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  #161  
Old 09-19-2009, 08:59 AM
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None of Vladimir's male cousins who were dynasts married equally under the Pauline Laws. Even if we accept that Vladimir's marriage to Leonida was not equal, the throne would have passed outside the surviving male lines through the female line, either through his sisters, who all married equally to German royals, or his aunt, Grand Duchess Elena Vladimirovna, to her grandson, Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, the eldest Orthodox issue of her eldest daughter, Princess Olga of Greece & Denmark, after his death in 1992.

Since Vladimir was unmarried when his father, Grand Duke Cyril died, there is no question of his status as Head of the Imperial House. The question is whether he could transmit the rights to his daughter, Maria Vladimirovna, given the question of his marriage's compliance under the Pauline Laws.
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  #162  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:42 AM
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Hello everybody, I have a few questions if any of you would be willing to answer.

[1] If the Russian monarchy were to be restored, would the monarch be an Emperor or king?

[2] Today the Georgian Royal house of Mukhrani is active in Georgia, which is now a Sovereign state. Would this recent development add credibility to those who claim the GD's parents marriage was equal? Presumably a rule or two would have to be applied retroactively

[3] In this thread people have implied that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's son, Grand Duke George Mikhailovich is a Prussian prince and not entitled to a Russian title. What's the reasoning behind this (This questions assumes that the GD's parents marriage was equal)?

[4] Some people have named Paul Ilyinsky as the senior most living Romanov up until his death, what's the reasoning behind this?
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  #163  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:54 AM
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Ilyinski? Could he be the descendant of Dmitri pavlovich, who chose surname Ilyinski in exiel (after estate Illinskoye near moscow, where he was born)
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  #164  
Old 09-23-2009, 08:03 AM
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Paul Ilyinsly was the only son of Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovic (one the killers of Rasputin) and his wife Audrey Emery. He has (always) lived in the USA, he was the major of the city where he lived, and has left 4 children.
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  #165  
Old 09-23-2009, 02:40 PM
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Paul Ilyinsly was the only son of Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovic (one the killers of Rasputin) and his wife Audrey Emery. He has (always) lived in the USA, he was the major of the city where he lived, and has left 4 children.
And the marriage was unequal with Audrey Emery, an American Heiress. So, that blows his claim. THough I don't think he ever cared to claim anything.
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  #166  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:53 PM
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And the marriage was unequal with Audrey Emery, an American Heiress. So, that blows his claim. THough I don't think he ever cared to claim anything.
Does the question of equal marriage really much matter any more in this day and age... when the heir to a certain European throne can now marry a woman who has, shall we say, a "history" and a child from a previous relationship... without ever losing his position in line in the succession?

I would be far more concerned in the case of one's succession in the Russian Imperial line about whether or not the marriage of his parents had been conducted in the Orthodox Church.
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  #167  
Old 09-23-2009, 06:12 PM
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Do you know if GD Dmitry's and Audrey Emery's was John? I don't remember reading if it were in GDMarie, the youngers, auto bio. Or the other books I've read on it.
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  #168  
Old 09-23-2009, 06:25 PM
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Hello everybody, I have a few questions if any of you would be willing to answer.
Welcome to the forum VsriCo!


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[1] If the Russian monarchy were to be restored, would the monarch be an Emperor or king?
If the Monarchy in Russia were reinstated, it would be an Empire. The contemporary Russia is a Federation that consists of many republics, regions and parts: it is an Empire in all but name. The Monarch could go by the title ‘Emperor’ or ‘Tsar’ or both.

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[2] Today the Georgian Royal house of Mukhrani is active in Georgia, which is now a Sovereign state. Would this recent development add credibility to those who claim the GD's parents marriage was equal? Presumably a rule or two would have to be applied retroactively
Even if the Georgian Monarchy is restored tomorrow, that would affect the current living members only; it would have no effect in retrospective.
When Georgia was merged into Russian Empire, the Georgian Royals acquired the status of Russian nobility, not Royalty. Although the ancestors of Grand Duchess Leonida were Kings of Georgia and Armenia, the Bagrations were no long a Reigning House. The Mukhrani branch to which Princess Leonida belongs to, hadn’t reigned in any part of Georgia for centuries before Georgia became part of the Empire.

