Death of HRH The Duke of Parma 18 August 2010


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Amedea, I would have never imaged one day the 'Nave Corsara' website could land on TRF. Though we're based in the same city, I forgot about it...;)

Well, I was wondering about that myself, after learning the reason the two jetfighters were flying virtually over a circumscribed place. Why resort to the air force, to watch over a bunch of people (much with all respect to the dead and his family and friends), who have nothing to do with today's Italy. Prince Carlos Xavier hardly speaks Italian (he messes it with Spanish). Prince Meli Lupi has an interesting and long family tree, and a nice Castle, although short of cash...;) But he's a normal citizen of this Republic he likes it or not. So, again, why resort the air force? Don't forget that the money payed out by the city council. are the taxpayers' money. Why spend it for a person, whose family was expelled from the small country they'd ruled back in 1859. Who could be so crazy to perform a terror attack on some people that are almost unknown to the Italians?

The people of Parma never liked them, they ruined most of the work Maria Louise had done for her small Duchy. The Archduchess was an enlighted sovereign, that gave the Duchy of Parma, Piacenza and Guastalla, those reforms that enabled these provinces to still be the richest and most liveable in Italy, nearly a couple of centuries later.
Even though the Bourbon Parma weren't so horrible like their counterparts down South, they weren't much loved by their subjects.
 
I do hope you get over the loss of precious tax money in Silvio's Republic where so much goes by unnoticed that I would say how refreshing this is out in the open wouldn't you think.:)

And it is not just the B-P Family,but the guests from Reigning Houses and other dignitaries that do count to.
Members of our RF as well as the Grand Duke of Luxembourg or the Heriditary Grand Duke,the Luxembourg Court
hasn't decided yet.But today anything official goes with stringent safety messures,it's the time of silly people so one has to.
 
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Also the fact of mantaining the Spanish flag and the Carlist hat was a mistake IMO. They identify Carlos Hugo as somebody who preferred the Spanish claim to the Parma one and also as a foreigner. People will think it's true that those families were actually foreigner ruling on them and not caring about them, as the traditional storiography often say.

lucien said:
I do hope you get over the loss of precious tax money in Silvio's Republic where so much goes by unnoticed that I would say how refreshing this is out in the open wouldn't you think.:)
Click to expand...

Lucien,
1- maybe abroad people think that Italian politics are so bad because Italians are very sensitive about their politicians wasting money and they say it loud. Actually reading your posts it seems that abroad people don't even notice when money is wasted, so maybe over there the same money is wasted but nobody notice!
2- if a lot of money is wasted that's not a good reason to waste more money.
 
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Not that they will eat less for it nowadays.They won't.The titles and lands in the old old days were soo immensely dispersed,many had bits and pieces all over Europe,so no,nothing out of the ordinary to be the former Claimant to one,and a member of a former ruling family ruling land another too.History shows that happens often as I think you'd know.:)

:)True Amice!It's not wasted,Parma sees a revival of part of it's rich past,
and the revenue due to the people,press,guests it attracts etc etc brings
back pecunia in the bin.Nothing lost.But please,discussing pecunia in this
time is tres tres ordinair.We abroad think it is at least.
 
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Of course that happens but if you want to be loved by someone you have to chose. Just think about the effort of the British Royal Family to delete the German surname etc.
Then, even if you don't want to choose, why being desplayed in a place with the flags of the other place? You can change those flag.
I have nothing against the Bourbon Parma family, I'm just saying how IMO they should behave to risk less criticism and to try to increase their popularity.

As I said before, all this can justify the city council expences, not the army ones. You thinks both the expences are justified. That's fine, we don't need to discuss this further.
BTW, just to let you know, I don't fear ordinariety.
 
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Ha, ha, that's funny! Parma is one of Europe's richest city: Barilla, Bormioli, Pinko, and lot's of trade fairs that attract businessmen from all over the world. Money are always welcome, but we wouldn't surely starve if the Duke had chosen to be buried somewhere else. People abroad think that we're a bunch of boorish people living among the Mau-mau.

