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  #301  
Old 08-23-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by persian85033 View Post
I've always felt especially sorry for the girls. Didn't Marie Feodorovna say that they were prisoners of their mother's paranoia? And maybe she had a point.
I agree. Alexandra never really let them out with others. They were rather socially handicapped.
Odette, Nicholas' uncles ALL gave him advice. All the time. He was just too stubborn to listen to reason. And it didn't help that Alexandra was always hammering on him to "Be the Tsar! You must take charge!" etc. etc. ad nauseum.
I think she was very cruel to take the children into exile with them. She should have sent them to England (if possible). Really. Or Finland. Anywhere but Russia.
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  #302  
Old 08-23-2010, 07:45 PM
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I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
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  #303  
Old 08-23-2010, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
You are correct on that. However, they were not living in safe times. She should have known this. To selfishly drag her children down with her was awful to say the least.
As a parent, I would move heaven and earth to get my children to safety. That, IMO, is a parents' job.
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  #304  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:19 PM
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But like Zonk said, she probably had no reason to believe, that they would hurt the children.
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  #305  
Old 08-25-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
You are correct on that. However, they were not living in safe times. She should have known this. To selfishly drag her children down with her was awful to say the least.
As a parent, I would move heaven and earth to get my children to safety. That, IMO, is a parents' job.
That is true. Alix was selfish in taking her children with her into exile. Although, I have wondered, if say, one of them had survived, like say, they had married Olga to a foreign prince or something like that, and she survived, that would possibly be very traumatic for her, perhaps scarring her for life. I don't know.
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  #306  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
I do not think she was realizing the situation. All her life she was not really understanding the reality of her life. On the other side, maybe she was affraid to let her children go, she was not confident.

But do we really know that they would let them go abroad???? I do not think so. This time it was a general revolution, not a simple attack to kill the tsar.
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  #307  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:16 AM
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Good points on all aspects.

Let's face it...Alix was not meant to be the Tsar's wife. She was meant to be Nicholas wife becasue they adored each other but she wasn't ready for the responsibliities and the intrigue of the Russian Court.

I think she wanted her kids because what mother wouldn't want their kids to remain with them. I think if she knew how it would turn out or if there was a possiblity that the kids would have gotten hurt or killed she would have let them go.

I think the best chance they had of leaving Russia was the time when George V was asked about it. If he had said yes, I think things would have been different. At least the children would have been alive.
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  #308  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:18 AM
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You said ALL!!!!
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  #309  
Old 08-25-2010, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post

I think she wanted her kids because what mother wouldn't want their kids to remain with them.
All the time Zonk. However, it is a parents duty to let their children grow up and make lives of their own, no matter how bittersweet it is to the parent. She wouldn't even do that, always dressing them in the same outfits.
And therein lies the tragedy.
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  #310  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:03 PM
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That is an excellent question. I, think, Alix's personality was one cause. She was morose and shy. She loved Nicholas a great deal and felt that autocracy was his due. She had few initmate friends in Russia and she surrounded herself with religious zealots and intolerant courtiers. Vikky was very intelligent and learned and understood the lesson of the changing world, I, think, Alexandra was overly bright and stuck to her guns out of fear.
I like this. IMO, it makes me think that Alix didn't know how to roll with the punches, so to speak in Russian. Or really anywhere. Because of this she stayed the course a la Titanic to disaster.

Careful Pamela! You'll give Russo a big head!
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  #311  
Old 09-12-2010, 10:27 PM
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Read an interesting article about the religious views of Nicholas and Alexandra. They, especially she, seemed to welcome the "martyrdom" of being an Orthodox Christian, while the human nature welcomed the prospect of being rescued before the tragic massacre. Of special note, at least to me, was that Nicholas continued to blame the Jews for his downfall, whereas Alexandra was not so prejudiced against the Jews, and believed that other faiths should practice their beliefs. Alexandra even cautioned her husband to restrain the Russian troops from vandalizing mosques and shrines when it entered Turkey during the war.

