Who is the Head of the Imperial Family?

[genegirl99]

Umm, wasn't Cyril dead when Vladimir married Leonida?

[BeatrixFan]

You're quite right, he was, my mistake. However, that actually makes the case even stronger because when Cyril died and Vladimir became Head of the House (let's remember that actually connotates Tsar of all the Russias) he could have ripped every dynastic law in the book and been quite entitled to do so. If Leonida wasn't equal, he could even have made her so before their marriage. Monarchs often change things to suit the time or their own ends. Look at George V and the surname swap during the First World War.

[genegirl99]

Actually there were a few posts that I noticed saying that.

I thought as one of the conditions for marrying Maria, GD Vladimir had to renounce the rights of any children he had with her, but retained his rights to the throne...

Or maybe I'm trying to stir up trouble? LOL

[BeatrixFan]

I assume you mean Leonida? I doubt very much Vladimir would have agreed to that. Besides, the royal house of Bagration had been recognised by Russia in 1783 with the Treaty of Georgievsk and that was never repealed, so Leonida was equal to Vladimir and the question of their children having succession rights was really not an issue.

[branchg]

The Gruzinsky line of the Bagrids was the reigning branch over Georgia, not the Moukhransky, which was a cadet line. The Treaty only recognized the royal status of the reigning King and his heir, not the other branches. In 1800, Paul revoked the Treaty and annexed Georgia.

Vladimir recognized Prince George of Moukhrani in 1946 as being of royal rank in a published decree. At that time, there was doubt whether there were surviving descendants of the Gruzinsky still alive in Georgia, especially in light of Stalin's reign of terror. He recognized the Moukhrani branch as the surviving branch of the Georgian royal house, which was his right as de-jure Tsar.

Vladimir was already the Head of the Imperial House at the time of his marriage to Leonida and declared her of equal rank.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by genegirl99

Actually there were a few posts that I noticed saying that.

I thought as one of the conditions for marrying Maria, GD Vladimir had to renounce the rights of any children he had with her, but retained his rights to the throne...

Or maybe I'm trying to stir up trouble? LOL

Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich did not renounce his rights to the throne with his marriage to Marie. Nor was he the only Grand Duke who married a royal princess that retained her faith. These requirements were only for the monarch and heir to the throne.

And his father, Alexander II, married morganatically after the death of Empress Marie. His mother, Princess Marie of Hesse-Darmstadt, was illegitimate, but recognized by Louis II as his own child.

[BeatrixFan]

Originally Posted by branchg

The Gruzinsky line of the Bagrids was the reigning branch over Georgia, not the Moukhransky, which was a cadet line. The Treaty only recognized the royal status of the reigning King and his heir, not the other branches. In 1800, Paul revoked the Treaty and annexed Georgia.

Vladimir recognized Prince George of Moukhrani in 1946 as being of royal rank in a published decree. At that time, there was doubt whether there were surviving descendants of the Gruzinsky still alive in Georgia, especially in light of Stalin's reign of terror. He recognized the Moukhrani branch as the surviving branch of the Georgian royal house, which was his right as de-jure Tsar.

Vladimir was already the Head of the Imperial House at the time of his marriage to Leonida and declared her of equal rank.

Thanks for this branchg! So yep, Leonida was equal because Vladimir made her so, thus Maria is of equal birth.

[Warren]

Posts discussing Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's role have been moved to her thread as they don't relate to the topic of 'Who is the Head of the Imperial Family?'

° ° °

The moderators have noted that this thread is one of the most repetitive and circular discussions we have in the Forums. Time after time the same questions are asked, the same facts are stated, the same arguments for and against are put forward, and then the process starts all over again from scratch with exactly the same questions, facts and arguments restated.

Until there is something new to report and discuss on this issue, the thread will remain closed.

Warren
Non-Reigning Houses moderator