Berlusconi has nothing to do with the decision the city council of Parma have taken. I think the money I pay to the Province where I live and to the Emilia-Romagna region could have been spent for the ordinary citizen's needs. I do not see the reason for having two jetfighters polluting the air of the already polluted Po Valley to protect the body of a person, who means nothing to the today's Parma/Piacenza/Emilian dwellers. That's why you didn't find much about CH in the local press.

Besides having the Spanish flag on the Duke's coffin shows that they still consider this land as their colony. They were never well liked in the past (Carlo III was killed by a subject), and they never will. Maria Louise promoted learning, the Burbouns closed the University: smart move!
 
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Closing the university was hearly Carlos Hugo's fault was it.Please refrain from what doesn't belong in a thread concerning the death
of the late Duke,sounds like a family out at revenge at a funeral....grin...Prego.:)
 
:bourbonparma: :dutchstandard:

As I mentioned before TRH The Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima will attend the funeral of the late Duke this saturday,as well as TRH Princess Irene-,Princess Margriet-,Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentien of The Netherlands,Prince Friso and Princess Mabel of Orange Nassau and Prof.mr.Pieter van Vollenhoven,as well as TH Prince Maurits-,Prince Bernhard-,Prince Pieter-Christiaan-,Prince Floris- and
Princess Aimée of Orange Nassau van Vollenhoven will be in attendance.

:bourbonparma: :luxstandard:

Grand Duke Henri will attend the funeral as well,he is a cousin once removed of the late Duke,his grandfather,
Prince Felix de Bourbon Parma,was married to Grand Duchess Charlotte.

News Summary Royalblog.nl: Grand Duke Henri at funeral in Parma

courtesy hja
 
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lucien said:
Closing the university was hearly Carlos Hugo's fault was it.Please refrain from what doesn't belong in a thread concerning the death
of the late Duke,sounds like a family out at revenge at a funeral....grin...Prego.:)
Click to expand...

I have nothing against the late Duke and his family. I was just referring to historical facts and why the people of Parma never mention the Burbons, but they do talk enthusiastically about Maria Louise instead, and all the good job she did for her tiny realm, and they will even talk about the Farnese family to some extent, but avoid mentioning the Bourbons. Can you explain this? I've been living there for a long time, and had to learn a bit about this city's and province's history. How can somebody living hundreds kilometers far from my home, judge all this?

I was commenting about the waste of money to resort to the Italian airforce to protect someone, who was/is almost totally unknown to the most of my fellow citizens? Why not use that money for a better cause? This man was the 'Duke of Parma', but what did he do for 'his' city? Did he promote any cultural events in Parma or was he involved in any charity work for Parma? Although this is luckily an affluent city, there's still somebody needing help. Fortunately the Parmesans are used to rolling up their sleeves and expect nothing from somebody else.
I guess the funeral is a private ceremony, so I doubt the cameras will be allowed into the church. As for the Parma dwellers, I think they will be spending the weekend on the shores of nearby Versilia.
 
Nice you know the area so well but it appears the historic sense is lacking dear Tosca,even if I know where you're coming from,ie,know what you mean,it does fit better in the actual thread on the B-P's then in a,or any,funerary thread.I am sorry to hear about the disfunctional way the old B-P's behaved in the Dukedom,it is however of no consequence to neither the family nor the city now and one should bare in mind the death can not defend themselves.n'Importe pas,the funeral will go ahead as planned and fitting a Prince and late Duke and even the President of the Republic will attend thus paying respect to a form of rule prior to the present one.

The Ordine Costantiniano is in charge of the funeral and I do think there will be camera's allowed.
Immediatly after the interment in the crypt HRH Duke Carlos Javier will be inaugurated as the
rightfull successor to his fathers legacy as Duke of Parma.

And the airforce flying over didn't cost an extra bit at all,they,all airforce pilots everywhere,have to make
their flying hours each month in order to keep their permit so whether they fly here or around the corner
does not matter,it is all fitted in the same budget,so,no worries.

