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  #61  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
To me they all looked nervous more than anything. Felipe could have looked a little less solemn. Letizia, IMO, always looks like a deer in the headlights at more formal occasions and this one was no exception. It also looks like she wasn't sure what to do in terms of neither crossing herself when Felipe did nor bowing to the altar. Hopefully with time she'll become more comfortable in these sorts of situations because this is her life from now on.

More time...she's had 13 years of experience one would hope by now that Letizia knows how to behave in public by now,it appeared by her cold clinical body language that she did not want to be there but had to out of duty,hence the sour puss on her face.
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  #62  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:41 PM
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I guess someone must have already explained that, but why was Alicia entitled "infanta de España" although she was neither the daughter of a Spanish monarch nor the daughter of an heir to the Spanish crown ?
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:44 PM
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I am old Fashion but a Mantilla should be great !
Are they banned since Letizia is Queen?
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  #64  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I guess someone must have already explained that, but why was Alicia entitled "infanta de España" although she was neither the daughter of a Spanish monarch nor the daughter of an heir to the Spanish crown ?
because she was the wife of spanish infante , Infante Alfonso of Spain, Prince of the Two Sicilies, Duke of Calabria .
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  #65  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:50 PM
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I guess someone must have already explained that, but why was Alicia entitled "infanta de España" although she was neither the daughter of a Spanish monarch nor the daughter of an heir to the Spanish crown ?
She was the wife of an Infante de España. The rules have changed, now Infante / Infanta is a title ad personam. Doña Alicia felt under the situation before the change. The new rule (in the 1980's) had no retro-active effect on existing situations, so she remained Infanta Doña Alicia.
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  #66  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:51 PM
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I am old Fashion but a Mantilla should be great !
Are they banned since Letizia is Queen?
It wasn't really a funeral Madame but more of a memorial Mass for King Felipes late great aunt. Letizia doesn't really really do tradition ,she's far too trendy for mantillas
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  #67  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:01 PM
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I guess someone must have already explained that, but why was Alicia entitled "infanta de España" although she was neither the daughter of a Spanish monarch nor the daughter of an heir to the Spanish crown ?
Her husband was actually the heir to the spanish crown for a few year. He became the Heir after the death of his mother Maria de las Meredes, Princess of Asturias in 1904 and remained so until the birth of Alfonso, Prince of Asturias in 1907.
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  #68  
Old 05-12-2017, 02:54 PM
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Infanta Alicia would have attended all the major Spanish Royal events over the years,one of her last appearances was at the Proclamation Ceremony for King Felipe VI in 2014.

Seated behind Infanta Pilar

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...psd8d1784b.jpg

Wedding of Felipe and Letizia in 2004

https://casarealespanola.files.wordp...4660.jpg?w=640



Spanish Royal Family meet Pope John Paul II in 2003

http://www.diariovasco.com/RC/201703...cia-borbon.jpg
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  #69  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:01 PM
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There was nothing wrong at all. The King and Doña Letizia have already greeted the Infantas before the Funeral Mass, while they were greeting the Bourbon-Deux Siciles awaiting for them outside the chapel.

There was a lavish ceremony outside at the courtyard, with great military ceremonial, witnessed by the royals. Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía arrived when the congregation was already inside and have not seen the Infantas. That is why greeted them. Too many conclusions are drawn from this fragment.
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The greeting beforehand has nothing to do with refusing to show respect to the new King by head bow in public, while showing the same respect to the old King.
given the delicate situation and the press reporting of the bad familiar relationships, wouldn't it have been wise to still curtsy inside (where cameras were present), regardless of whether they curtsied outside? it would certainly not have hurt, and would have helped to improve the already ill image of cristina and instill it with some more 'benefit of the doubt'.

and also... since elena and cristina hadn't seen JC and sofia, wouldn't a curtsy be due, rather than the kisses they exchanged?

all i know is that, in the pictures, letizia's body language says it all.

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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
It wasn't really a funeral Madame but more of a memorial Mass for King Felipes late great aunt. Letizia doesn't really really do tradition ,she's far too trendy for mantillas
she used to initially, when she first became princess of asturias. i guess now, being queen, she feels like she knows better and no one would complain to the queen as to whether she uses a mantilla or not.

shame, because i think they look very elegant.
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  #70  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:20 PM
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Nobody wears a mantilla for a funeral nowadays. Spain is not a Goya painting. Neither is the same country than during the 80-90s. Letizia would look rather out of place with one to say the least.
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  #71  
Old 05-12-2017, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There was nothing wrong at all. The King and Doña Letizia have already greeted the Infantas before the Funeral Mass, while they were greeting the Bourbon-Deux Siciles awaiting for them outside the chapel.

