Lanza Surname, but the titles of Giuseppe were inherited by his uncle Pietro Tomasi.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 10-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
Even Daily Mail has picked up the story.


Two British-born orphans adopted by regal Italian family in legal battle over £1bn fortune

Quote:
Two British-born orphans who inherited a billion-pound fortune including two Renaissance palaces and a priceless art collection are at the centre of a bitter Italian legal battle.

Archibald and Mary were plucked as babies from a Roman Catholic orphanage in London and became Prince Jonathan and Princess Gesine after they were adopted by British-born Princess Orietta Pogson Doria Pamphilij.
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat - Fortune favours the bold *** ... ***Amore, more, ore, re - Love, behaviour, words, actions *** ... ***Aquila non capit muscas - An eagle does not hunt flies
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:36 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
I love the Palazzo Doria Pamphili. Oh, to be allowed inside and be able to look at all the rooms and gaze out of all the windows would be heaven.

There is so much room you wonder why they can not just live in seperate wings in some sort of civil family unity.

Funny that such an old Italian family had become essentialy English. But why would even their natural children be given a princely titel if Orietta married Mr. Pogson?:

..His adoptive mother, British-born Princess Orietta met Roman Catholic convert Lieutenant Commander Frank Pogson in Italy during World War Two and they married in the Brompton Oratory in London in 1958.
The marriage had the blessing of Orietta’s father, who had also married an Englishwoman, and they moved to Rome.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1219838/Two-British-born-orphans-adopted-regal-Italian-family-babies-legal-battle-children-inherit-1-billion-fortune.html#ixzz0TnLDLXUT
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 10-13-2009, 05:01 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
Well, maybe it's a bit too much to call Orietta "british born"...she was half british and half italian, and lived here in Italy...
Btw the two children have no titles, for two reasons: the first is that they were adopted children; the second is that the titles belonged to their stepmother, and in Italy titles are transmitted only in male line.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 10-13-2009, 05:07 AM
amedea's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TORINO, Italy
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
I love the Palazzo Doria Pamphili. Oh, to be allowed inside and be able to look at all the rooms and gaze out of all the windows would be heaven.

There is so much room you wonder why they can not just live in seperate wings in some sort of civil family unity.

Funny that such an old Italian family had become essentialy English. But why would even their natural children be given a princely titel if Orietta married Mr. Pogson?:
Palazzo Doria Pamphilj's monumental rooms are open to the public: have a look at the family's official website :: Famiglia Doria Pamphilj - Sito ufficiale , a part of it is also in english: :: Galleria Doria Pamphilj - Roma
The problem is not living in separate wings, but not to dispel the heritage and keeping it unite so that you can use the incomings to mantain the historical buildings: it must be so expensive!
Natural children would have inherited the family titles beacuse Orietta was the last member of her family. In such cases, in Italy, some titles can be inherited by a woman and her descendants.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 10-13-2009, 05:08 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
Yes, you're right.
But since they are not natural children...the matter doesn't exist.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 10-17-2009, 12:08 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Italy, Italy
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Yes, you're right.
But since they are not natural children...the matter doesn't exist.
Jonathan and Gesine are noble but not princes...they only have the right to the name Pogson Doria Pamphili, nothing more...

Only a reigning King can give the permission to bear the title, in Italy we do not have a king so the answer is easy...

There is a private association of nobles in Italy that "recognises" titles, but it is only a private association...no legal value...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:40 PM
thedittybopper's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Princess Orietta Doria Pamphilj-Landi

Hi im not sure if this belongs in another thread, maybe it doesn't belong here at all so please do feel free to delete this, but i came across this article and i was wondering if anyone knew anything else about ths family.

Not so happy ever after...plucked as babies from an orphanage by an Italian princess but now they're at war over the family's £1bn fortune | Mail Online

again I apologize in advance if it does not belong here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8305238.stm
__________________
Arrogance diminishes wisdom - Arabian proverb
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:43 PM
thedittybopper's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Some more history on Princess Orietta

Doria-Pamphilii-Landi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (not the most reliable source)
__________________
Arrogance diminishes wisdom - Arabian proverb
Reply With Quote
  #338  
Old 10-23-2009, 03:32 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
This topic has already been faced in the italian royalty and nobility thread;
btw, both in Wikipedia and in the first article is written that Gesine and Jonathan are Princes: that's false, adopted children can't inherit titles in Italy (well, at least when titles were recognised...); they only are the heirs of the money and the goods of Donna Orietta.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #339  
Old 10-24-2009, 05:19 AM
thedittybopper's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 86
Yes I am aware that they cannot inherit titles as they adopted, I came across the article and thought it would be of interest, if it doesn't belong here than feel free to delete this thread.
__________________
Arrogance diminishes wisdom - Arabian proverb
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:26 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,366
Leon or Lion and Ocean are "only" the translations of their names; btw, the oldest is Leone and the youngest if Oceano (nothing against John and Lavinia, but...poor baby, they've named him Oceano! )
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
noble families, princely families, taly


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royal, Princely and Noble Families of Germany & Austria 2 Dulce Elena Royal Families of Germany and Austria 234 10-20-2014 02:50 AM
Italian Noble and Princely Families 1: June 2004 - July 2007 Lord Williams Royal Families of Italy 206 07-20-2007 05:48 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth carl philip charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman poland pom pregnancy president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess mabel princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:25 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]