Moreover,Carlos Ugo as he is known in Italy,is the only descendant of a former Italian Royal House
who was able to build a bridge between his House and the Republic,and is acknowledged as such
in Parma.Different from the Savoya's who took over in 1861 and robbed all the B-P's had left,and
they had left all except a suitcase.All was plundered and taken to the Palaces in Rome.

Carlos Ugo came to Parma 15 years ago with the authentic wish to restore bonds.
The tradionally leftists of Parma frowned,but eventually gave in to Carlos as they
witnessed this modest kind man was genuine and thus won the hearts of the local
politicians,,business world and locals.A tour through South America to promote
Parma?Carlos Ugo joined in and travelled the continent for Parma much to the delight
of the community.

His children are afluent in Italian and are in Parma very often,as
often as they can to be exact,either there or staying with Aunt
Beatrix in Tavernelle,but Italy has their heart.

He build a bridge to the Republic and was respected for doing so,
he visited the President of the Republic at the Quirinale Palace,and
now,the President will honour the modest genuine man he too came
to respect and like.
 
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The Savoys took things to Rome? Carlos Hugo himself left the archives of his family to Spain, it's written here HRH Prince Carlos Hugo - Telegraph
Carlos Hugo is the only one who built bonds with the Republic? May I remember you that the Republic was born without civil war thanks to king Umberto II? And that Amedeo and Aimone of Savoy both served in the Italian army?

Saying bad things about others will not make people like more Carlos Hugo. The best strategy is to say good things about him.
 
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:previous: I wish the honour that is now been given to an unknown person, whose family was kicked off Parma back in 1859 following a revolution, would have been given to King Umberto, who really put all his effort in rebuilding a democratic country after the dictatorship and the civil war following the Armistice, and that paid for the mistakes his father had made.

The funeral in Parma looks like an 'escamotage' not to tread on the Spanish monarchy's toes. I'm not familiar with Carlos Hugo and his family history, but he sounded to be a difficult person as regard King Juan Carlos.
The Spanish flag that bedecked his coffin sounds inappropriate as well. They could have chosen the Parma flag instead. That sounds like as if they still consider this part of Italy as their colony. That's not very nice to a land that accepted to host your funeral and your remains. That's my opinion.

Queen Beatrix is quite popular in Italy, and her mother was even more. They all liked a Queen who didn't mind to wash her laundry and peg it out.
But, no offence intended, the Duke was totally unknown to most Parmesans, let alone the rest of the Italians.
 
Tg Parma today said that about one thousand Parmesans paid their respects to the Duke during his lying in state.

Anyone know if there will be a cortege tomorrow? It does seem unlikely, as the coffin is already in the church and they didn't talk about any cortege in the news.
 
ElisaR said:
Tg Parma today said that about one thousand Parmesans paid their respects to the Duke during his lying in stat
Click to expand...

I guess they did because they watched TG Parma, and read 'La Gazzetta'.
And that's just 1% of Parma population.
 
Tosca said:
:previous: I wish the honour that is now been given to an unknown person, whose family was kicked off Parma back in 1859 following a revolution, would have been given to King Umberto, who really put all his effort in rebuilding a democratic country after the dictatorship and the civil war following the Armistice, and that paid for the mistakes his father had made.

The funeral in Parma looks like an 'escamotage' not to tread on the Spanish monarchy's toes. I'm not familiar with Carlos Hugo and his family history, but he sounded to be a difficult person as regard King Juan Carlos.
The Spanish flag that bedecked his coffin sounds inappropriate as well. They could have chosen the Parma flag instead. That sounds like as if they still consider this part of Italy as their colony. That's not very nice to a land that accepted to host your funeral and your remains. That's my opinion.

Queen Beatrix is quite popular in Italy, and her mother was even more. They all liked a Queen who didn't mind to wash her laundry and peg it out.
But, no offence intended, the Duke was totally unknown to most Parmesans, let alone the rest of the Italians.
Click to expand...


The Steccata church is the Seat of the Ordine Costantiniano and it is them that take care of the funeral and everything as
the late Duke was their Grandmaster.When you are,as you say,not familiar with the Duke,then that showed.

