The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:45 PM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
In Polish that mean:
Tsar - Emperor - Car, Imperator;
Tsaritsa - Empress - Caryca or Cesarzowa as a wife or as a ruler (like Catherine II), or Carowa;
Tsarevich - Carewicz - (from Tsar) it was used as heir to the throne, Emperor's son or just a prince;
Tsarevna - Carewna - (from Tsar) Emperor's daughter;
Grand Duchess - Wielka Księżna - used as Emperor's daughter, granddaughter or GDuke's wife;
Grand Duke - Wielki Książę - Emperor's son, grandson;
Prince - Książę - used to Tsarevitch or any other Prince: like grandson of the Emperor or Grand Duke;
Princess - Księżniczka - the same as Prince.

On Russian:
царь - from Latin Caesar, was in using from 1547 to 1721;
Император - Emperor using 1721 - 1917 - from Peter I the Great
Царица - Imperator's wife
Цесаревич - Tsarevitch - Heir to the throne since 1797 (Alexander I)
Царевич - Tsarevitch, Tsar's son
Царевна - Tsarevna, Tsar's daughter
Цесаревна - Tsitsarevna, Tsarevitch's wife
Великий князь - Grand Duke, first as ruler, from 1791? so Emperor's son;
Кронпри́нц - (German- Kronprinz, Russian- принц (князь) короны ), in Russia it was be used to some second Emperor's sons /heir to the throne/ ; it was used to Charlotte of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel - wife of Alexei son of Peter the Great.
Князь - (from KONb - horse) Принц - Knyaz - smth. like Duke or Prince.
Княгиня - Knyagina
княжич - Knyagitch , Knyaz's son
княжна - Knyagna, Knyaz's daughter
Граф - Graf, Count; in Russia Peter the Great use this title in 1706 to Boris Petrovitch Sheremetyev. On XIXth century in Russia were about 300 county familiies.
Барон - Baron; in Russia Peter the Great use it in 1710 to Schafirov. On XIXth century in Russia were 240 baronial families.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-10-2006, 08:06 PM
Leslie2006's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, United States
Posts: 445
Thanks for the reminder, magnik...I forgot count/countess

Nicholas II's youngest brother, Mikhail married a commoner Natalia Sheremetevskaya. After they were allowed back into Russia, Nicholas created Natalia and their son (Vladimir?) Countess and Count Barissova. (I might've mispelled that). Does anyone know who in the Imperial family would hold the title Prince/Princess of the Imperial Blood and what would their relation be? (cousin, relative by marriage?)

Thanks. :)
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-10-2006, 08:45 PM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie2006
Nicholas II's youngest brother, Mikhail married a commoner Natalia Sheremetevskaya. After they were allowed back into Russia, Nicholas created Natalia and their son (Vladimir?) Countess and Count Barissova. (I might've mispelled that).
Does anyone know who in the Imperial family would hold the title Prince/Princess of the Imperial Blood and what would their relation be? (cousin, relative by marriage?)

Yes Natalia Sergeyevna Wulffert nee Sheremetevskaya was twice=divorced commoner. She and her son (died in a car crash on 1931) were created Css&Ct Brasov.She was granted the title of HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brasova by HIH GD Cyril on 1935.

About Romanovs more here:
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/russia.html