Another side of the argument regarding the legality of Maria Vladimirovna's parents' marriage is the fact that Grand Duke Vladimir was the (most widely) accepted Head of the Imperial House: as such, he had the right to decide whether a marriage of any member of the Family (including his) was equal or morganatic: he proclaimed his marriage to be equal.
Also, two years before his marriage to Princess Leonida (and according to most sources, before they even met), Grand Duke Vladimir issued the so-called Act of 1946, which confirmed the Royal (as opposed to noble) status of the House of Bagration. This was done upon request of Prince Fernando of Bavaria and Bourbon, Infante of Spain, whose daughter, Infanta Mercedes, was set to marry Prince Iraklij (Princess Leonida's brother): Prince Fernando was worried that the marriage would be considered unequal (morganatic), so Grand Duke Vladimir issued his Act.

If the marriage of Grand Duke Vladimir and Princess Leonida is accepted as equal and at the same time, marriages of all other Romanov dynasts is considered morganatic, then Maria Vladimirovna could be considered the rightful Pretender to the Throne, even despite the Pauline Law. Article 30 of the Imperial Succession Laws stipulates that should there be no more male dynasts (not Romanovs - Romanov dynasts), then the rights of succession are transferred to the female line of the last Reigning Monarch.
Depending on many complicated points, it could be either Maria Vladimirovna or Prince Nicholas Romanovich (the other pretender to the Headship of the Imperial House and President of the Romanov Family Association).

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[3] In this thread people have implied that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's son, Grand Duke George Mikhailovich is a Prussian prince and not entitled to a Russian title. What's the reasoning behind this (This questions assumes that the GD's parents marriage was equal)?
Prince George belongs to the House of Hohenzollern, the house of his father, Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia. Grand Duke Vladimir knew perfectly well that his daughter's (and her son's) shaky claims to the Headship of the Imperial House would weaken even further because George was a Prussian (German) Prince, so he sought to legally change the baby's name to Romanov: thus, George was registered in French registry as Grand Duke George of Russia. It is often said that this decision eventually led to separation and divorce of Prince Franz Wilhelm and Maria Vladimirovna. Prince Franz Wilhelm never acknowledged the name changed: shortly after the separation, he gave an interview where he disputed the name change and showed Prince George's German passport (issued prior to the French one), where the boy was registered as Prince George of Prussia.

Grand Duke Vladimir may have proclaimed that Prince George belongs to the House of Romanov but it is arguable at best whether he had the right to do so. As for the name change, the boy's surname could have been changed to anything they wished: that didn't make him any more Romanov.


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[4] Some people have named Paul Ilyinsky as the senior most living Romanov up until his death, what's the reasoning behind this?
I guess Prince Paul could have been considered the senior most living male Romanov after Grand Duke Vladimir’s death in 1992. He also succeeded the Grand Duke as Head of the House of Holstein-Gottorp (although this is arguable). However, although Prince Paul was perhaps the senior most living Romanov, he was certainly not the senior most dynast: Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich (first cousin of Prince Dmitri - Paul's father) elevated Grand Duke Dmitri's morganatic wife Audrey Emery and their descendants to Russian Knyaz rank (equivalent of 'prince') as a nobility and non-dynastical rank) and thus a new branch of Romanovs, the Romanovsky-Ilyinsky, was created.

Theoretically, following Grand Duke Vladimir's death, Prince Paul could have been one of the contenders to the Headship of the Imperial House (if we exclude Maria Vladimirovna because of Pauline Law or other reasons): indeed, following the collapse of the USSR, a private delegation of Russian Monarchists approached Prince Paul with request to come and 'claim the Russian Throne' (an offer he denied). However, the morganatic marriage of his parents, as well as his non-dynast status effectively excluded him from any sort of Line to the Succession.

The accepted Heads (and dynasts) of the different Romanov branches were:
1) Grand Duke Vladimir
2) Prince Vsevolod Ioannovich - the Konstantinovichi branch. After Prince Vsevolod's death in 1973, the male line of Konstantinovichi branch of the Romanov House died out.
3) Prince Roman Petrovich - the Nikolaevichi branch. His son, Prince Nicholas Romanovich, succeeded to his claims. Prince Nicholas's heir is his brother, Prince Dimitri. Their nephew, Prince Rostislav, is expected to succeed to their claims.
4) Prince Andrei Alexandrovich - the Mihailovichi branch. After his death in 1981, the Mihailovichi line was continued in his son, Prince Andrew (whose Godparents included Edward VIII of the UK). Prince Andrew has legitimate male children and grandchildren. However, since his marriage and that of his children were morganatic, they are not dynasts.

