Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)

[Molly2101]

Those photos are lovely and it always makes me a bit sad to read about the Imperial family as their death was so brutal.

 

[AristoCat]

It was all such a waste, a complete waste. Nicholas should have at least had a trial to have people know how he had failed, same as his wife, but NONE of the children deserved anything like that.

 

[Fredrika-rouva]

We have a children's jingle and game here in Finland which, I believe, dates back to the time of Alexander III’s death and Nicholas II and Alexandra’s wedding. My granny (born when Finland still was an autonomous Grand Duchy in Russian Empire) said that she singed and played it as a child, too. My clumsy translation for the words of the jingle:

Hurrah hurrah for the wedding.
The clock strikes already twelve
The Tsar is standing in his palace.
As black as mold
as white as snow.
The last one coming
brings the death.

As a child I always thought that the words were somewhat mysterious. Some time ago I read somewhere that ordinary people of Russia saw bad omens when old Emperor died during the preparations of his son’s wedding, and said that the bride had brought death to her new family. Then I thought that these stories could have reached also Finland and given idea for the jingle. The bride is usually the last one coming to the wedding.

 

[Valerie Rose]

Two fascinating posts above - thank you both!

 

[AristoCat]

Russians almost always have a sixth sense about people and the future.

 

[Fredrika-rouva]

Another small story from Finnish folk culture concerning Nikolai II:
When Nikolai gave the February Manifesto of 1899, which asserted the imperial government's right to rule Finland without the consent of local legislative bodies, Finns thought that the emperor betrayed the emperor’s oath he had given for Finland. In the same year there was a record high flood. Those water highness marks which were carved into the rock that year are called ” oathbreaker's lines”. In some places the word ”valapatto” meaning ” oathbreaker” is even carved into the rock as a protest.

 

[Al_bina]

The Romanov's photos by Pierre Gilliard.

(originally posted by bellezza_storia)


The last days of the Romanovs: photos by Swiss tutor Pierre Gilliard. - swissinfo.ch

For years Pierre Gilliard was the teacher of Tsar Nicholas the second's children. The Swiss was also a hobby photographer and took snapshots of the last Russian tsar's family going about their daily life.

 

[Duchessmary]

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I find it interesting, considering how prim the Empress was, that naked photos of her family was considered normal?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In Nicholas and Alexandra, Robert K. Massie wrote:
In running his family and empire, Nicholas looked to his father and the Russian past. Nicholas preferred to be Russian down to the smallest details of personal life.

It was in Denmark that the future King George V first met his Russian cousin, the future Tsar Nicholas II. George was five. Nicholas was two.
​

 

[Furienna]

Their mothers (who were sisters) came from Denmark, so that would be why they first met there.

 

[Admiral Horthy]

It was all such a waste, a complete waste. Nicholas should have at least had a trial to have people know how he had failed, same as his wife, but NONE of the children deserved anything like that.

He wasn't a bad man, nor was his wife a bad woman, he may not have been the best ruler in history but he was far from the worst. He and his family didn't derserve to be overthrown, nor killed, nor even tried. The Romanovs were victims of circumstance: WWI (a huge blunder on many poltician's parts), the (to this day) very anti-monarchical US (the Federal government and groups in the US supported the overthrow of the Romanovs/Bolsheviks), and, of course, the very evil Bolsheviks themselves. Had Nocholas managed to survive WWI, he probably never should have abdicated, Russia would not have spent 70 years enslaved and the last 25 in choas. They would have evolved into a modern, constitutional state.

 

[COUNTESS]

Nicholas II was a miserable monarch and his wife was a neurotic. They deserved to be overthrown, not killed. Good old Nicholas was anti- semetic, anachronistic and weak. He never had an original idea, nor the spine to implement it. He was not evil, but he was not good. They were victims of what they sowed, being overthrown, not murdered. This romantic idea that they were victims of WWI, is foolish. There was a revolution of sorts in 1905, 10 years before WWI. They were supposed to modernize and go forward. You would have thought they could have re-established a constitutional monarchy. Alexandra wanted him to regain his Autocratic position. The country needed a good and decent leader, and one who cared for the people. You have no idea from which you base your theory. Not that the Communists brought any wonderful ideas, either.

 

[Furienna]

But still, you do say yourself that they didn't deserve to be killed. And furthermore, their kids hadn't done anything.

 

[Iluvbertie]

He and Alexandra should have stood a public trial for all the murders etc done in their names - and then publicly executed if that was the decision of the trial. The children should then have been stripped of all ranks in Russia and sent into exile with none of the wealth of Russia and refused permission to ever set foot in the country again - but then again finding a country that would take them would have been difficult so maybe death was preferable to knowing that there were persona non grata anywhere at the time due to their father's insistence on withdrawing constitutional reforms as he didn't like the way they panned out. He and Alexandra were never going to agree to being constitutional monarchs - absolute or nothing for them.