From Wikipedia:
A Prince of the blood (in some monarchies, however, this is an actual title in its own right, of more restricted use; thus Prince du sang in the French kingdom, restricted to the royal descendents in the male line) is a male member of royalty, i.e. of a princely house, such as an imperial - or royal family. Depending on individual national tradition, this may either be restricted (often to one or two generations after the monarch, and/or the line of succession), or it may be allowed to run into very high numbers (as often applies in oriental dynasties).
Generally, when such a prince takes a (royal, imperial, etc.) throne he stops being styled a mere "Prince" when he becomes the ruling (or at least titular) monarch, King, Emperor, Grand Duke or one of many other ruler-styles, usually of higher rank, except in the case of a ruler styled "Prince" (see below) of a principality (idem: "Princess" becoming a Queen).[...]
Regardless of birth rank, marriage to a prince(ss) generally means accession to the ruling house (dynasty), but often the princely style is subject to an explicit conferral (by the Monarch or a political authority with in say in the succession, e.g. certain parliaments), which may be delayed, withheld or even reversed.[...]
Although the definition above is the one that is most commonly understood, there are also different systems: depending on country, epoch and translation other meanings of "Prince" are possible. Over the centuries foreign-language titles such as Italian principe, French prince, German Fürst, Russian kniaz, etc., are often rendered as "prince" in English.
Many princely styles and titles are used in various monarchies, often changing with a new dynasty, even altered during one's rule, especially in conjunction with the style of the ruler. Indeed, various princely titles are derived from the ruler's, such as (e)mirza(da), khanzada, nawabzada, sahibzada, shahzada (all using the Persian patronymic suffix -zada, "son, descendant", (maha)rajkumar from Raja, or even from a unique title, e.g. mehtarjao. However, often such style is used in a way that may surprise as not apparently logical, such as adopting a style for princes of the blood which is not pegged to the ruler's title, but rather continues an old tradition, asserts genealogical descendency from and/or claim of political succession to a more lofty monarchy, or simply is assumed 'because we can'.
  • Sometimes a specific title is commonly used by various dynasties in a region, e.g. Mian in various of the Punjabi princely Hill States (lower Himalayan region in British India)
  • Some monarchies also commonly awarded some of their princes of the blood various lofty titles, some of which were reserved for royalty, other also open to the most trusted commoners and/or the highest nobility, as in the Byzantine empire (e.g. Protosebastos reserved).
Independently of such traditions, some dynasties more or less frequently awarded apanages to princes of the blood, typically carrying a feudal type title (often as such of lower protocollary rank than their birth rank) and some income.[...]
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-16-2006, 05:56 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Forks, United States
Posts: 1
For pronunciation purposes, the word его (his in Russian) is pronounced yevoh while the letter ж sounds like the second g in garage or the g in mirage. I have seen some discrepencies in how some of these words are translated on this board. This could be from strict transliteration, but words such as его may not be properly (and often aren't) transliterated if the person is using a computer transliterating system.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-18-2006, 09:07 PM
RussianHistoryBuff's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: HHI, United States
Posts: 18
For Everyone Wondering What a Czar or Tsar Is (There are sveral different spellings)

There is a common misconseption concerning what a Czar, Czaritsa, Czarevich, and Czarevna is.
First, a Czar is equivilent to a King and Emperor. Peter the Great (Peter Alexeevich Romanovich) was the first Czar however to accept the title Czar and EMPEROR of All Russias. He accepted this title after he defeated the Swedes. The title lasted until 1918.
Second, a Czaritsa is equivelent to a Queen and Empress. Most people are confused because they do not open a Russian dictionary to find out that a Czarina is a widowed Czaritsa.
Third, a Czrarevich is a Grand Duke. During the reign of Alexander III a Czarevich (or Czarevna) became a term used only for the immediate family of the Czar.
Fourth, a Czarevna is a Grand Duchess, and the same "rule" concerning titles came into effect for the Czarevnas during the reign of Alexander III.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-29-2006, 11:51 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: home, United States
Posts: 3
you just arent whistling dixie!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireweaver
And I thought the British system was confusing... oy!
\


my grandmother was titled princess third cousin to tzar....left in 1916 when she married a jew...lol oy you say!!:)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-30-2006, 10:56 AM
juliamontague's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: .., Germany
Posts: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by carol_romanoff
\


my grandmother was titled princess third cousin to tzar....left in 1916 when she married a jew...lol oy you say!!:)
lol your grandmother?
__________________

"Looking back on her short life I often wonder why we did not see that she was quite too good for this world, her fit companions were the Angels." ~Margaretta Eager about Princess Elisabeth of Hesse (1895-1903)
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-11-2006, 03:53 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianHistoryBuff
...
Second, a Czaritsa is equivelent to a Queen and Empress. Most people are confused because they do not open a Russian dictionary to find out that a Czarina is a widowed Czaritsa.
...
I am from Russia, and I assure you that there is no such word as 'czarina', царина, in any of the dictionaries of Russian. It doesn't matter whether the empress was widowed or not -- she was called царица, 'tsaritsa'.