She did believe, however, that God was punishing Russia because the Duma dared to remove her husband, who was anointed by God, from the throne. This belief clouded the royal couple from ever realizing that their policies might have also contributed to the revolution.
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  #312  
Old 09-24-2010, 10:33 PM
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The only recording I could find of the Tsar's voice, from a military parade. The Tsar is heard briefly from 1:49 to 1:53, and again for longer from 2:09.

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  #313  
Old 09-24-2010, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dralcoffin View Post
The only recording I could find of the Tsar's voice, from a military parade. The Tsar is heard briefly from 1:49 to 1:53, and again for longer from 2:09.
Thank you for posting this. The Tsar's voice sounds better than I expected. How did you ever locate this?
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  #314  
Old 09-24-2010, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Thank you for posting this. The Tsar's voice sounds better than I expected. How did you ever locate this?
You're welcome! I found it through some digging on Youtube. It has most historical figures of the past 100 years, and usually "(name of person) voice" is enough to bring up a recording.
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  #315  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:09 AM
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Wonderful! I will need to check that out on youtube because I search it a lot when some celebrity or historical figure triggers my interest now and then.
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  #316  
Old 09-27-2010, 12:35 AM
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How have they authenticated the voice? Just curious.
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  #317  
Old 09-30-2010, 01:55 PM
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I read the translated program from Nicholas and Alexandra's wedding. In the order of procession, it was the dowager Empress (referred to as the Sovereign Empress throughout until the ceremony was completed, then afterwards referred to as Her Majesty the Empress Maria Feodrovna), Alexandra, Nicholas, King of Denmark, King and Queen of the Hellenes, Ernie, Alfred the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and Maria (referred to as Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna before Duchess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha), then Bertie and Alexandra, farther back Irene of Prussia, and farther back still, Serge and Ella, then other various royals.

I did not see Victoria of Battenburg listed. She was Alexandra's oldest sister. Does anyone know if she attended the wedding? And if so, was she too minor of a royal to merit a specific mention in the programme?
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  #318  
Old 09-30-2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
How have they authenticated the voice? Just curious.
I do not know. I'd like to think it's the Tsar, as I have searched pretty thoroughly and Nicholas is perhaps the most difficult European emperor of the time to find a recording. Wilhelm, George V, Franz Joseph, political figures like Poincare, Lenin, Asquith, Wilson, etc. have recordings up, but this brief fragment is the only audio described as the Tsar that I have found. But I have no way of telling whether it is authentic.
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  #319  
Old 10-10-2010, 03:07 PM
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I believe the sound track is from an old news clip which I believe I've heard on one of the history specials about WWI. I don't recall if it was repeated in one of the specials about Russia/Nicholas II and Alexandra.

It would be nice to track it down.

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  #320  
Old 11-02-2010, 01:56 PM
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I was reading about the expenses of Empress Alexandra on another web site. It was thought that her collection of jewelry was the largest in the world, valued at over $50 million dollars in 1917 currency. Alexandra, unlike other Russian women, did not like to display her jewelry in glass and wooden cases for people to ooh and aah over. (I read that Grand Duchess Maria, daughter-in-law of Queen Victoria, displayed her jewelry in a specially designed room to show off her treasures).

Perhaps because of her relative lack of wealth while growing up in Hesse-Darmstadt, Alexandra kept a close eye on her expenses and also took her jewelry everywhere. She undoubtedly recognized that if the worst happened (which it did), the jewelry could be easily converted for money. And because she did not flaunt her possessions, the Soviets did not have a clear idea of the vast collection of her jewels. She only turned over the bulky items which could not be easily hidden -- such as the Faberge eggs (another reason may be that the eggs' existence was widely known in the country). Kerensky was reluctant to search the Empress and her daughters, which explains why the jewels were sewn into their clothing and possessions.

WOW, my 600th post!
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