The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > Royal Families of Italy

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 12-05-2003, 05:52 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 898
Quote:
Sean:

To address your contention first, I used the term "noteable exception" in regards to the absence of Spanish royals at Maria Carolina's baptism, not "sole exception". "Noteable" means "worthy of notice", not "solitary".
You said that Europe's royals turned out in large numbers and that the notable exception was Spain. This gives the impression that you were referring to to reigning houses (which Spain is) & that Spain was the only noteable exception among them. The fact of the matter is that none of the reigning houses were represented (in any capacity), with the exception of two. Perhaps you should have worded it better and stated that they were perhaps not present because of the enmity between the two families.

Quote:
I really didn't feel that it was necessary to list every single royal house, reigning and non-reigning, that was not represented at the event in my original post, but simply to note that it was "noteable" that the Spaniards did not attend. Considering the fact that this was not a state event, but a private celebration, and given the past enmity between the two families, I'd venture a guess that they weren't invited. As far as reigning monarchies sending representatives in an official capacity, we can review the differences between "private celebrations" and "state events" in more depth if you feel it necessary to do so.
Snort. Firstly, no one said anything about an official capacity. Secondly, I'm very familiar with the difference between State and private functions, thank you. Obviously it is you that needs the review. There can be no "state event" if there is no state to begin with.


Quote:
Even if every reigning monarch, consort , and heir-apparent in Europe had attended, they all would have been there in an unofficial capacity as it was private function.
Yes, I'm well aware. The fact of the mater is that the reigning houses of Europe were not represented -- either officially (which is impossible in this case) or unofficially.

Quote:
As for the rest, I've never seen quite so many hairs being split simultaneously in my life!
Well, what can I say, I'm pedantic and tend to generally know what I'm talking about.


Quote:
(and no, I didn't claim they were royal - thanks again for putting words in my mouth).
Actually, you did. You prefaced the top half of your list of names with the following sentence: " Among the other royal guests, there were..." :P

Quote:
However, I note with satisfaction that you did catch the names of those whose royal status is generally unquestioned (even if they don't satisfy your rather exacting moral standards, or come from non-reigning houses, or simply aren't appealing to you)
Well, don't get too "satisfied", because, their status *isn't* generally unquestioned. More specifically, they are all non-reigning and only carry titles of pretension. These titles have no legal currency per se and, thus, their (supposed) royal status can be questioned (and has been).

Quote:
conveniently left off when you capped the royalty on the guest list at the "jet-setting" Grimaldis, Prince and Princess Laurent, and "a Bonaparte".
Quote:
Read the above. I didn't convienently leave them off. I just don't consider all of them royalty. And the "a Bonaparte" was in reference to the husband of Beatrice de Bourbon, not the guests in attendence.

Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble, but several scions of reigning royal houses have their share of moral and behavioral shortcomings as well. Their messes just get cleaned up more quietly.

Who's denying that? I don't kow-tow to any of them, so don't worry about bursting my bubble. I hold everyone to the same standard. [/QUOTE] And I don't have exacting moral standards. I just draw the line at certain things, particularly when people are touting themselves as 'leaders'.


Quote:
(And just in case you feel compelled to subtlely remand me for referring to the Grimaldis as "royalty", I already know the technicalities, thank you - it's just that there's no such word as "princelty").
The correct way to refer to them is as princely. The Princely Grimaldi's or the Grimaldi's of Monaco.

Quote:
salute your vast and varied knowledge, even if I don't necessarily agree with your interpretations or share your conclusions. We could go around and around on this issue and it would get us nowhere, as the two factions of the House of the Two Sicilies themselves have been unable to put it to rest and end it amicably for 43 years.
Quote:
Likewise. And actually, I'm not even remotely interested in them, although I know quite a bit about the imbroglio. I was just pointing out that, going by the rule of law, your conclusions are not correct.
Quote:
By the way, the senior Bourbon is Luis Alfonso, not Juan Carlos. Speaking in terms of strict primogeniture, that is, although you may qualify things in terms of reigning and non-reigning, or apply particular moral filters in your assessments.
AFAIC, he isn't the senior Bourbon because his grandfather renounced his rights and his French claim is questionable to say the least. And I do tend to qualify things in the sense of reigning and non-reigning or the last reigning (as the case may be). They tend to have more legitimacy.


I'm off to the gym. Have a nice day.