'Tsarina' is an example of mistranslation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianHistoryBuff
...
Third, a Czrarevich is a Grand Duke. During the reign of Alexander III a Czarevich (or Czarevna) became a term used only for the immediate family of the Czar.
Fourth, a Czarevna is a Grand Duchess, and the same "rule" concerning titles came into effect for the Czarevnas during the reign of Alexander III.
That is manifestly incorrect; no Grand Duke from the times of Alexander III has ever been called 'Tsarevich' in any official document etc. The same goes for the Grand Duchesses.

On the other hand, Tsesarevich was a title for a Grand Duke who was an heir to the Russian throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-13-2006, 10:46 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LA, United States
Posts: 6
question on Russian titles

can anyone answer this question for me, my girlfriend just married a Russian Count who is one of 6 sons. If he is a count, his new wife would be a countess correct? His mother is saying that firstly as long as she is alive there is no other countess, then she said only the eldest sons wife holds the title. If the sons are all counts, wouldnt all the wives be countess. You cant have a count such and such and his wife mrs. Right? thanks kay
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-14-2006, 11:19 AM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
There were two forms of nobility in the Russian Empire: hereditary and personal. Whereas Hereditary nobility passed down to subsequent generations, personal nobility could not be inherited from the person who was awarded the status of personal nobleman. This article focuses on the specific registration of hereditary nobility in the Russian Empire.
According to Russian Nobility Law, every member of each generation of an inheredited noble, had to be registered in one of the following six parts of the provincial Noble Register (Noble Genealogical Book).

From: http://feefhs.org/blitz/HEREDITARY_NOBILITY.htm

More you can find in Glagoleva, O. E. (Ol'ga Evgen'evna) "The Illegitimate Children of the Russian Nobility in Law and Practice, 1700-1860".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:20 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LA, United States
Posts: 6
Russian titles

thank you for that, I am quite certain they have verified the status throught he historical society and I am quite sure that it would be hereditary. So if that were the case.... if the sons are indeed counts, then the wives would be countess- correct? I am curious to find out if there are any other rules such as only while the Mother is alive or the eldest sons daughter etc. Thanks again. Kayla
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:44 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LA, United States
Posts: 6
Russian Count/Graf

so Im new at this posting/forum thing so please be patient. I am trying to find clarity on the title of Russian Count/graf and I cant seem to find the right place to post, so hopefully this works...

my friend married a Russian count (verified by the historical society) I am trying to deteriming the rules of the title. his mother says that as long as she is alive that there is only one countess. If that were true then wouldnt that be the same for the men- the sons wouldnt be counts unless the father had passed. If they are counts, which she does acknowlege, then would all of their wives be countess? Are there rule such that only the eldest son and his wife get the title? Kayla
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-15-2006, 01:44 PM
Monna's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: -, Czech Republic
Posts: 178
The official documents of Nikolai II begin in this way:
Божиею милостию Мы Николай Вторый императоръ и самодержецъ всероссийский, царь польский, великий князь финляндский /bozhyeyu milostiyu my Nikolaj Vtoriy imperator y samodyerzhets vsyerossiyskiy tsar polskiy velikiy knyaz finlandskiy/ = we Nikolai II from the grace of God Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russia, Czar (king?) of Poland and Grand Duke of Finland. So I think that these are the official titles of the Emperor.

In the document released after Alexei`s birth the Emperor says his son will have the title наслъдникцесаревич/naslednik tsesarevitch/ = successor of the czar.

