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  #21  
Old 01-25-2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Since Olga didn't want to leave Russia, who knows how things would have ended up
It could easily be the same case as was with Oldenburg and Leuchtenberg families...marry her off to some foreign Prince under the condition to live in Russia...Alexandra's grandmother Victoria did the same with her sons in law,Prince Christian von Schleswig-Holstein and Prince Heinrich von Battenberg!
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2012, 12:15 AM
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In 1914 and 1916 the girls should have been finding husbands and ended up securing the line. Usually at sixteen Romanov girls married and had kids of thier own and there was no shortage of princes that would have made fine husbands.
Well there was a little news event called WWI going on between 1914-1918 you might of heard of. That rather limited the marriage markets for foreign husbands. Most of the male Romanoffs were serving on active duty so that limited national husbands. Had they married Russian aristocrats they would have lost their already limited spot in the succession. Also girls could not pass on succession rights except in the absence of male heirs and at that time the Romanovs had no shortage of males able to succeed to the throne should Alexis fail to survive his father.
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2012, 02:16 AM
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For the love of gawd stop bringing up WWI like we haven't heard of it! We all know WWI occurred in 1914, the point people are making is that long before that Tatiana and Olga's marriage prospects should have been in order, Olga could have been married by 1914; someone else has mentioned that other Russian royal women were being married by 16; Olga was 18 or 19 by the time WWI broke out.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:19 AM
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Alexandra knew it was a possibility because it was so much a part of her family. There is the possibility and I am sure it was there, but who knows. Sometimes it's just one kid that gets it, but then there might eb more. I am optimistic that she might have had a healthy boy, but it was always possible.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi
For the love of gawd stop bringing up WWI like we haven't heard of it! We all know WWI occurred in 1914, the point people are making is that long before that Tatiana and Olga's marriage prospects should have been in order, Olga could have been married by 1914; someone else has mentioned that other Russian royal women were being married by 16; Olga was 18 or 19 by the time WWI broke out.
You took the words right out of my mouth. If not Tatiana, Olga should have been engaged. I'm sure there were many out there considering the daughter of a Tsar. I don't claim to be an expert of the Romanov family, I just find it really strange at 19 she wasn't even engaged or inspected seriously by future mother in laws. I think Alexandra not only ruined Nicholas's reign but also would have probably arranged unsuited marriages and glued the girls by her side. Not to mention perhaps no one liked the idea of Alexandra as mother in law lol - bad omen? The girls said "I never want to leave Russia or convert" oh come on, I think 80% of princesses said the same thing as potential brides.......Her mum had the same difficulty. I don't think that was the reason she was unmarried. Something tells me the big pair would have had dysfunctional marriages with Alexandra over involved anyway.
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  #26  
Old 01-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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I do remmeber that Alexndra pushed her friend Anna Vyrubova into an unpleasant marriage, which was annulled based on non-consummation so quite frankly her matchmaking skills were more than a little questionable.
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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For the record The Tsars sisters Xenia and Olga both married at age 19, in Olga's case rather unwillingly, so the Tsars daughters were not exactly old maids as far as the marriage market went. The Empress herself was 22 when she married the Tsar. Had not the war interferred it is quite possible suitable husbands could have been found. I am not convinced the Empress would have stopped them from marrying but do not think either parent would have forced them into marriages of convenience just to have them married.
Since Nicholas allowed his sister Olga to divorce and remarry to a Russian commoner during the war it is possible if the monarchy had survived he may have alllowed his daughters more freedom to marry members of the aristocracy after the war. There would certainly have been no appetite for a German spouse after the war so marriage to a Russian with a good war record may have proved quite popular, especially if Russia had moved to a more limited constitutional monarchy. JMO.
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  #28  
Old 01-26-2012, 01:13 PM
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Nicholas was pretty much under Alexandra's thumb and she was determinedly keeping her daughters emotionally and psychologically immature. She wasn't really sounding like she was grooming them for marriage. Why else would the girls sound so immature according to their captors and why would Alexandra refuse a perfectly legitimate marriage proposal to Grand Duke Boris Vladirmirovich?
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  #29  
Old 01-26-2012, 07:48 PM
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Crown prince Carol of Romania and the future Edward VIII and Alexander I of Yugoslavia were suitors that were proposed to her but she "wanted to marry a Russian and stay in Russia" so I thought why the czar and czarina never throught about HIH grand duke Constantine constantinovich who actually had a crush on Olga but unfortunately both olga and Constantine died in 1918 at the hands of the Bolsheviks.also a one time fiancee was grand duke dmitri pavlovich but it was called off due to the rasputin thing .