 

[Victorian-Dandy]

Countess has a point, if Nicholas had accepted the need for change and had followed that idea through without listening to his wife then the chances are that they might not have suffered the fate they did.

Yes, they suffered a horrid fate but for far too long Nicholas had been blind to the problems the populace had to deal with on a daily basis, when any government or ruling class does that and ignores the plight of the very people they are supposed to represent and look out for, heads will roll...usually theirs.

One documentary I watched said that the Tsarina when she married Nicholas became more Russian than most Russians, she embraced Orthodoxy to the point of fanaticism, her belief in the fact that her husband was absolute ruler and could do no wrong was unshakable and in turn since he would often consult her rather than his ministers well the inevitable happened.

Alexandra was no diplomat nor did she understand the needs and desires of the people of Russia. Nicholas and his father are also equally to blame, his father because of his failure to teach the heir to the throne about diplomacy and how to lead such a vast nation and Nicholas failed because deep down his heart just wasn't in it and was too easily swayed by those that could and did influence him.

While the death of the children is lamentable I can also understand why the Bolsheviks had to do it, to leave one alive would meant that there was this beacon of hope for those that supported the monarchy that the Romanov's would in time return to challenge for the throne and that was something Lenin and Co could ill afford.

 

[Furienna]

Nicholas's mother and sister were allowed to go abroad and live in exile, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for his children. Except for that the Bolsheviks didn't want a direct heir to live, of course. And even though I must admit that I'm maybe not an expert on all the crimes, that Nicholas and Alexandra commited, my feeling still is that this was a cruel tragedy. While I won't deny that Nicholas and Alexandra made their fair share of mistakes, I have a hard time seeing that executing them was the only option.

 

[Victorian-Dandy]

I believe that in the Bolsheviks eyes that was the only option, if they had exiled him and his family there was always the risk especially at the start of them rallying together enough support from both inside and outside Russia to plunge the country into an even bigger war than it was already part of.

Lenin's instructions to Yakov Yurovsky (basically their fate is in your hands) which ended up in the deaths of the Romanov's were in part borne out of frustration that the White Army were gaining ground and in danger of actually freeing the ex Tsar and his family as reinforcements from the south were closing in on Ekaterinburg.

All revolutions are bloody and violent, the Bolsheviks had nothing to loose either they won and Russia was freed of autocratic rule (only to be replaced by Lenin then Stalin, who were in my opinion far worse) or they died trying, Nicholas however had everything to loose and ultimately did.

Plus if they had been exiled, where could they go...George V was terrified of this spectre of Bolshevism reaching England's shores and I can both understand and sympathise with him over that concern, so that would probably put England out of the question. Would another European country dare take on such a tainted family or would they have ended up in either the America's or Australia...we will never know.

 

[AristoCat]

Nicholas's mother and sister were allowed to go abroad and live in exile, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for his children. Except for that the Bolsheviks didn't want a direct heir to live, of course. And even though I must admit that I'm maybe not an expert on all the crimes, that Nicholas and Alexandra commited, my feeling still is that this was a cruel tragedy. While I won't deny that Nicholas and Alexandra made their fair share of mistakes, I have a hard time seeing that executing them was the only option.

To the Bolsheviks, moving them quickly somewhere else was impossible and it's likely that Lenin had panicked and ordered the killings to keep them out of the hands of the Whites and likely end up with the Imperial family as a rallying point with the likelihood of the Imperial Family being a focus for exiles. Ever present as an alternative government, threat to the Commies. Lenin was already partial to killing any Romanovs they could get their hands on.

Murdering the kids was inexcusable and I am certain that it was easily avoidable. Thing is, that it set the precedent for mass murder, all because the "State" had "deemed it necessary" and zero trial was needed. A trial, an execution, but then the kids should have been released to the family members in Denmark and the Dowager Empress could have easily protected them from harm. Especially from the Vladimir backstabbers.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Would any country have taken in the kids though? They were tainted as the children of the man who was responsible for lots of deaths through his policies. The Dowager Empress was allowed to live in Denmark but would Denmark have opened its doors to her with the children who would have been the focus for an untold number of attempted revolts etc in Russia?

These children as we call them were in fact teenagers with minds of their own as well so there is a possibility that they would have refused to leave their parents.

The fact that they weren't together when the revolution happened was also a factor as the Dowager Empress was at one of the coastal properties for the winter while Alexandra and the kids were in St Petersburg. That played a part in Dagmar being able to escape while others weren't so able to do so.

 

[Furienna]

These children as we call them were in fact teenagers with minds of their own as well so there is a possibility that they would have refused to leave their parents.

