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  #41  
Old 06-07-2008, 02:16 PM
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Because my maternal and paternal sides were Germans, who were from a huge range of backgrounds (titled to dirt poor and without property), had migrated to Russia from the time of Catherine II "The Great" to the early 1800s, I have been provided a huge range of views of Russia. Some say I've been blessed with being able to understand the many different levels of Russian society, customs and politics. Some believe it is my curse to have just a huge range of knowledge and not be loyal to one social group.

The "rescue" of the the mother of Nicholas II is just one example. Yes, I understand her personal needs, as she viewed them when she order her trunks of personal items to be taken on board of the British ship. And, I applaud her for making demands for the many people, who were in a panic because they saw her taking leave of Russia with the help of the British, to be given transportation from Yalta. However, when I read about the trunks left on dock, my mind immediately turns to the 200 tons of Romanov stuff already on the ships... And, then in my mind's eye I can see the thousands of desperate faces who would never be taken on board because of the 200 tons of stuff....

Of course the British didn't want all those "dirty flea bitten" peasants on the same ship as the Romanovs. And, yes, of course I understand they didn't have the facilities to handle the number of people which could have replaced the 200 tons of Romanov stuff.... And, yes, I've read and heard a hundred (well maybe not a hundred but many) excellent reasons why they couldn't take on board more passengers. But do me a favor. For a moment in your minds eye place a child standing next to one of those trunks left on the dock and then peer into the child's frighten eyes which were reflecting Nicholas II's mother sailing away on the British ship that day.... What kind of feelings does this stir up in your heart?

When the mother of Nicholas II left, the people left behind knew that Russia around them was about to change. Enough people who had already passed through had spread their stories of what had happen to them before they were able to flee.... As far as I know, the only ones who were happy were the revolutionaries and the people who believed the revolution was going to free them from the yoke of depression they had suffered under the Tsars.

The "lucky ones", who sailed away on transportation provided, were dropped off at Constaninople. And, I'm sure the survivors could have a thread about what happen to them because they weren't allowed their "stuff" so most of them just had the clothes they were wearing, a few Russian coins in their pockets and maybe a few pieces of jewelry....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaNikolaievna View Post
The Marlborough was not the only ship carrying people away that day. When word spread that they were leaving on the British ship, people in the town, even very poor people, wanted to go too because they were afraid of the Bolsheviks. It is said that the Dowager Empress would not leave until the British Navy brought in other ships to carry away all those who wanted to refugee out of the Crimea. Many came along, though due to the needs of the warships which had to move onto other duties, the majority of them were put out at the first stop in Constantinople, and to this day there is a poor community of Russian refugees who had to settle there.
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  #42  
Old 09-09-2008, 09:43 PM
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All of Europe was on the verge of revolution, The sailors of German,High Seas Fleet had mutinied,the Russian Navy was certainly in revolt. While not in mutiny, or revolt, the British sailors would have, no doubt been affected, perhaps it was an act of solidarity with their brother sailors. Even US sailors mutinied at the port of Archangel in 1920. Just a thought. Chaz
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  #43  
Old 09-20-2008, 02:02 PM
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When a person reads the books written during those times by people who believed it was time to pull down ALL the Royals, whom they blamed for everything wrong in the world, one will discover all kinds of unrest in the world. Only a few Royal families managed to survive.

Since I'm a USA citizen through and through, I believe, our govt. system is the best. I will never bow down to a royal here. Why? Here we in the USA we are all equals.

If I had lived in those times, I would NEVER have willingly joined the Socialist Party or the Bolshviks who later became known as communists.

I, also, realize that many Russians did not willingly join the ranks of the Bolsheviks/communists but did so to survive. Therefore, I don't believe all Bolsheviks/communists were terrible people. I've learned that I need to view each individual separately.

Leaders like Lenin and Stalin are at the top of my list under the title:

"Bloody Czars"

These two Bolsheviks were selfish men's whose actions took million and millions of lives because of their greed for power and with this power they sought revenge.

This is what I believe: Lenin's personally sent Yurovsky to Ekaterinburg for only one purpose and that was to gain his revenge by killing Nicholas II and his family.

