Tsar Alexander III (1845-1894) and Empress Marie Feodorovna (Dagmar) (1847-1928)


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You are right. The populace, plus many churches kept anti-semitism flourishing. Today, is disheartening to hear that. Makes you wonder.
 
No. It was his upbringing and his basic lack of intellectual curiosity. Plus the imbued bigotry. What nature or nuture didn't change, was that he was a loving family man. Great to his wife and children. That speaks volumes, too. He loved children and was fun to be with for them. He was not a particularly bright or well taught man. A second son. Perhaps, if the blight of anti-semitism did not exist in all of Eurpoean Royalty..... he really was no different and he if he was able to access more useable knowledge......but it is what it is.
His minister helped with that (anti-semitism). He became Nicholas' minister as well.
 
...anti-semitism is alive and well in Europe...
I wouldn't agree with saying Europe. Europe is a continent with a lot of very different countries. Eastern Europe is very different from middle- or south europe, France is very different from Germany and Italy from Great Britain. For that I wouldn't say that anti-semitism is a big topic in my country. As for your comment - well, the jewish culture isn't indeed european culture. Don't get me wrong, I hate antisemitism and all kind of discrimination and intolerance.

And yes, it wasn't only the royals which disliked the jews, it was all sort of people because some jews had high jobs and big money and I believe there was a lot envy!
 
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I think Marie's influence on Nicholas would have been better than Alexandra's, for sure. But Nicholas would have been best off had he made his own choices, not that he was the type to do that as he was not strong willed, and he was easily influenceable. If someone had to dominate him, it was better Marie though.
 
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Isn't that sad that Nicholas had to be dominated to get things done. It seems he didn't have a sense of discernment to figure things out. Minnie had a terrific sense of discernment and was quick witted to know what was good for the country. Nicholas should have paid attention to that.
Oh well, if wishes were horses, beggers would ride. . .
 
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Nicholas was not his father. He could barely make a decision. Although, he fought for Alix. He was a terrible monarch, his mother had far more wit and guile on her side.
 
Nicholas just didn't have the personality to be tsar, and then he married someone who dominated him in the wrong way. Everyone wanted to give Nicholas advice from his wife, to his uncles to his mother. But it is likely that Marie's advice wasn't as self interested as the advice of his uncles (especially Vladimir and his family, not pleased that the throne had passed them by), and Marie's advice was defintely better than Alexandra's. Alexandra didn't have very good judgement, to say the least and always believed she was right, and would never admit she was in error.
 
Nicholas was not his father. He could barely make a decision. Although, he fought for Alix. He was a terrible monarch, his mother had far more wit and guile on her side.
Yes, he did fight for Alix. And she was a terrible choice. She hadn't any initiative and Minnie, for her part, didn't train her like she should have in the court ways, then again, Minnie was an awfully clever person and figured a lot of it out on her own (as Empress Marie was much of the time bedridden and ailing).
What do you think if Michael had been allowed to marry Baby Bee (of Roumania)?
 
I think Minnie tried to help Alix, at least in the beginning, but Alix never bothered to learn. Minnie knew that Alix court usurp her as the queen bee of court and would have probably wanted Alix to at least be presentable. Alix was definitely stubborn and just flat out refused to participate in court life.

The only place Alix managed to steal from Minnie was influence on Nicky. In the beginning of the marriage, mother and son were still very close and he did turn to Minnie for advice. But after a serious illness during which Alix nursed him tirelessly back to health, he came to completely rely on Alix. Minnie's hold on her son was lost and realized as he stopped visiting his mother so frequently on a daily basis.
 
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Alix was too stubborn. I think she never really realized this was Russia, not Hesse. In the Russian court things were different. She didn't really accept it, I think. She wanted to change things.

Minnie, her daughter, Xenia, and her granddaughter, Irina, are my most favorite Romanovs. Though there was one thing that puzzled me about Minnie. Wasn't her mother-in-law, Marie Alexandrovna German? She was Alix's great aunt or something, wasn't she? It never struck me that she would not like her mother-in-law like she did Alix. Anyone know how they got along?
 
Though there was one thing that puzzled me about Minnie. Wasn't her mother-in-law, Marie Alexandrovna German? She was Alix's great aunt or something, wasn't she? It never struck me that she would not like her mother-in-law like she did Alix. Anyone know how they got along?
From Coryn Hall's book "Little MOther of Russia" (excellent book, btw, you should read it :flowers:. I think just about every library has it) I believe they loved Minnie and she them. When Marie got more and more ill, Minnie took over more and more of her duties. She (Minnie) was not happy with Alexander II when he moved his young mistress in the palace with his wife still alive. Protocol and disrespect, after all. . .
 
That's one of my favorite books! I had to buy it the first time I saw it. I've been looking for a chance to read it again, but time always gets in the way! There's never enough time to read.lolI'm a big reader, and I'd read books all day if I could.lol

Yes, she called Marie Alexandrovna little mama or something, I think. I believe she got along relatively well with Ella, too? But eventually, even Ella saw that Alix wasn't a very good tsarina.

