The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > The Imperial Family of Russia

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #481  
Old 05-12-2013, 04:50 AM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,555
Those photos are lovely and it always makes me a bit sad to read about the Imperial family as their death was so brutal.
__________________

__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #482  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:39 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 847
It was all such a waste, a complete waste. Nicholas should have at least had a trial to have people know how he had failed, same as his wife, but NONE of the children deserved anything like that.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #483  
Old 08-11-2013, 05:33 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern Finland, Finland
Posts: 11
We have a children's jingle and game here in Finland which, I believe, dates back to the time of Alexander III’s death and Nicholas II and Alexandra’s wedding. My granny (born when Finland still was an autonomous Grand Duchy in Russian Empire) said that she singed and played it as a child, too. My clumsy translation for the words of the jingle:

Hurrah hurrah for the wedding.
The clock strikes already twelve
The Tsar is standing in his palace.
As black as mold
as white as snow.
The last one coming
brings the death.

As a child I always thought that the words were somewhat mysterious. Some time ago I read somewhere that ordinary people of Russia saw bad omens when old Emperor died during the preparations of his son’s wedding, and said that the bride had brought death to her new family. Then I thought that these stories could have reached also Finland and given idea for the jingle. The bride is usually the last one coming to the wedding.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #484  
Old 08-12-2013, 04:13 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 310
Two fascinating posts above - thank you both!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #485  
Old 08-12-2013, 04:49 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 847
Russians almost always have a sixth sense about people and the future.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #486  
Old 08-15-2013, 12:14 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern Finland, Finland
Posts: 11
Another small story from Finnish folk culture concerning Nikolai II:
When Nikolai gave the February Manifesto of 1899, which asserted the imperial government's right to rule Finland without the consent of local legislative bodies, Finns thought that the emperor betrayed the emperor’s oath he had given for Finland. In the same year there was a record high flood. Those water highness marks which were carved into the rock that year are called ” oathbreaker's lines”. In some places the word ”valapatto” meaning ” oathbreaker” is even carved into the rock as a protest.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #487  
Old 12-08-2013, 11:35 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 5,597
The Romanov's photos by Pierre Gilliard.

(originally posted by bellezza_storia)


The last days of the Romanovs: photos by Swiss tutor Pierre Gilliard. - swissinfo.ch
Quote:
For years Pierre Gilliard was the teacher of Tsar Nicholas the second's children. The Swiss was also a hobby photographer and took snapshots of the last Russian tsar's family going about their daily life.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things" Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #488  
Old 12-08-2013, 11:41 PM
Duchessmary's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, United States
Posts: 1,081
Wow. Thanks for sharing. I find it interesting, considering how prim the Empress was, that naked photos of her family was considered normal?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #489  
Old 01-30-2014, 04:43 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,236
In Nicholas and Alexandra, Robert K. Massie wrote:
In running his family and empire, Nicholas looked to his father and the Russian past. Nicholas preferred to be Russian down to the smallest details of personal life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #490  
Old 02-12-2014, 05:25 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,236
It was in Denmark that the future King George V first met his Russian cousin, the future Tsar Nicholas II. George was five. Nicholas was two.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #491  
Old 02-13-2014, 01:56 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,200
Their mothers (who were sisters) came from Denmark, so that would be why they first met there.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #492  
Old 02-16-2014, 01:45 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
It was all such a waste, a complete waste. Nicholas should have at least had a trial to have people know how he had failed, same as his wife, but NONE of the children deserved anything like that.
He wasn't a bad man, nor was his wife a bad woman, he may not have been the best ruler in history but he was far from the worst. He and his family didn't derserve to be overthrown, nor killed, nor even tried. The Romanovs were victims of circumstance: WWI (a huge blunder on many poltician's parts), the (to this day) very anti-monarchical US (the Federal government and groups in the US supported the overthrow of the Romanovs/Bolsheviks), and, of course, the very evil Bolsheviks themselves. Had Nocholas managed to survive WWI, he probably never should have abdicated, Russia would not have spent 70 years enslaved and the last 25 in choas. They would have evolved into a modern, constitutional state.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #493  
Old 02-16-2014, 10:30 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,466
Nicholas II was a miserable monarch and his wife was a neurotic. They deserved to be overthrown, not killed. Good old Nicholas was anti- semetic, anachronistic and weak. He never had an original idea, nor the spine to implement it. He was not evil, but he was not good. They were victims of what they sowed, being overthrown, not murdered. This romantic idea that they were victims of WWI, is foolish. There was a revolution of sorts in 1905, 10 years before WWI. They were supposed to modernize and go forward. You would have thought they could have re-established a constitutional monarchy. Alexandra wanted him to regain his Autocratic position. The country needed a good and decent leader, and one who cared for the people. You have no idea from which you base your theory. Not that the Communists brought any wonderful ideas, either.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #494  
Old 02-17-2014, 03:27 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,200
But still, you do say yourself that they didn't deserve to be killed. And furthermore, their kids hadn't done anything.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #495  
Old 02-17-2014, 04:08 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,427
He and Alexandra should have stood a public trial for all the murders etc done in their names - and then publicly executed if that was the decision of the trial. The children should then have been stripped of all ranks in Russia and sent into exile with none of the wealth of Russia and refused permission to ever set foot in the country again - but then again finding a country that would take them would have been difficult so maybe death was preferable to knowing that there were persona non grata anywhere at the time due to their father's insistence on withdrawing constitutional reforms as he didn't like the way they panned out. He and Alexandra were never going to agree to being constitutional monarchs - absolute or nothing for them.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #496  
Old 02-17-2014, 04:24 AM
Victorian-Dandy's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: York, United Kingdom
Posts: 83
Countess has a point, if Nicholas had accepted the need for change and had followed that idea through without listening to his wife then the chances are that they might not have suffered the fate they did.