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  #44  
Old 09-20-2008, 04:17 PM
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You are right, many were idealists, other were not. Unfortunately, one ugly system was transposed to another ugly system.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:37 AM
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I'd like to know more about Maria Pavlovna Jr., who was raised in Ella's home. I read her book, "Education of a Princess", but she wrote it shortly after the revolution, in her thirties. What happened to her after that? And her kids, one of whom was from her first marraige (to a prince in one of the Scandinavian countries, I forget which), whom she apparently had no contact with once she got divorced and returned to Russia. She later had a child that died shortly after the revolution, but did she have more? And where did she and her family end up? Does anyone know?
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2009, 01:38 PM
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I'm not sure if there's a thread on her on here or not. She only had two sons, no other children. She was divorced from her second husband. Later in life, she met up with her son Lennart again ( her son by her first marriage to the Prince of Sweden), and lived with him, and I believe died in his home, although they were essentially strangers to each other after so many years, and her living with him was kind of a strained sitiuation. There are a a few books that mention her later life- The Grand Duchesses book published by Eurohistory, and then there's another book I can get the title of- the first book is hard to find.
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  #47  
Old 06-29-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hennybenny View Post
I'd like to know more about Maria Pavlovna Jr., who was raised in Ella's home.
She wrote "A Princess in Exile" after that first book that tells about her later life. For a time, she worked with Chanel in fashion. The 2nd boy, Roman, died as a baby.
Your library should have "A Princess in Exile". They may have it at another branch and it should be easy to get and place a hold on.
I haven't read the book in over a decade so her life is a bit fuzzy to me, sorry. .
If they are published, there is Marie's letters to Prince William, they are called "My Darling Willy".
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  #48  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Princess Elena Petrovna of Russia (born Jelena of Serbia) was imprisoned in Perm I believe. She later was able to leave the country with her two children Vsevolod and Catherine on a Swedish ship, together with her mother-in-law Grand Duches Elisabeth Mavrikievna and Elisabeths two youngest children Prince George and princess Vera of Russia.

Elena's husband, Prince Ioann Constantinovtich was one of the Romanovs that were thrown into the mine at Alapaevsk. Apparently Elena accompanied her husband first, and voluntairily. She left later to take care of her two children though. I wonder why was she allowed to leave? Because she was a Serbian princess maybe?
Yes,it was Serbian ambassador Spalajkovic who helped her leave the country with the secret permission of the Bolsheviks...they allowed her to leave because her father was a King of sovereign country and they didn't want to ruin more already damaged relations for one Princess...
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  #49  
Old 03-06-2010, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Yes,it was Serbian ambassador Spalajkovic who helped her leave the country with the secret permission of the Bolsheviks...they allowed her to leave because her father was a King of sovereign country and they didn't want to ruin more already damaged relations for one Princess...
Although she pushed it, she went to the Bolshies all the time knocking on their doors and disturbing them to make her case to free her husband. She was very lucky they didn't shoot her on the spot. What a brave woman!
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  #50  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:38 AM
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Yes,true,she pushed it and she accompanied him voluntarily...In her exile,she received an apanage as Princess of Yugoslavia until November 1945...

Her exile home was Villa Trianon in from 1919 until 1953.From 1953 it was purchased by the King of Laos and as her Yugoslav apanage also stopped Elena was forced to live in a rented room...

Here are some photos of her exile-home Villa Trianon in Cape Ferrat
in Southern France near Nice:

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691b.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691c.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691d.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691e.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691a.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691g.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691h.jpg

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  #51  
Old 03-06-2010, 03:26 PM
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Thanks for the beautiful photographs of Villa Trianon. It must have been a wonderful place to live!
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  #52  
Old 05-23-2011, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by AGRBear View Post
Because my maternal and paternal sides were Germans, who were from a huge range of backgrounds (titled to dirt poor and without property), had migrated to Russia from the time of Catherine II "The Great" to the early 1800s, I have been provided a huge range of views of Russia. Some say I've been blessed with being able to understand the many different levels of Russian society, customs and politics. Some believe it is my curse to have just a huge range of knowledge and not be loyal to one social group.

The "rescue" of the the mother of Nicholas II is just one example. Yes, I understand her personal needs, as she viewed them when she order her trunks of personal items to be taken on board of the British ship. And, I applaud her for making demands for the many people, who were in a panic because they saw her taking leave of Russia with the help of the British, to be given transportation from Yalta. However, when I read about the trunks left on dock, my mind immediately turns to the 200 tons of Romanov stuff already on the ships... And, then in my mind's eye I can see the thousands of desperate faces who would never be taken on board because of the 200 tons of stuff....

Of course the British didn't want all those "dirty flea bitten" peasants on the same ship as the Romanovs. And, yes, of course I understand they didn't have the facilities to handle the number of people which could have replaced the 200 tons of Romanov stuff.... And, yes, I've read and heard a hundred (well maybe not a hundred but many) excellent reasons why they couldn't take on board more passengers. But do me a favor. For a moment in your minds eye place a child standing next to one of those trunks left on the dock and then peer into the child's frighten eyes which were reflecting Nicholas II's mother sailing away on the British ship that day.... What kind of feelings does this stir up in your heart?