Sean
__________________

__________________
  #42  
Old 12-05-2003, 11:47 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 898
Quote:
Originally posted by Perillos@Dec 5th, 2003 - 3:53 pm
Sean:

Just to clarify, I can see why you thought I had described all the non-royals on that guests list as royals - I did a cut-and-paste from the Duke of Castro's website, so those were not actually my words lumping all the non-royals in with the royals. I acknowledge the fact that it looked that way, and that you weren't actually putting words in my mouth.
Don't worry about it. It's all in good debate. I didn't see this post before posting my previous message. In any event, for a change it's nice to debate/discuss with someone that knows what they're talking about (and/or presents good, thought out arguments. Even if we disagree.

Have a fabulous evening.
:flower:
S
__________________

__________________
  #43  
Old 01-28-2005, 05:11 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East of the sun and west of the moon, United States
Posts: 6,423
Photos from IBL of the Duke and Duchess of Calabria and their two daughters:
Attached Images
     
__________________
WYAO
  #44  
Old 03-13-2005, 10:40 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 228
thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean.~
Don't worry about it. It's all in good debate. I didn't see this post before posting my previous message. In any event, for a change it's nice to debate/discuss with someone that knows what they're talking about (and/or presents good, thought out arguments. Even if we disagree.

Have a fabulous evening.
:flower:
S

It is a really a very interesting debate about Primogeniture/ Reigning...
Thank you for such interesting information...
__________________
  #45  
Old 06-08-2005, 09:35 PM
Amira's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Casablanca, Morocco
Posts: 1,103
Prince Carlo and Princess Camilla of Borbone attend the Heart Of Children Benefit Gala at the Protomoteca Terrace at the Capitole on June 8, 2005 in Rome, Italy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	53039841.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	156999   Click image for larger version

Name:	53039842.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	37.1 KB
ID:	157000   Click image for larger version

Name:	53039844.jpg
Views:	1763
Size:	31.9 KB
ID:	157001   Click image for larger version

Name:	53039847.jpg
Views:	225
Size:	31.4 KB
ID:	157002  

__________________
  #46  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:44 PM
GrandDuchess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Somwhere, Sweden
Posts: 3,407
You can find pictures of the baptism of the Duke and Duchess of Calabria's second daughter, Maria Chiara, here (only small ones though, as Rex don't allow making them bigger).
__________________
Sofia's Blog (my blog)
  #47  
Old 08-04-2005, 07:03 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 853
You'll probably need to delinieate exactly who you consider to be the head of the house - the Italian, or the Spaniard. Most houses (AIUI, all except Spain) recognise the Italian, but it could lead to conflicts.
__________________
Kelly D
  #48  
Old 08-10-2005, 09:48 PM
pdas1201's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 2,744
Duke and Duchess of Calabria's second daughter, Maria Chiara, was baptized at Stella Maris De Porto Cervo Church in Sardinia, Italy on August 2, 2005. Princess Michael was one of the godparents. Prince Henrik of Denmark was also present.

Part 1
www.rexfeatures.com
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	538361A.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	178260   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361B.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	28.4 KB
ID:	178261   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361D.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	32.7 KB
ID:	178262   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361H.jpg
Views:	245
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	178263  

Click image for larger version

Name:	538361I.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	32.6 KB
ID:	178264   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361J.jpg
Views:	529
Size:	30.2 KB
ID:	178265   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361K.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	23.6 KB
ID:	178266   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361L.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	24.8 KB
ID:	178267  

Click image for larger version

Name:	538361M.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	178268   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361N.jpg
Views:	272
Size:	32.2 KB
ID:	178269  
__________________
  #49  
Old 08-10-2005, 09:49 PM
pdas1201's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 2,744
Part 2
www.rexfeatures.com
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	538361O.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	178270   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361P.jpg
Views:	219
Size:	33.8 KB
ID:	178271   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361Q.jpg
Views:	225
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	178272   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361R.jpg
Views:	210
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	178273  

Click image for larger version

Name:	538361S.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	27.9 KB
ID:	178274   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361T.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	36.8 KB
ID:	178275   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361U.jpg
Views:	204
Size:	33.7 KB
ID:	178276   Click image for larger version

Name:	538361V.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	37.6 KB
ID:	178277  

Click image for larger version

Name:	538361AD.jpg
Views:	204
Size:	32.6 KB
ID:	178278  
__________________
  #50  
Old 08-10-2005, 11:07 PM
Mandy's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 6,927
Thanks pdas! What a beautiful baby!
  #51  
Old 08-11-2005, 02:43 AM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,839
Princess Michael is a godmother to the new baby?? She is close to the Italian Royals??
__________________
  #52  
Old 08-11-2005, 04:16 AM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 14,316
Did the King of Spain invite this Duke and Duchess of Calabria to his sons wedding? I assume that he supports the claim of the other duke of Calabria, Infante Carlos (and his lovely wife Anne of France).
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
  #53  
Old 08-11-2005, 06:56 AM
Danielle's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
Duke and Duchess of Calabria's second daughter, Maria Chiara, was baptized at Stella Maris De Porto Cervo Church in Sardinia, Italy on August 2, 2005. Princess Michael was one of the godparents. Prince Henrik of Denmark was also present.

