Death of HRH The Duke of Parma 18 August 2010

[lucien]

In loving memory,scenes of a life:

ANP Beeldbank

courtesy ANP.

 

[THECLERK]

Dear Lucien,
Will it be irrespectful to ask about his " other" son?

 

[lucien]

Details?Yes,I would consider that disrespectfull at the time,yes,apart from this thread taking a hike in another direction again.

 

[amedea]

Imho Sixte Henri's statement is horrible: a few hours after Carlos Hugo's death, he's asking to Carlos Hugo's sons to disown the ideas and ideals of their father (and ideas and ideals they seem to go along with).

I agree with you. It was the right time to express sadness and to pray for his brother, but for the other part of the message he should have waited.
However it is also true that Carlos Xavier already made political statements, talking about democracy and pluralism. I don't know if it was before or after Sixte-Henry message, but I wonder if it should be read as an answer to him and traditionalist carlism.

 

[MAfan]

Sixte-Henri's statement was issued just a few hours after the Duke's death; I read it on wednesday afternoon at Sixte-Henri's website.
When did Carlos Xavier issue his political statements?

 

[Paty]

Sixte-Henri's statement was issued just a few hours after the Duke's death; I read it on wednesday afternoon at Sixte-Henri's website.
When did Carlos Xavier issue his political statements?

I think he made some statement to EFE (Spanish Press Agency) during the farewell in Barcelona on Thrusday 19.

 

[THECLERK]

Details?Yes,I would consider that disrespectfull at the time,yes,apart from this thread taking a hike in another direction again.

I did not want to be rude.
The matter is only , that as French, I am interested of descendant of Antoine de Bourbon, Henri IV, Louis XIII and Louis XIV , thus Philippe d'Anjou, Felipe V of Spain.

That is all and I withdraw my questio in order not to offense anyone.

 

[lucien]

I agree with you. It was the right time to express sadness and to pray for his brother, but for the other part of the message he should have waited.
However it is also true that Carlos Xavier already made political statements, talking about democracy and pluralism. I don't know if it was before or after Sixte-Henry message, but I wonder if it should be read as an answer to him and traditionalist carlism.

The Duke merely said he will continue to support a free and democratic Spain on thursday after the Memorial Mass in Barcelona.
But it should not be seen as a respons to that creature in Lignieres.At all.
We don't do politics I think,as a rule.

 

[lucien]

I did not want to be rude.
The matter is only , that as French, I am interested of descendant of Antoine de Bourbon, Henri IV, Louis XIII and Louis XIV , thus Philippe d'Anjou, Felipe V of Spain.

That is all and I withdraw my questio in order not to offense anyone.

Mercy.....

 

[Marengo]

Why is it tasteless to ask if the dukes illegitemate son will attend the funeral? As far as I read it seems the duke actually took care of him and he was part of the duke's life. I don't see the need why it should be swept under the carpet.

 

[nascarlucy]

What exactly is Carlist ideology? I've never heard of it until I read this thread. It sounds like it's some type of very strict monarchy where the King has absolute rule. Divine right of Kings perhaps? Something like that would never fly in today's world as people would be challenging that left and right.

 

[jonnydep]

What exactly is Carlist ideology? I've never heard of it until I read this thread. It sounds like it's some type of very strict monarchy where the King has absolute rule. Divine right of Kings perhaps? Something like that would never fly in today's world as people would be challenging that left and right.

Please read here
Carlism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nascarlucy]

My sympathies go out to Carlos Hugo and his family. From what I've read it seems like Carlos Hugo took a more liberal or moderate view on Carlism which would be in touch with the modern world.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

when and where will be the funeral held?
Thank you

 

[Fanvanmaxima]

Saturday 28st August, in Parma (Italy).

 

[lucien]

when and where will be the funeral held?
Thank you

The body will be flown to Piacenza,Italy tomorrow where it will lie in state till wednesday when it will be moved to Parma to lie in state there.In both cities the general public will be able to pay their last respects.The Funeral is on saterday august 28th at the Santa Maria
della Steccata in Parma.

 

[maria-olivia]

Lucien ,
Are the Duke's children paying for this different flies ( Barcelona , Amsterdam, Parma) and celebrations ? Was it the late Duke's will ?
On other forums they are sadly speaking about The new Duke's "non-royal " wedding. What is your opinion ? Thanks.

 

[lucien]

Lucien ,
Are the Duke's children paying for this different flies ( Barcelona , Amsterdam, Parma) and celebrations ? Was it the late Duke's will ?
On other forums they are sadly speaking about The new Duke's "non-royal " wedding. What is your opinion ? Thanks.

Hello Maria-Olivia.HM Queen Beatrix insists on picking up the tab for this,she knows the "peuple" who will complain over anything.
The Duke was flown here due to his bond with The Netherlands,and as the father of his partly dutch children and,by the wish of HM.
Surely all details have been discussed with the deceased long before.Other Forums,oh well,the quality always suffers over the quantity apparently but the fact that Annemarie isn't of the blood Royal herself doesn't make it a less Royal wedding.
We've had the same critics ad nauseam ever since the mid-sixties with the Fabiola's,Henrik's,Claus's and Sonja and later Silvia,and that were Reigning Houses.I do not even comment on that other then too boring,been there done that,and mostly all that sort of critics comes by people who are either pompous or otherwise not well in the head living in a dream world of lost absolute monarchies etc etc.No,Duchess Annemarie is the choice of love,and we prefer the choice of love over the choice of reason or raison d'Etat as it was once called.It is out of time and out of this world,except lala-land.