There was a lavish ceremony outside at the courtyard, with great military ceremonial, witnessed by the royals. Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía arrived when the congregation was already inside and have not seen the Infantas. That is why greeted them. Too many conclusions are drawn from this fragment.
Thank you so much for clarifying what happened before the Funeral Mass.
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  #72  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:14 PM
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Yes if Felipe and Letizia met the others outside, there is no rudeness here. Well in the looks yes, but not lack of bows. As we see with Elizabeth, they are only expected to bow the first time they see the Monarchs that day.

As for mantilla, I don't see how it is lack of respect for tradition. As I see, no other women are wearing one. And it doesn't seem to be the trend anymore. I highly doubt Sofia didn't wear one simply as Letizia didn't.
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  #73  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
More time...she's had 13 years of experience one would hope by now that Letizia knows how to behave in public by now,it appeared by her cold clinical body language that she did not want to be there but had to out of duty,hence the sour puss on her face.
I was thinking more that she's been Queen Consort for a relatively short period of time, but you're right, of course, she's been a senior royal for a long time now.
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  #74  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:22 AM
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It is also not clear to me if curtsies are required to a former King and Queen. And the word "required" is not even correct because révérences are and remain optional. For Los Reyes a handshake is equally perfect. Especially curtsying to Doña Letizia feels awkward. She is as "royal" as every Spaniard around the corner. It is not for nothing that many monarchies have abandoned the whole practice.
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  #75  
Old 05-13-2017, 06:10 AM
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I think I saw the Duke of Alba present in the Capilla Real he was seated behind the Duke of Soria(husband of Infanta Margarita).
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  #76  
Old 05-13-2017, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
There was nothing wrong at all. The King and Doña Letizia have already greeted the Infantas before the Funeral Mass, while they were greeting the Bourbon-Deux Siciles awaiting for them outside the chapel.

There was a lavish ceremony outside at the courtyard, with great military ceremonial, witnessed by the royals. Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía arrived when the congregation was already inside and have not seen the Infantas. That is why greeted them. Too many conclusions are drawn from this fragment.
Duc are there any photos or video footage of the outside ceremony?
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  #77  
Old 05-13-2017, 06:36 AM
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I have not found pictures from the ceremony but a fellow poster on another forum gave an eye-witness report: The Franco-Iberian Royals Message Board: Re: Funeral for Infanta Alicia
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  #78  
Old 05-13-2017, 06:43 AM
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From that eye witness reporter it seems the cream of the Spanish nobility were present at the Memorial Mass?
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:32 AM
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That was a nice overview indeed, but I see no mention of an earlier greeting in the linked post or image galleries.

I suppose that with ' prince Charles of Bourbon-Parma, prince Charles-Emmanuel? The 3rd ' king of Spain' does not seem to be present to honour this princess of his house.
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  #80  
Old 05-13-2017, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
She was the wife of an Infante de España. The rules have changed, now Infante / Infanta is a title ad personam. Doña Alicia felt under the situation before the change. The new rule (in the 1980's) had no retro-active effect on existing situations, so she remained Infanta Doña Alicia.

The decree of 1987 may not have been retroactive, but it affected existing situations inasmuch as it stripped particular individuals (e.g. Gonzalo de Borbón y Dampierre) of the Spanish form of address of Alteza Real (article 3, 3c).

Quote:
Article 3
1. The Kings sons and daughters not possessing the Dignity of Prince or Princess of the Asturias, as well as the children of the latter Prince or Princess, shall be Infantes or Infantas of Spain, respectively, and shall be addressed as Your Royal Highness. Their spouses, whilst they continue being so or stay a widower or widow, shall be entitled to the form of address and honours The King, as a gracious decision, may grant them, pursuant to the powers vested upon Him by paragraph f) of Article 62 of the Constitution.

2. Likewise, The King may grant the dignity of Infante or Infanta and the form of address of Your Royal Highness to those persons he shall deem fit of such a grace given the exceptional circumstances that concur.

3. Except as provided in the present Article and the preceding one hereof, and save as provided in Article 5 hereof for members of the Regency, no person whatsoever may:

a. Use the title of Prince or Princess of the Asturias or employ any other title whatsoever traditionally attached to the Successor to the Crown of Spain;
b. Titularse Infante de España.
c. Receive the forms of address and honours pertaining to the Dignities mentioned in paragraphs a) and b) above.

[...]

Third

Those members of the family of His Majesty The King, Juan Carlos I of Bourbon, who currently have been recognised the use of a peerage pertaining to the Royal Family and to the form of address of Your Royal Highness may conserve them for life, but neither their spouses nor their children shall be so entitled.
However, I think Infanta Alicia's title was a title of courtesy. Her marriage transpired when Spain was a republic in which noble titles were disallowed, and I have been unable to locate any decree legalizing the title.
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