Grand duchess Tatiana was of marriable age but who could have been their husbands if they had not died in 1918.
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  #30  
Old 01-26-2012, 08:24 PM
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Boris didnt have the best reputaion, being something of a well known rake. Also his clan, the Vladimirs, were not exactly the most popular with Nicholas and Alexandra so refusing his suggested proposal seems pretty reasonable if the parents were more concerned about their daughters happiness rather than forcing a dynastic marriage on them.
Given how Carol of Roumania treated his wives there is no reason to suspect he would have treated a Russian Grand Duchess any better, although obviously if Olga had married him she would at least have survived the revolution
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  #31  
Old 01-26-2012, 08:41 PM
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Well, the Vladimirs were known to be incredibly ambitious.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2012, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat
Well, the Vladimirs were known to be incredibly ambitious.
Well said. That's another interesting topic to discuss actually on another thread.
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2012, 12:36 AM
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It is sad when I think how short and tragic were the lives of these four sisters. I recall reading in Nicholas and Alexandra about a ball given by the Dowager Empress for her granddaughters and how excited they were to attend and how they chattered about it on the train ride back to Tsarskoe Selo and how it was Nicholas who accompanied them back in the early morning hours because Alexandra either left early or never attended at all. And that is why there were no suitors for the oldest two. Alexandra never took an interest in arranging any matches for them and because of the cloistered life led by the young grand duchesses, they never really encountered any contemporaries or beaux.

I also recall reading that if the girls were out in public and encountered a friend, acquaintance or even talked to a stranger, the secret police would then pull that individual aside after the grand duchess had left and interrogate the poor person about the nature of the conversation, how they knew the royal personage, etc. It is no wonder that the grand duchesses were reluctant to even acknowledge people in public because they eventually learned that those very people would be questioned by the police.

So, if it wasn't Alexandra's social phobia, it was the secret police who also made their social life difficult. I guess some consolation must come from the probably correct observation that they enjoyed their intimate family life. But if that was all they knew, one can only wonder what might have been if their imperial highnesses were allowed to see more of the world outside the Alexander Palace.
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2012, 05:11 PM
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I know that Louis battenburg an uncle of the duke of Edinburgh had a crush on his cousin the grand duchess Maria nikolaievna and that he even kept a picture of her by his bed. Tatiana could have possibly married prince Christopher of Greece and Anastasia could have possibly married crown prince Albert I of Belgium .maria's was true and for tatya it could have been possible as well as Ana.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2012, 06:39 PM
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Albert I of Belgium was too old for Tatiana (he was 22 years older than her), and by the way he was already married, to Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria.
Maybe, were you thinking to their son Leopold (the future King Leopold III)?
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  #36  
Old 02-03-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
There is also the mystery of which daughter was a carrier; I wonder if danger of passing on the disease ever occured to Nicholas and Alexandra? There was a zone of silence when it came to Alix getting married and she appeared to be in denial that she was possibly a carrier.
I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.
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  #37  
Old 02-04-2012, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SweetLana

I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.
So the discussion on whether or not Alexei's illness was known through out the royal houses of Europe is also valid. It seems highly likely that the elder daughters of Nicholas were not seriously taken or people were hesitant as it is apparent no monarch wanted the possibility of haemophilia in their successive line. I wouldn't either. If not the reason, Alix it seems intentionally or unintentionally she ruined her daughters prospects. Is there anything Alix didn't ruin?
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SweetLana View Post
I was reading in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs that the question if any of the tsar's daughters was a carrier of hemophilia was an issue when Olga was considered a possible bride for Carol. We don't know whether Nicholas and Alexandra were considering this but apparently other royal families were concerned over this possibility.
I don't recall reading that before. Was that in Massie's book or another one? It's good to know that it was at least mentioned during the time and appeared to be somewhat known what was going on within the family. The fact that there were four girls makes me theorize that there had to be at least one who was a carrier, possibly two. The reason I brought it up is because Alexandra didn't seem to think about the possibility of her having a son with hemophilia when she accepted Nicholas' proposal; rather than thinking she just didn't care, I assume it was more like she didn't want to think it was possible and was still operating under the cone of silence about it that had started with Victoria. Perhaps the reason she didn't care so much about marriage for her daughters is she knew the hemophilia issue was going to be a problem for them getting husbands. Also Alexei's illness dominated her life from the day it was discovered he indeed had the disease.

The romantic in me imagines Marie marrying Dickie (homeboy had a picture of her until his death. You can't say that isn't love) and I don't care if he wasn't royal enough for an Emperor's daughter. Tatiana marries David, I think Olga would be better suited, but she seemed adamant about remaining in Russia. Despite Alexandra seemingly hating them, if Olga is going to stay in Russia she is going to have to marry one of her cousins or second cousins or 14th cousins twice removed but I'm still important enough to have a title.
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  #39  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:04 AM
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I don't believe it was a lack of caring whether hemophilia spread on Alexandra's part more a lack of education of society in general. What we know now about the disease, of course wasn't known then.
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  #40  
Old 02-06-2012, 05:00 PM
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I don't believe it was a lack of caring whether hemophilia spread on Alexandra's part more a lack of education of society in general. What we know now about the disease, of course wasn't known then.
Even if there wasn't as much knowledge about hemophilia in the beginning of the 20th century, Alexandra had had a brother and a nephew who had died young and also had an uncle, a couple of cousins and sons to her female cousins with hemophilia, so it's not surprising if other royals would be speculating if there could be something "wrong" with Alexandra's daughters and not be interested in having them as daughters-in-law.
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