Yes, they suffered a horrid fate but for far too long Nicholas had been blind to the problems the populace had to deal with on a daily basis, when any government or ruling class does that and ignores the plight of the very people they are supposed to represent and look out for, heads will roll...usually theirs.

One documentary I watched said that the Tsarina when she married Nicholas became more Russian than most Russians, she embraced Orthodoxy to the point of fanaticism, her belief in the fact that her husband was absolute ruler and could do no wrong was unshakable and in turn since he would often consult her rather than his ministers well the inevitable happened.

Alexandra was no diplomat nor did she understand the needs and desires of the people of Russia. Nicholas and his father are also equally to blame, his father because of his failure to teach the heir to the throne about diplomacy and how to lead such a vast nation and Nicholas failed because deep down his heart just wasn't in it and was too easily swayed by those that could and did influence him.

While the death of the children is lamentable I can also understand why the Bolsheviks had to do it, to leave one alive would meant that there was this beacon of hope for those that supported the monarchy that the Romanov's would in time return to challenge for the throne and that was something Lenin and Co could ill afford.
Reply With Quote
  #497  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:17 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,200
Nicholas's mother and sister were allowed to go abroad and live in exile, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for his children. Except for that the Bolsheviks didn't want a direct heir to live, of course. And even though I must admit that I'm maybe not an expert on all the crimes, that Nicholas and Alexandra commited, my feeling still is that this was a cruel tragedy. While I won't deny that Nicholas and Alexandra made their fair share of mistakes, I have a hard time seeing that executing them was the only option.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #498  
Old 02-17-2014, 05:56 AM
Victorian-Dandy's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: York, United Kingdom
Posts: 83
I believe that in the Bolsheviks eyes that was the only option, if they had exiled him and his family there was always the risk especially at the start of them rallying together enough support from both inside and outside Russia to plunge the country into an even bigger war than it was already part of.

Lenin's instructions to Yakov Yurovsky (basically their fate is in your hands) which ended up in the deaths of the Romanov's were in part borne out of frustration that the White Army were gaining ground and in danger of actually freeing the ex Tsar and his family as reinforcements from the south were closing in on Ekaterinburg.

All revolutions are bloody and violent, the Bolsheviks had nothing to loose either they won and Russia was freed of autocratic rule (only to be replaced by Lenin then Stalin, who were in my opinion far worse) or they died trying, Nicholas however had everything to loose and ultimately did.

Plus if they had been exiled, where could they go...George V was terrified of this spectre of Bolshevism reaching England's shores and I can both understand and sympathise with him over that concern, so that would probably put England out of the question. Would another European country dare take on such a tainted family or would they have ended up in either the America's or Australia...we will never know.
Reply With Quote
  #499  
Old 02-20-2014, 02:41 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Nicholas's mother and sister were allowed to go abroad and live in exile, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for his children. Except for that the Bolsheviks didn't want a direct heir to live, of course. And even though I must admit that I'm maybe not an expert on all the crimes, that Nicholas and Alexandra commited, my feeling still is that this was a cruel tragedy. While I won't deny that Nicholas and Alexandra made their fair share of mistakes, I have a hard time seeing that executing them was the only option.
To the Bolsheviks, moving them quickly somewhere else was impossible and it's likely that Lenin had panicked and ordered the killings to keep them out of the hands of the Whites and likely end up with the Imperial family as a rallying point with the likelihood of the Imperial Family being a focus for exiles. Ever present as an alternative government, threat to the Commies. Lenin was already partial to killing any Romanovs they could get their hands on.

Murdering the kids was inexcusable and I am certain that it was easily avoidable. Thing is, that it set the precedent for mass murder, all because the "State" had "deemed it necessary" and zero trial was needed. A trial, an execution, but then the kids should have been released to the family members in Denmark and the Dowager Empress could have easily protected them from harm. Especially from the Vladimir backstabbers.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #500  
Old 02-20-2014, 03:34 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,427
Would any country have taken in the kids though? They were tainted as the children of the man who was responsible for lots of deaths through his policies. The Dowager Empress was allowed to live in Denmark but would Denmark have opened its doors to her with the children who would have been the focus for an untold number of attempted revolts etc in Russia?

These children as we call them were in fact teenagers with minds of their own as well so there is a possibility that they would have refused to leave their parents.

The fact that they weren't together when the revolution happened was also a factor as the Dowager Empress was at one of the coastal properties for the winter while Alexandra and the kids were in St Petersburg. That played a part in Dagmar being able to escape while others weren't so able to do so.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alexandra, alix, empress alexandra, nicholas, nicholas and alexandra, tsar nicholas ii


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tsar Alexander III (1845-1894) and Empress Marie Feodorovna (Dagmar) (1847-1928) TOMMIX The Imperial Family of Russia 142 07-19-2014 05:43 PM
HH Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan (1918-2004) Akilah Ruling Family of Abu Dhabi 94 07-18-2014 02:24 PM
Grand Duke Serge (1857-1905) & Elisaveta Feodorovna, Grand Duchess Serge (1864-1918) gaoshan1021 The Imperial Family of Russia 123 03-06-2014 11:11 PM
Tsar Nicholas I (1796-1855) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (1798-1860) lexi4 The Imperial Family of Russia 22 12-18-2013 03:58 PM
Prince Nicholas (1872-1938), Grand Duchess Elena (1882-1957) and daughters Princess_Elizaveta Greek Royal History 113 03-26-2011 08:19 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth bourbon-parma charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit visit wedding william



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]