In 1969, nearly all Romanov dynasts (excluding Grand Duke Vladimir but including all other Heads of the Romanov branches) wrote a letter to Grand Duke Vladimir where they proclaimed his marriage to Princess Leonida unequal and maintained that his wife could have no higher status than the wives of the other Romanov Princes / dynasts.
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  #169  
Old 09-23-2009, 08:39 PM
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The Georgian royal family was not reigning at the time of Vladimir's marriage nor was Leonida of the senior line branch that had ruled Georgia. There is no question whatsovever this marriage did not comply with the Pauline Laws.

As the de-jure Tsar and Head of the Imperial House, Vladimir declared his marriage equal and compliant. The real problem is if the Tsar declares one marriage to the Nobility as valid and dynastic, it is hard to argue other dynasts who also married Russian noblility and had children, also do not hold similar rights. Given equality in law on that point, Maria Vladimirovna would have no better claim to the throne than her other cousins who are also descended from marriages of dynasts to female Russian nobility.

The reality is Vladimir's rights died with him in 1992, the male line became extinct and the throne would have passed to the Vladimirovchi female line through HIH Grand Duchess Elena Vladimirovna's marriage to HRH Prince Nicholas of Greece & Denmark. Her Yugoslavian grandchildren, the issue of HRH Princess Olga and HRH Prince Paul of Yugoslavia, would likely have the strongest claim to the throne.

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Originally Posted by Marsel View Post
In 1969, nearly all Romanov dynasts (excluding Grand Duke Vladimir but including all other Heads of the Romanov branches) wrote a letter to Grand Duke Vladimir where they proclaimed his marriage to Princess Leonida unequal and maintained that his wife could have no higher status than the wives of the other Romanov Princes / dynasts.
They also made it clear in their letter they did not recognize Vladimir as holding the rank and title of Grand Duke of Russia, stating he was only entitled to the rank and style of HH Prince of Russia as the great-grandson of Alexander II in the male line (Alexander II > Grand Duke Vladimir > Grand Duke Cyril > Prince Vladimir).

And his wife and daughter, being morganatic, were merely Romanovskaya princesses with the style of Serene Highness, not Grand Duchesses.
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  #170  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Marsel View Post
Welcome to the forum VsriCo!
Thank you.
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Even if the Georgian Monarchy is restored tomorrow, that would affect the current living members only; it would have no effect in retrospective.
When Georgia was merged into Russian Empire, the Georgian Royals acquired the status of Russian nobility, not Royalty. Although the ancestors of Grand Duchess Leonida were Kings of Georgia and Armenia, the Bagrations were no long a Reigning House. The Mukhrani branch to which Princess Leonida belongs to, hadn’t reigned in any part of Georgia for centuries before Georgia became part of the Empire.

Another side of the argument regarding the legality of Maria Vladimirovna's parents' marriage is the fact that Grand Duke Vladimir was the (most widely) accepted Head of the Imperial House: as such, he had the right to decide whether a marriage of any member of the Family (including his) was equal or morganatic: he proclaimed his marriage to be equal.
Also, two years before his marriage to Princess Leonida (and according to most sources, before they even met), Grand Duke Vladimir issued the so-called Act of 1946, which confirmed the Royal (as opposed to noble) status of the House of Bagration. This was done upon request of Prince Fernando of Bavaria and Bourbon, Infante of Spain, whose daughter, Infanta Mercedes, was set to marry Prince Iraklij (Princess Leonida's brother): Prince Fernando was worried that the marriage would be considered unequal (morganatic), so Grand Duke Vladimir issued his Act.