One of the things I like most of this book is that it does show things more objectively. In some books about Alix, it portrays Minnie as not cruel, but in a bad light, and vice versa. This one shows more that they were very different women, they just had different ways of looking at things.
 
:previous:I agree, it is an excellent very well objective book. Minnie sure got lucky finding a true love with Nixa and turning around and finding another in Alexander III.
 
I'm a little late coming into the discussion, but I would like to elaborate on the causes of the Romanov's antisemitism. Firstly, one of Nicholas' teachers, Konstantin Pobedonostsev, who was defacto head of the Russian Orthodox Church, was virulently antisemitic. In this he was in total agreement with Alexander III, and he passed this hatred on to Nicky.

Secondly, much of Christianity, but especially the Orthodox Church, considered the Jews to be responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus; they were guilty of deicide. If not dogma, it was at least widely believed. (It was only in l965 that the Catholic Church took the public step of exonerating the Jewish people from this condemnation; I don't think that the Orthodox Church has done the same).

In Eastern Europe, antisemitism was not only acceptable, it was a "normal" point of view, and I think, remains so to this day, unfortunately.
 
The prejudice I really understand very little is them being so anti German. I mean, Marie Alexandrovna was German. She was Alix's great aunt, as well, I think. And wasn't Minnie herself half German, as well?
 
The hatred of the Germans, as far as Minnie was concerned, stemmed from a boundary dispute between Denmark and Prussia, Schleswig-Holstein, which Denmark lost. Queen Alexandra of Great Britain was anti-German because of this and caused friction among the British royal family because of her dislike of Germany. Then there was Willy (Kaiser Wilhelm), who was universally disliked by all of his relatives, even the Germans, and disliked by other monarchs. Add to this that many Germans, including Alix and her family, dislike the virulent attitude of Prussia, and you can see that many people dislike the Germans.
 
Wasn't Empress Marie also a fan of the Finns? I believe I read that she took a position opposite many of her government, including her husband and son, and tried to recall unpopular governor-generals from Finland because of "russification" efforts in that country. She even had the Finnish national anthem played on her imperial train carriage when she passed through the country.
 
You are correct VM. Per Coryn Hall's book, Minnie took their side and always placated Alexander III when he tried to impose harsh laws upon them.
 
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She must have been a remarkable woman. I wondered what made Minnie admire the Finns so much? Maybe they reminded her of the Danes or perhaps she sympathized because of coming from a relatively small country, both in world politics and size.
 
She must have been a remarkable woman. I wondered what made Minnie admire the Finns so much? Maybe they reminded her of the Danes or perhaps she sympathized because of coming from a relatively small country, both in world politics and size.
Could be. I cannot remember what Coryn said in her book. Maybe someone who has the book on hand can enlighten us?
 
p. 353:

>>In Finland she is remembered as one of the most popular royal ladies. One museum has a chair from a peasant's cottage in Nyland, where she once sat while she chatted to the family. The fishing lodge at Langinkoski is open to the public every year tourtist come to see where the Empress of Russia cooked the meals while her husband fished for salmon.<<

Earlier PR for Dagmar on p. 111:

>>Dagmar first visited Finland in 1876, when she and Sasha, [future Alexander III], >>accompanied the Tsar and Tsarina to Helsinki. The people loved the informal way she went among them, spoke to the Swedish-speaking Finns in their own language and acted as interpreter for her parents-in-law and husband. Students followed her, singing the Danish Royal Anthem; girls presented flowers and recited poems. She won everybody's heart. Every summer afterwards they headed for a few week so relation in the Finnish archipelago.<<

There is more if you'd like me to add more.:flowers:


AGRBeart
 
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I remember reading that. When did she learn Finnish? Is it similar to Danish?
 
I think Finnish is closer to the Hungarian language than Danish or any other Scandinavian dialects. I think I remember this from a guide in Budapest when I visited Hungary. Perhaps someone will add more info or correct me.
 
Finnish is one of the Uralic languages, thus close to Hungarian and Estonian.
 
Thank you MAfan. I'm sure Marie endeared herself to the Finns by championing their land and causes plus even taking the time and effort to learn Finnish. She was very passionate and concerned about the people in her adopted country of Russia, it was a shame that her husband died young and that her daughter-in-law Alexandra couldn't have learned how to assume the role of Empress as her mother-in-law. That's an entirely different thread as we all know.:flowers:
 
Dagmar >>...spoke to the Swedish-speaking Finns... <<.

Far as I know, she didn't speak Finnish.

Danish, Swedish, German... are similar.

AGRBear
 
Finnish and Estonian are similiar. I doubt if she spoke Finnish. That is why when you're in Finland the signs are also in Swedish.
 
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