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  #61  
Old 07-08-2006, 02:47 AM
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Amadeo's claim might be further strengthend by Victor Emmanuel himself.

Part of the terms of the Savoy family's return to Italy in 2002 were that Victor Emmanuel officially had to renounce his claim to the throne. This seemed smoothed over, at the time, by the official Papal invitation that permitted them the honors normally reserved for heads of state.

So, while it looked great and seemed like a successful conclusion to the decades Victor Emmanuel campaigned to be allowed back into Italy, the harsh reality is that he and his family swore loyalty to the Italian republic and renounced all claims to the throne.

I can't imagine it's possible to fight for something one has already given up.

Eliza

Here is a short but interesting article about this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/st...808631,00.html
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  #62  
Old 07-08-2006, 02:58 AM
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Furthermore, Amadeo is not laying claim to Prince of Venice or Piedmont
Umberto II refused to name his son VE prince of Poedmont, which is equivalent to the title of England's Prince of Wales, as the late ex-king was well aware that Italy could no longer be a monarchy. So, since the seals of the House of Savoy were buried with Umberto II on his own command, nobody is entitled to became the next Prince of Piedmont as the dinasty was declared dead by the king himself.
I think Marina is the countess of Sant'Anna.
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  #63  
Old 07-08-2006, 03:04 AM
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Another interesting part to this drama. Each week there seems to be another story in this family that comes out, further damaging their credibility.

I might be overly cynical, but this announcement seems motivated by purely selfish factors. Amadeo has just declared himself the winner in the rivalry that has clearly existed between he and Vittorio Emmanuel. There is, after all, no better time to attempt a takeover than when your rival is in jail! It's also very convenient that he can deflect media attention to these matters instead of his new (illegitimate) daughter- the baby he promised he would recognize but yet has failed to do so.

There is seems to be very little gained through this claim- no property, money, crown jewels etc.

Perhaps this now answers the questions posted on this forum about why his son's wedding has been postponed several times and now will be a private affair!

Eliza
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  #64  
Old 07-08-2006, 09:49 AM
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Do Amadeo & descendant retain titles of Duke of Aosta?
Amedeo has been named Duke of Savoy by the so-called council of the Senate of the Italian Kingdom (which is obviously a virtual body), while the title of Duke of Aosta has been assigned to his son Aimone, who is currently the Duke of Apulia and will also be involved with the reorganization of the Orders of San Maurizio e Lazzaro, in compliance with Italian law, as he said in an interview.
Princess Maria Gabriella will be responsible for the fields of art, culture and history.
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  #65  
Old 07-12-2006, 10:29 AM
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Amedeo of Savoy-Aosta giving a speech during a press conference held by the (virtual) Senate of Italian Kingdom to explain how they are going to make any information about the House of Savoy clear and exhaustive, and to definitely explain what will be the roles of Vittorio Emanuele and his son Emanuele Filiberto that have been deprived of their authority. (olycom)

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  #66  
Old 07-12-2006, 11:30 AM
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Amedeo of Aosta's daughter Bianca and husband (olycom)
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  #67  
Old 07-12-2006, 10:47 PM
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I heard recently from a member of the order of Ss. Maurice & Lazarus ( a dynastic order of the House of Savoy of which Emmanuele Filiberto is Grand Chancellor) and he told me that only 9 out of 61 members of the Consulta dei Senatori del Regno which is an advisory body appointed originally by King Umberto II in 1955, which continued, after the King's death in 1983, to always be subject to the will of HRH Prince Victor Emmanuel of Savoy, as head of the Royal House made this "decision".

Even if the Consulta had acted as a unanimous body (which, of course did not), it lacks both the jurisdiction and the authority to independently "recognize," "declare," or "change" the line of succession of the Italian Royal House. And, or course, neither do the Aostas have the power to self-elevate themselves.
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  #68  
Old 07-13-2006, 03:49 PM
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so, now the heirs are the aosta's?
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  #69  
Old 07-13-2006, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchainho
so, now the heirs are the aosta's?
According to their supporters. The Savoys are sort of split at the moment.
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  #70  
Old 07-14-2006, 08:23 AM
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From what I am hearing nothing is settled yet. One of the most significant contributions to society today made by the House of Savoy is through the charitable works done by the Orders of Savoy (The Annunziata, Ss. Maurice & Lazarus and the Order of Merit of Savoy). The Grand Mastership of these remains at the moment with Victor Emmanuel and they are adminstered by the Grand Chancellor, Emmanuel Philibert.
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  #71  
Old 07-14-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iago
I heard recently from a member of the order of Ss. Maurice & Lazarus ( a dynastic order of the House of Savoy of which Emmanuele Filiberto is Grand Chancellor) and he told me that only 9 out of 61 members of the Consulta dei Senatori del Regno which is an advisory body appointed originally by King Umberto II in 1955, which continued, after the King's death in 1983, to always be subject to the will of HRH Prince Victor Emmanuel of Savoy, as head of the Royal House made this "decision".