No,Carlos Hugo wasn't difficult at all,and there is no,has not been,a difficulty between Don Juan Carlos and Carlos Hugo in decades.I have known the late Duke and I can assure you he was a kind,modest and warm man in every respect.That is how he won the local,and some National, Italian politicians up to President Napolitano as well,they appreciated him.The Spanish Flag?Historical origins,and anyone can put a national flag of a country on your coffin if you think it looks better,una ultima bella figura....

All I wrote in previous posts concerning the B-P's and Parma,was translated from the Gazetta di Parma as the chief editor
was so kind to tell what I translated.

As for dear Umberto,he wasn't a Monarch long enough to even get a chance to reform which is regrettable.And the referendum on the Monarchy was tempered with,a fraud,and he was illegally set aside I still believe.A pitty,Italy could very well still be a Monarchy if fraud was ruled out then.His final resting place should be in the Pantheon,should have been decades ago,what is "Rome" afraid of one wonders.
 
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lucien said:
.When you are,as you say,not familiar with the Duke,then that showed.
At least I recognize my faults, whilst some others don't, and don't go about the boards offending the other posters more or less covertly. And since I'm no longer a mod, I do not act as if I still were..

This said there's an interesting article on facebook written by a member of TRF. I hope she won't be mad at my if I post the link. Vero Marina?;)

Carlo Ugo di Borbone duca di Parma, un principe in basco rosso | Altezza Reale
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Lucien , Do you now if the other French Bourbon-Parme (Michel and others) will be there ?
On the cover of the french magazine Point de Vue of this week were N and T 's pre-wedding and I am sure next week their wedding
Inside an article about the Duke's up an down's life ..
Historicaly the death of the Duke, the history of his Family are more important than the ex-king of Greece son's wedding. But alas the royal magazine mentionned above is now a "people magazine"
They will sell more with a wedding in the sunny Greece that make people dream..
 
amedea said:
The Savoys took things to Rome? Carlos Hugo himself left the archives of his family to Spain, it's written here HRH Prince Carlos Hugo - Telegraph
Carlos Hugo is the only one who built bonds with the Republic? May I remember you that the Republic was born without civil war thanks to king Umberto II? And that Amedeo and Aimone of Savoy both served in the Italian army?
Saying bad things about others will not make people like more Carlos Hugo. The best strategy is to say good things about him.
Click to expand...


Good for Umberto.But,you missed my point entirely.Amedeo and Aimone huh?Great,mixing apples and stuff doesn't make a point either way.

The late Duke made a point in re-connecting with his heritage and all it involved,thus building a bridge between the Republic and his House,and succeeded.Not wellknown maybe,true,but true nonetheless.As we say here nothing ill on the death,and one would really had to delve deep to really find something worthwhile on Carlos Ugo.
Italy may shrug it´s shoulders for this Prince,Parma is not.

Ah yes,Tosca,I remember.Ciao bella!
 
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I don't understand what you want to say about HRH Prince Amedeo of Savoy and HRH Prince Aimone of Savoy who have always respected the wishes of HM King Umberto II.
Anyhow the Savoy Dinasty is quite linked with the Dinasty of Bourbon-Parme because of the marriage of HRH Princess Maria of Savoy (sister of HM King Umberto II) with a Prince of Bourbon-Parme.
 
maria-olivia said:
Lucien , Do you now if the other French Bourbon-Parme (Michel and others) will be there ?
On the cover of the french magazine Point de Vue of this week were N and T 's pre-wedding and I am sure next week their wedding
Inside an article about the Duke's up an down's life ..
Historicaly the death of the Duke, the history of his Family are more important than the ex-king of Greece son's wedding. But alas the royal magazine mentionned above is now a "people magazine"
They will sell more with a wedding in the sunny Greece that make people dream..
Click to expand...