If the marriage of Grand Duke Vladimir and Princess Leonida is accepted as equal and at the same time, marriages of all other Romanov dynasts is considered morganatic, then Maria Vladimirovna could be considered the rightful Pretender to the Throne, even despite the Pauline Law. Article 30 of the Imperial Succession Laws stipulates that should there be no more male dynasts (not Romanovs - Romanov dynasts), then the rights of succession are transferred to the female line of the last Reigning Monarch.
Depending on many complicated points, it could be either Maria Vladimirovna or Prince Nicholas Romanovich (the other pretender to the Headship of the Imperial House and President of the Romanov Family Association).
Very interesting points. However, given that the Treaty of Georgievsk guaranteed the continuation of the Georgian monarchy albeit as a protectorate of Russia, would this not be legally bindedto the acknowledgement of the Georgian house as royalty, not nobility? Branchg has stated in previous posts in this thread that the Georgian Royal House was stated as nobility in a Russia book of some sort of the time which listed all nobility within the empire, but does that actually have any basis given the treaty of Georgievsk?
Quote:
Prince George belongs to the House of Hohenzollern, the house of his father, Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia. Grand Duke Vladimir knew perfectly well that his daughter's (and her son's) shaky claims to the Headship of the Imperial House would weaken even further because George was a Prussian (German) Prince, so he sought to legally change the baby's name to Romanov: thus, George was registered in French registry as Grand Duke George of Russia. It is often said that this decision eventually led to separation and divorce of Prince Franz Wilhelm and Maria Vladimirovna. Prince Franz Wilhelm never acknowledged the name changed: shortly after the separation, he gave an interview where he disputed the name change and showed Prince George's German passport (issued prior to the French one), where the boy was registered as Prince George of Prussia.

Grand Duke Vladimir may have proclaimed that Prince George belongs to the House of Romanov but it is arguable at best whether he had the right to do so. As for the name change, the boy's surname could have been changed to anything they wished: that didn't make him any more Romanov.
I see. But GD Maria's husband was proclaimed a GD of Russia at the time of their sons birth by her father, by doing so doesn't that eliminate any claim by his father that he is a Prussian prince. I mean, the Prince of Wales's father is a greek prince, but he's still recognised as the heir to his mother. Does this have something to do with the laws of the Romanov dynasty?

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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
The Georgian royal family was not reigning at the time of Vladimir's marriage nor was Leonida of the senior line branch that had ruled Georgia. There is no question whatsovever this marriage did not comply with the Pauline Laws.

As the de-jure Tsar and Head of the Imperial House, Vladimir declared his marriage equal and compliant. The real problem is if the Tsar declares one marriage to the Nobility as valid and dynastic, it is hard to argue other dynasts who also married Russian noblility and had children, also do not hold similar rights. Given equality in law on that point, Maria Vladimirovna would have no better claim to the throne than her other cousins who are also descended from marriages of dynasts to female Russian nobility.

The reality is Vladimir's rights died with him in 1992, the male line became extinct and the throne would have passed to the Vladimirovchi female line through HIH Grand Duchess Elena Vladimirovna's marriage to HRH Prince Nicholas of Greece & Denmark. Her Yugoslavian grandchildren, the issue of HRH Princess Olga and HRH Prince Paul of Yugoslavia, would likely have the strongest claim to the throne.
Thanks for clarifying. Getting into specifics though, if he proclaimed his own marriage equal does this necessarily imply that all others are equal? given that they would have to be approved by GD vladimir himself (which i'm certain a significant amount did not). Also, are the other claimants to to the throne affected by the decision of whether or not GD maria's mother family was royal? or is it only GD Maria who is affected by this decision?

Thanks everyone for your details answers
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  #171  
Old 09-24-2009, 08:46 AM
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From a practical point of view, the surviving dynasts and their descendants eventually accepted there was no possiblity of returning to Russia under the Soviets, so they married without permission. No one foresaw the end of Communism and a warming of relations between the Russian Federation and the Imperial House, so the matter was of little importance at the time.

There's no question part of this controversy is rooted in position and jockeying for a possible throne in the future. Regardless of the marriage question, both Maria Vladimirovna and the Nichaelovichi line have a strong case for being next-in-line in the event a restoration of the Romanovs actually happened. But whether they would actually return to Russia officially recognized is another matter altogether.
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  #172  
Old 09-24-2009, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vsriCo View Post
Very interesting points. However, given that the Treaty of Georgievsk guaranteed the continuation of the Georgian monarchy albeit as a protectorate of Russia, would this not be legally bindedto the acknowledgement of the Georgian house as royalty, not nobility? Branchg has stated in previous posts in this thread that the Georgian Royal House was stated as nobility in a Russia book of some sort of the time which listed all nobility within the empire, but does that actually have any basis given the treaty of Georgievsk?
That's a very good question about the Treaty of Georgievsk: I have often wondered why Vladimir Kyrillovich didn’t cite that Treaty when he recognized the Bagration-Mukhrani's Royal status (he instead cited the agnatic seniority of the branch's descent from Georgian Kings).