Even if the Consulta had acted as a unanimous body (which, of course did not), it lacks both the jurisdiction and the authority to independently "recognize," "declare," or "change" the line of succession of the Italian Royal House. And, or course, neither do the Aostas have the power to self-elevate themselves.
I read this on this week's issue of DIVA mag.
According to Vittorio Emanuele and his son, nothing has changed.
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  #72  
Old 07-16-2006, 09:40 PM
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New Prince fills Savoy boots

quote from the above:
Vittorio Emanuele's cousin, Amedeo d'Aosta, is now "the chief of the Savoia family, and Duca di Savoia, holding all the relevant titles and powers.

The council of the kingdom senators was established in 1955, with the approval of former King, Umberto II, to preserve the traditions of the senate in the Kingdom of Italy.
However, they only one of two rival bodies calling themselves the Council of Senators of the Kingdom...
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  #73  
Old 07-17-2006, 01:29 AM
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It is a mess indeed and partly because of selfishness and factionalism on the part of others. Since this council of the kingdom senators is already split since 2001 and of the 61 semators in the group only nine made this declaration about Amedeo that means a faction of a faction took it upon themselves to make this false claim.

Amedeo is not the Duke of Savoy nor Head of the Royal Family. Victor Emmanuel still is for the time being and now the whole thing is going to get dragged into court.

Nice going council...you've thrown gasoline onto a smoldering fire.
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  #74  
Old 07-17-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iago
It is a mess indeed and partly because of selfishness and factionalism on the part of others.
I think you will agree that Vittorio Emanuele is as much a cause of this mess as is Amedeo & Gabriella.
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  #75  
Old 08-12-2006, 09:51 AM
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Does anybody know why marriage of prince Amadeo with his first wife was annuled by Sacra Rota? Usually it's very difficult to obtain annullation from Vatican (there's have to be very valid reason p.ex marriage wasn't consummated) and it's easier to get divorce. I'm not interessted in pure gossip, I'm just curious why they (or probably only one part) have chosen annulation instead of divorce.
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  #76  
Old 08-13-2006, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by zarat
I'm not interessted in pure gossip, I'm just curious why they (or probably only one part) have chosen annulation instead of divorce.
It isn't a matter of choosing annulment or divorce. Both have ocurred. One must first obtain a civil divorce in order to begin proceedings for a Catholic annulment. The divorce ends the legal marriage. Annulment means the marriage was never sacramental in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
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  #77  
Old 08-13-2006, 12:45 PM
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No, iago. In Italy and in the countries where you have a Concordat, annulment coincides with divorce.
In fact, in Italy you don't have to marry civilly before you wed in the church, because there's no separation between religious and civil marriage. Obviously, you can only have a civil ceremony, if you want!
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  #78  
Old 08-25-2006, 05:10 PM
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Since Emanuele Filiberto now has two little daughters, if he either has no more children or keeps having daughters, wouldn't succession pass to the Savoy-Aosta branch? Provided Aimone and Olga, when/if they ever get married, have a son, and EF had only daughters, upon EF's death, wouldn't the claim pass to Aimone? (or, if he precedes EF in death, his hypothetical son) I'm not sure if this is correct, but is succession limited to males only? Would changing this require a constitution change, as in the case of Roumania, where Princess Margarita is King Michael's heir, but not legally a crown princess?
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  #79  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morhange
Since Emanuele Filiberto now has two little daughters, if he either has no more children or keeps having daughters, wouldn't succession pass to the Savoy-Aosta branch? Would changing this require a constitution change, as in the case of Roumania, where Princess Margarita is King Michael's heir, but not legally a crown princess?
Yes, The Savoy-Aostas will eventually assume the Headship of the Royal House of Savoy if EF doesn't have a son and Aimone does. If the former constitution of the Italian Kingdom laid down succession rules, then, like Romania, they would be "frozen in time". Since there is no Kingdom in either country the old constitutions are historical relics and cannot be changed. However, the Savoys may have House Rules which are separate from any constitution.
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  #80  
Old 08-28-2006, 11:34 AM
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< ed discussion about annulments - Warren >

Prince Amedeo and his first wife Claude of France in the 60's (Grazianeri)

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