Oh,yes,PdV,that commercial rag,full of commercials fit for todays sort of customers?An insult to the grey cells of people who have more knowledge on issues.Hmm.I ceased to get it,to much junk.Prince Michel?Maybe,after all Carlos Hugo was Head of the House,and he will
have to acknowledge Duke Carlos Javier as the new Head of the Royal House at the inauguration tomorrow..

Oh but ofcourse a wedding sells better,and this was Nikolaos after all,OK with me he and Tatiana got more coverage,and well deserved.
That's life.La vita.Oh and Cory,I didn't mean to say anything on either one,good boys but not relevant in this thread,that is what I
mean with mixing.They are Savoya's,and the only ones in the family that keep up with their station,ie ,not dance around...But no relevance
at all with the House of Bourbon-Parma in relation to the death of the late Duke.:)
 
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Which members of the different branches of the House of Burbon-Parma will attend tomorrow funeral?
 
ElisaR said:
Tg Parma today said that about one thousand Parmesans paid their respects to the Duke during his lying in state.

Anyone know if there will be a cortege tomorrow? It does seem unlikely, as the coffin is already in the church and they didn't talk about any cortege in the news.
Click to expand...

A cortege is too much maybe,but the coffin will be carried outside from the camera ardente it is in now at the Steccata,and the Knights of the Ordine Costatiniano di San Georgio will carry the coffin to the main entrance of the same church,a short but impressive cortege no doubt.

http://gpdhome.typepad.com/photos/irene_67/index.html

courtesy hja
 
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Lucien, do you know the list of the members of the Royal House of Burbon-Parma that will attent the funeral?
 
Cory said:
Lucien, do you know the list of the members of the Royal House of Burbon-Parma that will attent the funeral?
Click to expand...

:bourbonparma:

Besides the late Duke's children,their partners and three of his sisters,the Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg,
grandson of Prince Felix de Bourbon Parma,will be in attendance.It's a bit of a "dispersed" family,will have to
wait and see who will come and where sympathies are within the family but I expect most if not all of them
to come,moreover in light of the inauguration of the new Duke as Head of the House in the Steccata immediatly
after the funeral.
 
Even the descendants of Prince Rene will attend?
 
lucien said:
Good for Umberto.But,you missed my point entirely.Amedeo and Aimone huh?Great,mixing apples and stuff doesn't make a point either way.
Click to expand...

You were the first one to talk about Italian former ruling families. Everybody can see it reading the thread, that's why I wrote about them.
 
:bourbonparma:
With the Requiem beginning in a few minutes,here is what was earlyer this week:

PPE Agency

Besides almost all Members of the Dutch Royal Family,some of the official guestlist:

TRH The Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima representing HM The Queen of The Netherlands.

HRH Grand Duke Henri of Luxembourg
Fra Gherardo Simonetti,representing HE the Grandmaster of the Sovereign Order of Malta

HI&RH Archduchess Monica of Habsburg representing the House of Habsburg
HI&RH Archduke Martin of Habsburg

HI&RH Archduke Sigismund Habsburg Lorraine
S.A.S. Prince Löwenstein,representing the Imperial House of Germany

Dottore Marcello Becari,representing the Republic of San Marino
HE The Ambassador of The Netherlands in Italy,Herman Stoelinga
HE The Ambassador del Cile in Morocco,HE Marcia Covarrubias


S.A.S.Prince Isenburg,representing the German Nobility
S.A.S. Prince Diofebo Meli Lupi di Soragna,Grand Chancellor dell Ordine Costantiniano e di San Giorgio

HE Count Carlo Pietro Zanardi Landi de Veano,Grand Chancellor dell Ordine al Merito Militare di San Giogio di Lucca
 
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:bourbonparma:
Duke Carlos Hugo was interred in the simple habit of a Benedictine monk in the crypt of
the Steccata in the presence of his former wife Princess Irene,his children and their partners
and three sisters.

Immediatly after the interment the inauguration of Duke Carlos Javier has taken place as new Head of the
Royal House de Bourbon Parma.In his inaugural speech the new Duke emphasizes he accepts the Spanish
claims as still valid.No doubt we will be able to read the speech here soon.
 
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