Suitors and possible matches for the daughters of Nicholas II

[AristoCat]

Well, the Vladimirs were known to be incredibly ambitious.

 

[zehra.gurler]

Well, the Vladimirs were known to be incredibly ambitious.

Well said. That's another interesting topic to discuss actually on another thread.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

It is sad when I think how short and tragic were the lives of these four sisters. I recall reading in Nicholas and Alexandra about a ball given by the Dowager Empress for her granddaughters and how excited they were to attend and how they chattered about it on the train ride back to Tsarskoe Selo and how it was Nicholas who accompanied them back in the early morning hours because Alexandra either left early or never attended at all. And that is why there were no suitors for the oldest two. Alexandra never took an interest in arranging any matches for them and because of the cloistered life led by the young grand duchesses, they never really encountered any contemporaries or beaux.

I also recall reading that if the girls were out in public and encountered a friend, acquaintance or even talked to a stranger, the secret police would then pull that individual aside after the grand duchess had left and interrogate the poor person about the nature of the conversation, how they knew the royal personage, etc. It is no wonder that the grand duchesses were reluctant to even acknowledge people in public because they eventually learned that those very people would be questioned by the police.

So, if it wasn't Alexandra's social phobia, it was the secret police who also made their social life difficult. I guess some consolation must come from the probably correct observation that they enjoyed their intimate family life. But if that was all they knew, one can only wonder what might have been if their imperial highnesses were allowed to see more of the world outside the Alexander Palace.

 

[Grandduchess24]

I know that Louis battenburg an uncle of the duke of Edinburgh had a crush on his cousin the grand duchess Maria nikolaievna and that he even kept a picture of her by his bed. Tatiana could have possibly married prince Christopher of Greece and Anastasia could have possibly married crown prince Albert I of Belgium .maria's was true and for tatya it could have been possible as well as Ana.

 

[MAfan]

Albert I of Belgium was too old for Tatiana (he was 22 years older than her), and by the way he was already married, to Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria.
Maybe, were you thinking to their son Leopold (the future King Leopold III)?

 

[SweetLana]

There is also the mystery of which daughter was a carrier; I wonder if danger of passing on the disease ever occured to Nicholas and Alexandra? There was a zone of silence when it came to Alix getting married and she appeared to be in denial that she was possibly a carrier.

I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.

 

[zehra.gurler]

I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.

So the discussion on whether or not Alexei's illness was known through out the royal houses of Europe is also valid. It seems highly likely that the elder daughters of Nicholas were not seriously taken or people were hesitant as it is apparent no monarch wanted the possibility of haemophilia in their successive line. I wouldn't either. If not the reason, Alix it seems intentionally or unintentionally she ruined her daughters prospects. Is there anything Alix didn't ruin?

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.

I don't recall reading that before. Was that in Massie's book or another one? It's good to know that it was at least mentioned during the time and appeared to be somewhat known what was going on within the family. The fact that there were four girls makes me theorize that there had to be at least one who was a carrier, possibly two. The reason I brought it up is because Alexandra didn't seem to think about the possibility of her having a son with hemophilia when she accepted Nicholas' proposal; rather than thinking she just didn't care, I assume it was more like she didn't want to think it was possible and was still operating under the cone of silence about it that had started with Victoria. Perhaps the reason she didn't care so much about marriage for her daughters is she knew the hemophilia issue was going to be a problem for them getting husbands. Also Alexei's illness dominated her life from the day it was discovered he indeed had the disease.

The romantic in me imagines Marie marrying Dickie (homeboy had a picture of her until his death. You can't say that isn't love) and I don't care if he wasn't royal enough for an Emperor's daughter. Tatiana marries David, I think Olga would be better suited, but she seemed adamant about remaining in Russia. Despite Alexandra seemingly hating them, if Olga is going to stay in Russia she is going to have to marry one of her cousins or second cousins or 14th cousins twice removed but I'm still important enough to have a title.

 

[Bensgal]

I don't believe it was a lack of caring whether hemophilia spread on Alexandra's part more a lack of education of society in general. What we know now about the disease, of course wasn't known then.

 

[Meraude]

I don't believe it was a lack of caring whether hemophilia spread on Alexandra's part more a lack of education of society in general. What we know now about the disease, of course wasn't known then.

Even if there wasn't as much knowledge about hemophilia in the beginning of the 20th century, Alexandra had had a brother and a nephew who had died young and also had an uncle, a couple of cousins and sons to her female cousins with hemophilia, so it's not surprising if other royals would be speculating if there could be something "wrong" with Alexandra's daughters and not be interested in having them as daughters-in-law.

