Tsar Alexander II (1818-1881) and Empress Maria Alexandrovna (1824-1880)

[AristoCat]

Read the Greg King and Richard Massie biographies and you'll see it there.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

Basically one of Nicholas' uncles threatened to shoot himself right then and there in the head (in Nicholas' office) if Nicholas refused to grant a constitution.

Originally Posted by MAfan

I didn't know this story; who was this uncle?

Originally Posted by Russophile

A couple of them threatened. Nicholas Nicholaivitch and who was the other? I think Sandro's father?

I don't know who the other Grand Duke may have been but my dear Russo was correct:

When the time came to make his final decision [about creating a constitution], Nicholas II prevaricated. The tsar's cousin, the tall and imposing Grand Duke Nicholas ("Nikolasha") was so furious about plans to proceed with a military dictatorship that he stormed into Peterhof and exclaimed: "I'm going now to the Czar and I will beg him to sign the manifesto and the Witte program. Either he signs or in his presence I will put a bullet through my head with this revolver."

Gelardi, Born to Rule, pp. 117-118. Her source is Salisbury Black Night, White Snow: Russia's Revolutions, 1905-1917.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Is Nikolasha, Nicholas Nickolaevich? He was one of the men put up to be head of the family after the murders.

[MAfan]

Yes, Nikolasha was Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolaevich (the younger; 1856-1929); he had been proclaimed Tsar by the Zemsky Sobor of the Preamursk region in 1922.

[Benedict XVI]

Are there any good biographies on him?

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Man I wish there was one on him. He was one of the few characters I like and who seems honorable when reading about the Romanovs. Then again when I read about him it is more about how Alexandra disliked him because he was so loved by the military; Nicholas took his place in command of the army during the late stages of Russia's involvement in the war and it all went downhill from there.

[Benedict XVI]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Man I wish there was one on him. He was one of the few characters I like and who seems honorable when reading about the Romanovs. Then again when I read about him it is more about how Alexandra disliked him because he was so loved by the military; Nicholas took his place in command of the army during the late stages of Russia's involvement in the war and it all went downhill from there.

I do find It weird that there aren't books on the great tsar liberator.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

I do find It weird that there aren't books on the great tsar liberator.

My dear Benedict XVI,

You are confusing your Romanovs, I think. I am not sure what you mean by tsar liberator--the emancipator of the serfs was Nicholas's grandfather, Alexander II. Nikolasha was head of the army for a while during WWI but I never heard him described as the tsar liberator. To whom are you referring?

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Alexander wanted to institute an elected parliament or Duma but his death occurred in the short amount of time preceding the planned announcement. His successor, Alexander III, tore up the plans. It is a shame because Alexander II, if he had lived, may have steered his country towards a constitutional monarchy.

I really think Alexander's assassination was one of Russia's great tragedies. He was moving Russia forward--and Russia desperately needed someone to do that. He might well have been the last decent leader Russia has had.

The People's Will, the group that assassinated him, was--imho--quite stupid and lacked the ability to think ahead.

I read a good book on the "Tsar-Liberator" a few years ago.

[Benedict XVI]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I really think Alexander's assassination was one of Russia's great tragedies. He was moving Russia forward--and Russia desperately needed someone to do that. He might well have been the last decent leader Russia has had.

The People's Will, the group that assassinated him, was--imho--quite stupid and lacked the ability to think ahead.

I read a good book on the "Tsar-Liberator" a few years ago.

This story is one that makes me mad. It was so close but the assassins released that if he was able to pass this law then many supporters would be lost because the tsar himself wouldn't be as responsible for there issues. And I think that if any of the history of the tsar they would learn that by killing him the tsarist repression would return.

If he only would have stayed in his carriage we wouldn't talk about him.

Norodnaya volya is the name of the group who killed him.

Do you know the name of that book?

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I really think Alexander's assassination was one of Russia's great tragedies. He was moving Russia forward--and Russia desperately needed someone to do that. He might well have been the last decent leader Russia has had.

The People's Will, the group that assassinated him, was--imho--quite stupid and lacked the ability to think ahead.

I read a good book on the "Tsar-Liberator" a few years ago.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's so sad to wonder what could have happened if he had lived to implement his reforms. I can't believe they killed a Tsar who was actually for reforming the country! I can't even blame Alexander III for becoming a reactionary after seeing his father killed like that.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

This story is one that makes me mad. It was so close but the assassins released that if he was able to pass this law then many supporters would be lost because the tsar himself wouldn't be as responsible for there issues. And I think that if any of the history of the tsar they would learn that by killing him the tsarist repression would return.

If he only would have stayed in his carriage we wouldn't talk about him.

Norodnaya volya is the name of the group who killed him.

Do you know the name of that book?

I get angry too and sad. So many things could have been different.

Iirc, in English, the group is The People's Will....Not that I think their will represented the views of most people. Their recruitment was quite unsuccessful.

The book is Alexander II: The Last Great Tsar by Edvard Radzinsky.

[Benedict XVI]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I get angry too and sad. So many things could have been different.

Iirc, in English, the group is The People's Will....Not that I think their will represented the views of most people. Their recruitment was quite unsuccessful.

The book is Alexander II: The Last Great Tsar by Edvard Radzinsky.

thank you for the title and I get frustrated with the story.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I agree wholeheartedly. It's so sad to wonder what could have happened if he had lived to implement his reforms. I can't believe they killed a Tsar who was actually for reforming the country! I can't even blame Alexander III for becoming a reactionary after seeing his father killed like that.

I think Alexander III was always a reactionary though. This simply further solidified his position. He was never going to be the reformer his father was imo.

[Benedict XVI]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I think Alexander III was always a reactionary though. This simply further solidified his position. He was never going to be the reformer his father was imo.

That is true. Although I am not much of a supporter of him I do support his reaction to his fathers death, it was to be expected for him to act the way he did.