Part 1
www.rexfeatures.com
Thank you for posting the photos. Aww, their daughters are so beautiful. I think this photo is very sweet: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...hmentid=178265 I'm sorry, but I don't really know much about this family. Who is the other child being baptised as well?
__________________

  #54  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:38 AM
carlota's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 5,767
i didn't know princess michael of kent was so close to the duke and his wife camilla either... :s
__________________
Sign the United Nations Universal Declaration on Animal Welfare: http://www.animalsmatter.org
YOUR DAILY CLICK HELPS ANIMALS SURVIVE!
Feed an animal in need, click for free.
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Take some time to sign the petitions @: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/animal-welfare/all
  #55  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:40 AM
LaMinka's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 1,870
Princess Maria Chiara is a beautiful baby!
__________________
So I’ll stand With arms high and heart abandoned In awe of the One who gave it all. My soul to You surrendered, All I am is Yours.
  #56  
Old 08-12-2005, 04:51 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,399
Bourbon-Two Sicilies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielle
I'm sorry, but I don't really know much about this family.
The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was ruled by a branch of the Spanish Bourbons until it was forcibly annexed into the new Kingdom of Italy in 1860.

The Royal House of the Two Sicilies has a disputed succession. Since 1960 the Headship of the Royal House has been claimed by Prince Don Carlos, Duke of Calabria, and by Prince Don Ferdinando, Duke of Castro.

Don Carlos is married to Princess Anne of France and was granted the title of Infant of Spain by King Juan Carlos in 1994. Needless to say, the Spanish Royal House recognises Don Carlos as the rightful Head.

Don Carlos and Anne have one son and four daughters: Prince Pedro, whose first child was born in 1993 (scandal!), married the mother, Sofia Landaluce y Melgareja, in 2001, and has two more children. This marriage is not considered dynastic. The daughters are Cristina, married to Pedro Lopez-Quesada; Maria Paloma, married to Archduke Simeon of Austria; Ines, married to an Italian aristocrat; and Victoria, married to Marco Nomikos of the Greek shipping family.

The rival, Don Ferdinando, married Chantal, a French aristocrat (who died a few weeks ago). There are three children: Charles (Carlo) (styled Duke of Calabria as well, to add to the confusion), who married Camilla Crociani (the subject of this thread) in 1998; best man at the wedding in Monaco was Prince Albert; Beatrice, who married (and divorced) Charles, Prince Napoleon, and Anne, who married an aristocrat.

The bitter dispute over the Headship of the House may well resolve itself if Prince Pedro's sons are disqualified from the succession, and if Prince Charles has the longed-for son.
.
__________________
  #57  
Old 08-12-2005, 04:29 PM
Piewi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BA, Argentina
Posts: 1,353
Maria Chiara is sooooo beautiful and cute
__________________
  #58  
Old 08-12-2005, 05:13 PM
mybags's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, United States
Posts: 596
Princess Michael is Senior Dame of the British and Irish Delegation of the Constantinian Order, closely associated with the Calabria family. The other baby being christened is the daughter of the Duchess's sister, Cristina Crociani Delrieu. Cristina is married to Nicolas Delrieu. Their daughter is named Delia.
__________________
  #59  
Old 08-12-2005, 05:33 PM
Alisa's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,843
Thank you for the pictures. The children are absolutely beautiful!! I am surprised that we didn't see Prince Laurent and Princess Claire present.
__________________
  #60  
Old 08-12-2005, 06:48 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 767
that baby is so cute......i especially like the one where she put her finger in her mouth~!!!!
__________________

__________________
Closed Thread

Tags
bourbon two sicilies, calabria, duchess of calabria, duke of calabria, two sicilies


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duke and Duchess of Bragança and Family: February 2008- Marengo The Royal Family of Portugal 474 09-18-2014 02:00 PM
The Duke and Duchess of Kent: Oct 2003- A.C.C. British Royals 463 08-02-2014 06:26 PM
Viscount and Viscountess Linley and family 1: July 2003-April 2008 Alexandria Current Events Archive 206 04-25-2008 11:59 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman picture of the month pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:58 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]