 

[Bensgal]

Yes, you're correct and I agree. My comment was more to the idea that Alexandra didn't care whether she spread the disease. As I mentioned, I don't believe it was a lack of caring but more a lack of education. What we know now and the medical testing available to couples who have genetic concerns, obviously, wasn't available during Alexandra's time. It was more the thought of yes, they knew the disease existed and the spread was possible but they gambled the odds. If I remember correctly from the book, Born to Rule, King Alfonso XIII was aware of the possibilities of Princess Victoria Eugenie being a carrier of the disease and of course passing it on, but his heart ruled.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I believe Meraude gave great evidence that even with no 21st century medical education, that Alexandra with all the hemophilia in her family would be aware of the dangers her daughters might be carrying within their blood.

 

[Bensgal]

As I said, yes they were aware but this awareness didn't cause any hesitation as to marrying. It wasn't a case that Alexandra didn't care whether she spread the disease nor the idea that she was blind to the fact of the possibility of one or more of her daughters passing it on, it was a case of lack of education concerning the disease in its entirety. The forum alexanderpalace.org has wonderful threads dedicated to this very topic. Excellent forum to visit concerning Russia and the Imperial family.

 

[SweetLana]

I don't recall reading that before. Was that in Massie's book or another one? It's good to know that it was at least mentioned during the time and appeared to be somewhat known what was going on within the family. The fact that there were four girls makes me theorize that there had to be at least one who was a carrier, possibly two. The reason I brought it up is because Alexandra didn't seem to think about the possibility of her having a son with hemophilia when she accepted Nicholas' proposal; rather than thinking she just didn't care, I assume it was more like she didn't want to think it was possible and was still operating under the cone of silence about it that had started with Victoria. Perhaps the reason she didn't care so much about marriage for her daughters is she knew the hemophilia issue was going to be a problem for them getting husbands. Also Alexei's illness dominated her life from the day it was discovered he indeed had the disease.

It wasn't Massie's book but Queen Marie, Story of my life. Here is the exact quote:

"When the idea of a marriage between our son, Carol, and Olga, the eldest daughter of the Czar, was proposed, I was more against than for it, because I feared that uncanny illness—hæmophilia—which the women of certain families are supposed to give to their sons. I knew that poor Alix had given this illness to her heir, and I dared not face such a risk for our family. Gladly would I have welcomed one of Nicky's daughters, had it not been for this, as, besides the ties of affection, it was a most flattering proposal, especially as it had been brought forward by the Russian side."

It goes on to describe their visit to Russia and her conversation with Alix regarding the possible match.

 

[fandesacs2003]

There is also the mystery of which daughter was a carrier; I wonder if danger of passing on the disease ever occured to Nicholas and Alexandra? There was a zone of silence when it came to Alix getting married and she appeared to be in denial that she was possibly a carrier.

Intersting. I've read somewhere that Alix knew shwe was a carrier (not strange, Queen Victoria spread hemophilia to all Royal families..) and she was very suffering and feeling guilty that she transmitted to her son. Especially since after 4 daughters this boy came like a heaven gift!

 

[Grandduchess24]

Olga, Tatiana, Marie and Anastasia were all potential brides but I guess the hemophilia gene they carried was a problem.

 

[AristoCat]

Intersting. I've read somewhere that Alix knew shwe was a carrier (not strange, Queen Victoria spread hemophilia to all Royal families..) and she was very suffering and feeling guilty that she transmitted to her son. Especially since after 4 daughters this boy came like a heaven gift!

I do think that Alexandra did know, mainly because she grew up surrounded by it with her family.

 

[Brazilian_Empress]

I think the best will be:

Olga with prince Constantin Constantinovich (KR son);

Tatiana with king Alexander I of Jugoslavia;

Maria with... a minor german prince who would live in Russia\a noble russian man\a romanov relative;

Anastasia with prince Henry of United Kingdom (the duke of Gloucester).

I like think and write "What If?" histories. I wrote 2 with OTMA. One in a world without Russian Revolution and another without WWI. In booth two I arranged these marriages.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

If Prince Edward, The Prince of Wales, would have been able to court either Grand Duchess Olga or Grand Duchess Tatiana, perhaps an engagement and eventual wedding would have occurred.
At least with either Olga or Tatiana married to the heir of King George V of England, both the Prince and Princess of Wales (Edward and Olga {Tatiana}) could have persuaded George V to rescue the Russian Imperial Family.
​

I know that Louis battenburg an uncle of the duke of Edinburgh had a crush on his cousin the grand duchess Maria nikolaievna and that he even kept a picture of her by his bed. Tatiana could have possibly married prince Christopher of Greece and Anastasia could have possibly married crown prince Albert I of Belgium .maria's was true and for tatya it could have been possible as well as Ana.