I believe that the two oldest daughters could have been married by then, and if they had been, they would have lived somewhere else and survived. But they had refused to leave their mother.

 

[fearghas]

I believe that the two oldest daughters could have been married by then, and if they had been, they would have lived somewhere else and survived. But they had refused to leave their mother.

There wereat least two half hearted attempts to marry off the two older daughters, one attempt was with CrownPrince Carol of Romania and also with the Prince of Wales. The girls weren't interested and their mother was definitely not going to push the issue. It makes me wonder, if there hadn't been a revolution, who might they have married. At least one of the older girls said that she wouldn't marry outside Russia but would a Russian Aristocrat have been seen as a suitable suitor for the Emperors daughter? Perhaps one of the sons of the Grand Duke Konstantine might have been suitable?

 

[Furienna]

While I'm not an expert on the Russian imperial family, I think it was rather big, so I think there were a few cousins to choose from. But it seems like Olga and Tatiana only fell in love with men, who were below them in rank, so they hadn't gotten married yet.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The five Romanov offspring would likely have been welcomed in a number of countries....particularly Denmark where their Danish paternal grandmother had a home(Hvidore) and where she eventually died, or France where quite a large number of aristocratic Russian expatriates like the Youssupovs settled.

I am sure that even George V's Government would have offered them asylum with both their parents dead. The massacre of their Russian cousins is said to have haunted King George and Queen Mary for the remainder of their days.

Nicholas and Alexandra died quickly at the hands of the Ekaterinburg death squad. Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia and Alexei did not. In other words, the most innocent and least culpable of them suffered the most.

Terrible irony.

 

[AristoCat]

Would any country have taken in the kids though? They were tainted as the children of the man who was responsible for lots of deaths through his policies. The Dowager Empress was allowed to live in Denmark but would Denmark have opened its doors to her with the children who would have been the focus for an untold number of attempted revolts etc in Russia?

These children as we call them were in fact teenagers with minds of their own as well so there is a possibility that they would have refused to leave their parents.

Given that the Romanov family was vast and scattered around the world, I do not think that any of them would have rejected taking in the teenagers and giving them a home. It's not like the kids were guilty of anything.

I do know I wonder if whether or not the Grand Duchesses would have been allowed to live in peace, without being pressured ot take on some role in exile and being hassled about their father and stuck immersed in family intrigues. I bet Cyril would have tried to marry one of them off to his kids right away.

 

[Victorian-Dandy]

Lets be totally hypothetical for a moment and lets imagine that King George V had granted asylum to his cousin and they had been allowed to leave Russia on the understanding that neither they nor their heirs could ever return.

So there they are kicked out of Russia with just what they can carry, George V gives them a small (by royal standards) cottage in Norfolk probably on the Sandringham Estate and perhaps an apartment in Kensington Palace.

Do folks think they would have been able to settle in England, knowing they had been forced to surrender so much without trying to reclaim what was taken from them..ie the monarchy and their wealth.

Personally I think that Nicky would have rather enjoyed just being a country gent but somehow I do not think that Alix would have been quite so willing or able to throw off the royal mantle.

Anyhow this is just totally hypothetical and something I've wondered about when reading or watching a program on the last Tsar.

 

[AristoCat]

I think Alix would have been a little miffed, but chances are after all that torture she would have adapted quickly and enjoyed quiet country life with occasional trips to the palace.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Nicholas II liked to read Pushkin, Gogol, and the novels of Tolstoy.
Nicholas II's favorite ballet was The Hunchback Horse.
The Hunchback Horse was based on a Russian fairytale.
​

 

[Alexey 1904]

Wonder if Nicky ever read 'War and Peace'. He would have had enough time to read it while under house arrest and then at the Ipatiev House.

 

[Furienna]

There were many great writers in Russia back in the day. But I have no idea how much Nicholas read.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Lets be totally hypothetical for a moment and lets imagine that King George V had granted asylum to his cousin and they had been allowed to leave Russia on the understanding that neither they nor their heirs could ever return...

The Tsar is said to have had a fortune stashed away in the Bank of England. Far from being obliged to live as poor relations of the British Royal Family, the Romanovs would have been quite comfortable indeed. Nicholas and Alexandra both loved England. In fact the Tsarina's private rooms at Tsarskoe Selo, Peterhof and all the Imperial residences were decorated in English chintz, and she employed British nursemaids for her children and she and Nicholas spoke English to one another and to the children.

They doubtless would have been horrified to see Russia fall to Bolshevism and would have never ceased rallying other expatriate Russians to try and overthrow Lenin.. But Nicholas especially would perhaps have accepted their fate as the will of God, and have been happy and relieved to escape the burdens of a throne he never really wanted anyway.
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