The question of the Treaty is a rather complex one.
1) First of all, it can be argued that both sides violated the conditions of the Treaty before Georgia's annexation. King Iraklij (or Erekle) started negotiations with the Turkish side, which was explicitly forbidden in one of the Articles of the Treaty. On the other hand, Russians failed to come to the assistance of Georgians during the Persian invasion, which was guaranteed in another Article.
Another breach could be viewed in the fact that in 1799, George XII proclaimed his eldest son, Tsarevich David, his official Heir Apparent. According to the Articles of the Treaty, the succession to the Throne was a more or less internal issue, however the Russian Monarch should have been notified of and give his consent to the official appointment of the Heir Apparent prior to the announcement.
There were other, numerous issues with the Treaty, enough to consider it void.

2) It is true that one of the Articles of Treaty did guarantee the Georgian Throne to the direct descendants of Erekle II. However, another article adds a bit of confusion, for it said that the Georgian nobles would enjoy only the same privileges and advantages granted to the Russian nobility: the list of the families that were entitles to the noble (not Royal) status started with the Mukhrani branch of Bagrations. Therefore, it was apparent from the Treaty that the Mukhrani branch (which hadn't reigned for centuries) was no longer regarded as Royal but merely Noble.
For the same reason, Grand Duke Vladimir's marriage to Princess Leonida couldn't be considered equal: one of the Laws regulating the marriages of the members of the Imperial Family specifically states the bride or groom-to-be has to come from "from Regnant or Royal House". Mukhrani branch didn't qualify under either condition.

3) The Bagrations (all of them) became Russian nobility by the Act of 1833: some of the Bagrations thus kept their 'Royal' status for over 30 years. The demotion to nobility in May of 1833 was a direct result of the uprising in Georgia led by some Bagrations.
It should also be noted that the Bagrations acknowledged the demotion: various members of the family, including Tsarevich David Bagrationi, accepted appointments that would have not been befitting members of a Royal House and were contrary to any dynastic claims.

4) In 1911, Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna Romanova married Prince Constantine Bagration-Muhransky (Leonida's great uncle) and Nicholas II officially proclaimed the marriage was morganatic and non-dynastical: if that marriage was morganatic, why should Grand Duke Vladimir’s marriage to a Bagration Princess from the same dynasty be considered equal? Moreover, the marriage of Leonida's parents was morganatic as well and was not approved by her grandfather, Prince Alexander Bagration of Mukhrani.

Quote:
I see. But GD Maria's husband was proclaimed a GD of Russia at the time of their sons birth by her father, by doing so doesn't that eliminate any claim by his father that he is a Prussian prince. I mean, the Prince of Wales's father is a greek prince, but he's still recognised as the heir to his mother. Does this have something to do with the laws of the Romanov dynasty?
Prince Philip's situation was different. Queen Elizabeth, as a Queen Regnant (and after consultations with and approval of the Prime Minister, the Council and other members of the Royal Family) had the right and authority to officially declare that she and her children and the descendants of those children will be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor. In 1960, an Order-in-Council was issued that stated that the surname of all male-line descendants of the Queen and Prince Philip who are not styled Royal Highness and do not have the titles of Princes and Princesses, was to be Mountbatten-Windsor: in practice, Prince Charles, Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward have all used Mountbatten-Windsor in their private lives.

Grand Duke Vladimir was not a Reigning Monarch. His claims to the Headship of the House were disputed. He had no authority or right to make a Prussian Royal a Russian Prince or to change the dynasty his grandson belonged to (he could and did change the name and surname - but Prince George could have changed his name to Windsor, which wouldn't make him a British Prince any more than he is a Russian one). To be able to legally do all of the above, Grand Duke Vladimir had to be the undisputed Head of the House, had to seek and be granted the approval of the State Council (which obviously didn't exist at the time) and/or the Duma (which didn’t exist as well). Of course, if he were an Emperor and Autocrat of Russia, he could have avoided both the Council and Duma, but he wasn't.