Did Prince Louis of Battenburg have the correct qualifications to marry an Imperial Grand Duchess of Russia?
​

 

[Ish]

Not saving them was a sacrifice that George VI did in order to do what he felt was necessary in order to save his throne. As it was, he had a close friendship with Nicholas II and was upset at the deaths, even if he had chosen not to prevent them.

 

[Ish]

Did Prince Louis of Battenburg have the correct qualifications to marry an Imperial Grand Duchess of Russia?
​

Um... Probably not.

The Battenburgs were a morganatic cadet branch of the House of Hesse-Darmstadt. It was created when the Grand Duke of Hesse's younger brother, Alexander, entered into a morganatic marriage with Julia Hauke. Julia was first created a Countess of Battenburg, then later a Princess of Battenburg by her brother-in-law, and her children took their titles from her. They weren't included in the line of succession to the Duchy of Hesse.

 

[JR76]

Did Prince Louis of Battenburg have the correct qualifications to marry an Imperial Grand Duchess of Russia?
​

Russian grand duchesses and princesses had been allowed to marry into both the Leuchtenberg, Yusupov and Bagration families before so a marriage to a Battenberg can't be completely discarded. Especially not with Louis who was very closely related to the imperial family.
The main reason for the imperial couple to refuse a marriage between Maria and Louis would have been that they where first cousins and as such not allowed to marry by the Orthodox Church.


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[CyrilVladisla]

In what year did the Grand Duke Boris Vladimirovich propose to the Grand Duchess Olga?
​

 

[Ish]

Wikipedia says that his mother tried to push for a marriage between them in February 1916.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Grand Duchess Olga have a chance to marry in April of 1916 Prince Alexander of Serbia? Helena (Alexander's sister) was married to Ioann Konstantinovich.

In The Romanov Sisters by Helen Rappaport, Prince Adalbert of Bavaria was mentioned as a suitor for Grand Duchess Tatiana.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Peter of Montenegro (born 1889) was the son of King Nicholas I of Montenegro.
Prince Peter could have married Grand Duchess Olga or Grand Duchess Tatiana.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

encyclopedia.com states:
Grand Duchess Olga had been briefly engaged to one of the men who killed the monk, Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, back in 1912, but they drifted apart.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/history...cripts-and-maps/grand-duchess-olga-nikolaevna

Did Olga and Dmitri get engaged back in 1912?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Russian grand duchesses and princesses had been allowed to marry into both the Leuchtenberg, Yusupov and Bagration families before so a marriage to a Battenberg can't be completely discarded. Especially not with Louis who was very closely related to the imperial family.
The main reason for the imperial couple to refuse a marriage between Maria and Louis would have been that they where first cousins and as such not allowed to marry by the Orthodox Church.


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But those members who did marry Leutchenbergs, Yusupovs, and Bagrations weren’t the ones from the ruling branches but junior or cadet branches. It wasn’t just a matter of being closely related (which the Orthodox Church was against), the Battenbergs also weren’t rich. The Bagrations were actually a formerly ruling family so it would have been a much more prestigious match compared to a Battenberg. The Yusupovs were an old family from the Norgai horde who were prominent and became even more prominent when they became part of Russian society, not to mention the wealthiest noble house in all Russias. Even if they weren’t continuing the dynasty, I highly doubt Nicholas would allow for a Battenberg-Romanov match considering how he dealt with a few others for their morganatic marriages.

If Prince Edward, The Prince of Wales, would have been able to court either Grand Duchess Olga or Grand Duchess Tatiana, perhaps an engagement and eventual wedding would have occurred.
At least with either Olga or Tatiana married to the heir of King George V of England, both the Prince and Princess of Wales (Edward and Olga {Tatiana}) could have persuaded George V to rescue the Russian Imperial Family.
​

Did Prince Louis of Battenburg have the correct qualifications to marry an Imperial Grand Duchess of Russia?
​

I don’t think he was much interested in the Romanov princesses. His interests were in married women and American women. Plus personality wise it wouldn’t work, David was a much more worldly and sociable person to the daughters of Nicholas II.

 

[Stefan]

But those members who did marry Leutchenbergs, Yusupovs, and Bagrations weren’t the ones from the ruling branches but junior or cadet branches.

Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaievna, oldest daughter of Emperor Nicholas I. married Maximilian, Duke of Leuchtenberg.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaievna, oldest daughter of Emperor Nicholas I. married Maximilian, Duke of Leuchtenberg.

The Tsar wasn’t happy with the match especially because of the Leutchenberg connections to the Bonapartes, but he allowed it as long as they lived in Russia. After her husband died, she remarried to a Russian Count from the Stroganov family, that marriage was not recognised and she was not permitted to live in Russia. Her brother was aware of the marriage but did not recognise it.