And in another document the Empress is titled Государьиня импервтрица /gosudarynya imperatritsa/ = wife of the monarch empress

In Czech that means:
Tsar - Emperor - Car
Tsaritsa - Empress – Carevna
Tsesarevich – Carevič = in Czech the heir of the throne
Tsarevna – there is no term for Emperor
`s daughter, but in the fairy-tails is used the word carevice = Emperor's daughter
Velikiy knyaz - Grand Duke – Velkokníže = Emperor's son, grandson

Velikaya knyazhna - Grand Duchess – Velkokněžna = Emperor's daughter, granddaughter or GDuke's wife;
Prince - Princ
so you can see that the words carevna and carevič don`t have the same meaning like in Russian...confusing
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-18-2006, 01:37 PM
snowmaiden's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Billings, United States
Posts: 6
Thanks for the information. I have been recently trying to figure out how Russian titles work.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-14-2006, 07:52 AM
CasiraghiTrio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burbank, United States
Posts: 6,402
My question is about the so-called title "Prince/Princess of Russia." Some very respectable online geneaologies, including Peerage.com, use this for some of the Romanov descendents. But when did this title come into use? Before the revolution, this was unheard of. There was no such thing.
Another one that is equally confusing is "Prince/Princess Romanov/a" because this, also, was not existing in the true Tsarist times.
Who conferred these new titles? When? Was is only for the purpose of giving a courtesy to the family? Did other royal families recognize these titles? I know, obviously, the Soviet Union could never recognize them.

Prince of Russia?! It's so weird to me! Who made this up and why couldn't they use something that was actually "real" for Russian history?
__________________
Chewsteraghi on Tumblr. Schmichaelira on Twitter. Tumblr aka obsessivechewsteraghidisorder. Be warned: I'm weird.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-20-2006, 05:23 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: tånby, Denmark
Posts: 16
The Emperor and Empress first born son - His Imperial Highness Tsarevich -

Ther second born son - His Imperial Highness Grand Duck. Ther daugthers all

had the same titel - Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess. The Tsars brothers

and sisters had the same titel as his childen. The Tsars brother and sisters

childen - His Highness Prince og Her Higness Princess.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-15-2007, 11:49 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
My question is about the so-called title "Prince/Princess of Russia." Some very respectable online geneaologies, including Peerage.com, use this for some of the Romanov descendents. But when did this title come into use? Before the revolution, this was unheard of. There was no such thing.
Another one that is equally confusing is "Prince/Princess Romanov/a" because this, also, was not existing in the true Tsarist times.
Who conferred these new titles? When? Was is only for the purpose of giving a courtesy to the family? Did other royal families recognize these titles? I know, obviously, the Soviet Union could never recognize them.

Prince of Russia?! It's so weird to me! Who made this up and why couldn't they use something that was actually "real" for Russian history?
The title Prince/ss of Russia, or Prince/Princess of the Blood Imperial was created with Alexander III's ukaze in 1886. He limited the title of Grand Duke/Duchess with the style of Imperial Highness to the children and male line grandchildren of the Emporer. Other family members were Prince/ss with the style of His/Her Highness or His/Her Serene Highness.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-15-2007, 01:17 PM
wittykitty's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 114
I think alot of the distant descendants of the earler Tsars use the Prince/Princess in perputity ? so that commoners in other counties treat them better or are impressed that they are in the company of a Russian
royal descendant?
but didn't Tsar Alexander III change the rules regarding gettting permision for new surnames even if there is a equal marriage so in the future there won't be a million people running around calling themselves Romanovs? today?
witttykitty
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 8
In many Royal Houses it is (or was) common that the title of Prince continued in theory in perpepuity, if the person made an equal marriage. That was also the case with Russian Princes. That has nothing to do with impressing people. Today there are no Russian Princes alive (or most people think so), only their morganatic descendants.
All members of the Imperial Family had the surname Romanov. Alexander III didn't change that.
The title Prince/ss Romanov/a is not and has never been a real title. Morganatic spouses and descendants could sometimes be given a surname that included Romanovski/skaya.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:41 PM
Next Star's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 872
I know that the internet is not the most reliable source of information to go by but the web says that Czar is equal to a King and not a Emperor. I doubt that is true because I have only seen one web page with this claim all other claims I have seen it states a Czar is equal to a Emperor which I do believe.
__________________

__________________
Patience is a virtue.

I'm head of a dynastic house no matter what others say.
Princess Kamorrissa,Countess of Welle
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
russian titles, titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman picture of the month pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:21 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]