 

[amedea]

Lucien ,
Are the Duke's children paying for this different flies ( Barcelona , Amsterdam, Parma) and celebrations ? Was it the late Duke's will ?
On other forums they are sadly speaking about The new Duke's "non-royal " wedding. What is your opinion ? Thanks.

The expenses for the work needed in the vault in Parma will be paid by the Constantian Order Foundation. Not sure about the funeral's expenses.
Can you name some of those forums, Maria-Olivia? I would be interested in having a look there.

 

[lucien]

The body will be flown to Piacenza,Italy tomorrow where it will lie in state till wednesday when it will be moved to Parma to lie in state there.In both cities the general public will be able to pay their last respects.The Funeral is on saterday august 28th at the Santa Maria
della Steccata in Parma.

The body of the late Duke has just left Amsterdam Schiphol airport on board the KBX government aircraft.

 

[lucien]

The body of the late Duke has just left Amsterdam Schiphol airport on board the KBX government aircraft.

The body of the late Duke now lies in state in the Santa Maria di Campagna,Piacenza.

In S. Maria di Campagna la salma di Carlo Ugo di Borbone FOTO



The funeral of the late Duke will start at 12.15PM on saturday and the Knights of the Ordine Costantiniano
will be in charge of this solemn Holy Mass.

The Requiem will be conducted by four bishops,Enrico Solmi:bishop of Parma,Gianni Ambrosio:bishop of Piacenza,
Carlo Mazza:bishop of Fidenza and Adrianus van Luyn:bishop of Rotterdam,The Netherlands.

After the actual funeral the Inauguration of the new Duke of Parma will take place at the same church.The Dukes brother,
Prince Jaime,will grace his brother with the Collare dell'Ordine Costantiniano as a token he is the new Duke of Parma.

After this ceremony Duke Carlos Javier and Duchess Annemarie will gather with their family and the Knights
of the Order to receive the condolences by the guests.

 

[Tosca]

TV Parma's latest news programme has a report with an interview with the late Duke's son Carlo Saverio, who personally piloted the plane that brought his father's body back to Italy. Now I understand why there were two jet fighters flying over the Fiorenzuola area, when driving bcak home from France yesterday.

TVPARMA - SLIDESHOW - Tg Parma Click on the link next to the pic on your right hand side, which reads "Guarda l' ultima edizione del TG", and... be patient!

 

[maria-olivia]

Indeed, 11 minutes ! all his children were there and the some Knights of the Ordine Constantinio.
I wonder if people of Parma knew they had and have a Duke ?
I suppose, Tosca, that Tg Parma will show pics about the funerals.

 

[Tosca]

Surely TG Parma will air a report of the funeral, but I dubt there will be a full TV coverage of that event, since for the Parmesans themselves and all the other people living in the former Duchy the sovereign was, is,and still will be Marie Louise of Hapsburg, the second wife of Napoleon. In Italy the Bourbons conjure up with fiddling, bad government and other hateful things.

 

[lucien]

On the latter Tosca,that especially goes for the House Bourbon Two Sicilies which was a messy family,and less for the Bourbon Parma's.

 

[ElisaR]

In the news they said that the bishop of Piacenza won't celebrate the funeral because of other engagements.
They also said that some members of European royals families will attend the funeral, possibly including Queen Beatrix.

 

[amedea]

Is there a lot of media coverage about the duke in Parma and Piacenza? I couldn't find much on the internet. Actually I think this is a luck, since the army of the Italian republic welcoming the duke would surely, and quite fairly, arize a lot of criticism.
http://www.navecorsara.it/wp/2010/0...ne-la-lunga-e-costosa-elaborazione-del-lutto/

 

[lucien]

Oh I don't think so Amedea,it was a mere courtesy both to the late Duke and to his former sister-in-law HM The Queen.

TRH The Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima will attend the funeral of their uncle this saturday,as well as
other members of the Dutch RF,not sure who else yet,but not HM The Queen.

 

[amedea]

Is that normal to use the army for "courtesy" reasons?
If the city councils want to spend money on that, that's fine because it's also about their identity, their history and their prestige (creating bonds with well known people). But the army it's different, IMO.

 

[lucien]

No,it's not different,they are already payed anyway by the government ofcourse,and might as well do something worthwhile in light of history,yes,courtesy and good bonds between two nations and with a Queen who spends an awfull lot of time in Bella Italia,and ofcourse the,like you say,bond with the past as it was their ruling RF once,It's a mix of factors.They've only made "use" of the army at the airport,
and only a handfull of 'm.All further honours will be performed by the Constantinian Order.

Today the body of the late Duke will be taken to Parma to lie in state.

Not the bishop of Rotterdam,Adriaan van Luyn,will be co-celebrant the Requiem,but HE Mgr.Bär,former
bishop of Rotterdam and close friend to the dutch RF.He was also the one that led the first wedding of
the late Dukes daughter Margarita.