Quote:
Thanks for clarifying. Getting into specifics though, if he proclaimed his own marriage equal does this necessarily imply that all others are equal? given that they would have to be approved by GD vladimir himself (which i'm certain a significant amount did not). Also, are the other claimants to to the throne affected by the decision of whether or not GD maria's mother family was royal? or is it only GD Maria who is affected by this decision?
That's a difficult question. Assuming he had the authority to proclaim his marriage to a noblewoman equal, that does suggest (as branchg noted) it would be quite stupid to maintain that relatives, who had married woman of equally noble origin, had conducted morganatic marriages. That doesn't mean those marriages were automatically equal, although logically and morally, they should have been.
There is a number of other Romanovs who (or, more specifically, whose ancestors) had married Bagrations, or people of comparable status, and lost their place in the line of the succession.
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  #173  
Old 09-24-2009, 09:46 PM
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Moreover, the marriage of Leonida's parents was morganatic as well and was not approved by her grandfather, Prince Alexander Bagration of Mukhrani.
Do you know of any primary sources that prove this allegation? I have never come across a genealogy or book on the subject (not that there are a ton of them!) that included information to that effect.

I have read the claim online, but that is an altogether different thing from seeing an actual document that proves that the marriage of Prince George Alexandrovitch Bagration-Moukhransky and Elena Sigismonovna Zlotnicky did not receive the permission of the bridegroom's father.

What would be the grounds for denying approval to the marriage? The bride's mother was a Princess Eristov-Ksansky (with two lines of descent from King Irakly II of Georgia). Surely that was good enough for a "mere" Bagration-Moukhransky. There seems to be no reason to believe that the bride received anything but the whole-hearted approval of the parents of Prince George. The pedigree of Prince George's mother was not nearly that glittering.
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  #174  
Old 09-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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Thanks for clarifying. Getting into specifics though, if he proclaimed his own marriage equal does this necessarily imply that all others are equal? given that they would have to be approved by GD vladimir himself (which i'm certain a significant amount did not). Also, are the other claimants to to the throne affected by the decision of whether or not GD maria's mother family was royal? or is it only GD Maria who is affected by this decision?

Thanks everyone for your details answers
Grand Duke Vladimir only ruled that the Bagrations were equal. The only other Romanov who married a Bagration was, as has been pointed out, Princess Tatiana Konstantinovna of Russia. Neither of Princess Tatiana's children left issue. Thus, only Grand Duchess Maria is affected by the decision.

And, as you mention, many Romanovs did not care to seek the approval of the Head of the Imperial House (first Grand Duke Kyrill and then Grand Duke Vladimir) for their marriages, and therefore the resulting descendants of those unions have no dynastic rights whatsoever (though they like to pretend otherwise, obviously).
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  #175  
Old 09-28-2009, 07:56 PM
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By default, Maria Vladimirovna is the only surviving dynast by virtue of being her father's successor and having made an equal marriage under the Pauline Law. Although we can argue forever if she is the issue of an equal marriage, the fact is Vladimir alone had the right to determine if any marriage was equal or not as Head of the Imperial House. Once his decision was made, the matter was closed.

The remaining descendants are morganatic and without title or styles as they married without permission, a decision that automatically results in the loss of any rights under the Pauline Law. The senior male morganaut, Dimitri Iliynsky, was born a U.S. citizen and is without title as Americans are constitutionally forbidden from having any titles.

Maria is unquestionably the Head of the Imperial House of Romanov.
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  #176  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:21 AM
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Well put. It really is an incredibly complex/confusing situation. Are any other dynasties in a similar situation or have something similar to the Pauline law?
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  #177  
Old 09-30-2009, 08:40 AM
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All of the royal houses have their own dynastic laws regarding marriages and being in union with various faiths. The Imperial House is still restrictive about morganatic marriages, even though most of the other European houses are not.
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  #178  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
All of the royal houses have their own dynastic laws regarding marriages and being in union with various faiths. The Imperial House is still restrictive about morganatic marriages, even though most of the other European houses are not.
In light of the current situation they didn't do themselves any favours. With regards to the last Emperor's sisters did they and their children follow house rules? and are there any valid dynasts from any of these women?
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  #179  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:52 AM
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Grand Duchess Xenia married equally and her children were all dynasts. They did not marry equally and her grandchildren are morganatic.
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  #180  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:33 PM
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Grand Duchess Xenia married equally and her children were all dynasts. They did not marry equally and her grandchildren are morganatic.
Exactly. And GD Nicholas, now his parents were equal? I can't remember.
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