When the mother of Nicholas II left, the people left behind knew that Russia around them was about to change. Enough people who had already passed through had spread their stories of what had happen to them before they were able to flee.... As far as I know, the only ones who were happy were the revolutionaries and the people who believed the revolution was going to free them from the yoke of depression they had suffered under the Tsars.

The "lucky ones", who sailed away on transportation provided, were dropped off at Constaninople. And, I'm sure the survivors could have a thread about what happen to them because they weren't allowed their "stuff" so most of them just had the clothes they were wearing, a few Russian coins in their pockets and maybe a few pieces of jewelry....



AGRBear
While it is truly sad that people were left behind ... they weren't really in danger of being executed by the Bolsheviks were they? They were not Romanovs or of the royal family. They may have feared the Bolsheviks and did not want to be under their regime but the Bolsheviks weren't hunting down regular people. They were looking for royals.
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  #53  
Old 05-23-2011, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by petiteroyale View Post
While it is truly sad that people were left behind ... they weren't really in danger of being executed by the Bolsheviks were they? They were not Romanovs or of the royal family. They may have feared the Bolsheviks and did not want to be under their regime but the Bolsheviks weren't hunting down regular people. They were looking for royals.
You are probably joking...Bolsheviks killed a lot of innocent who were more or less independent in their thinking or had even very small properties and send a lot of people to die in bloody camps of concentration,like Gulag...the royals and aristocracy were just at the beginning of the massive extermination
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
You are probably joking...Bolsheviks killed a lot of innocent who were more or less independent in their thinking or had even very small properties and send a lot of people to die in bloody camps of concentration,like Gulag...the royals and aristocracy were just at the beginning of the massive extermination
True!

I don't know where the level of this particular thread is heading,but certainly not into a direction desired nor thruthfull,just plain meaningless ignorant but maybe willing to learn if they'd read more......Really...

It is believed over 20 million people and more lost their lives at the orders of Stalin alone.More then any Tsar was wrongly accused off...
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2011, 12:37 PM
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I will hazard some guesses. I believe that Tatiana, who was considered the most stylish of the tsar's daughters and perhaps the closest emotionally to her mother, is seated to the Tsarina's left at F8. If I am correct, then Olga, the eldest, would be at F2. To her immediate left is Anastasia, which then would put Marie at F4.

You may be correct that Anna Vyrubova is F1. It certainly resembles her as she was stout in photographs which I have seen. And from the link you have posted, it appears that the man with the glorious mustache may be Count Vladimir Fredericks.
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  #56  
Old 05-24-2011, 08:42 AM
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Hi
I too had got Titania and Anastasia and concur with you. It was Olga and Maria I had trouble with and I had transposed them with regards your opinion. I had them the other way round. But I will look at them again now.

I've also just found the correct story on their demise. I went wrong as I read this page on the Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich.

Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the author talking about 'the women', I had thought this referred to the Czar and Czarina and the Duchesses and this was how they died.

Now I've read how they really died, I'm struck at how violent it was. It's not a nice thing to read and think about. :-(

Thanks for your help vasily, I don't think I'd have got them all without you. Of course, if anyone else has anything to add???

Cheers
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2011, 03:43 PM
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Anna Virubova Taneieff

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Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Anna Vyrubova, best friend of Alexandra, was first arrested by Kerensky on suspicion of being guilty of in league with Rasputin to overthrow the gov't. As fate would have it, she was in prison when the Romanovs were sent to Siberia, so she couldn't go with them. She was released by the Provisional Gov't after a few months, but imprisoned by the Bolsheviks several times. She had one of the more theatrical and interesting escapes- on her way to be executed, she managed to lose herself in the city crowd with the help of some old friends and fans of her father who just happened to be there (he was a composer) Though she got away, she still spent a long time hiding in horrible conditions and frightening situations, in and out of prison and in frequent danger. She was finally able to leave Russia in Dec. 1920 when her mother sold her last necklace to pay for their passage on a boat which snuck refugees over to Finland. She eventually became a nun and lived to be 80 years old.
Anna Virubova lived in Finland under name Anna Taneieff. She wrote her memoirs and had very interesting private photografs of the imperial family. She became secretly a nun with name Maria but could not take part monastery life because of her bad health. She got a small pension from Louise - the Queen of Sweden who was the sister´s daughter of Alexandra Fjodorovna. She lived in a small first floor apartment at Topeliuksenkatu in Helsinki. She died 20.7.1964.
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  #58  
Old 06-05-2011, 04:51 PM
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Anna Virubova lived in Finland under name Anna Taneieff. She wrote her memoirs and had very interesting private photografs of the imperial family. She became secretly a nun with name Maria but could not take part monastery life because of her bad health. She got a small pension from Louise - the Queen of Sweden who was the sister´s daughter of Alexandra Fjodorovna. She lived in a small first floor apartment at Topeliuksenkatu in Helsinki. She died 20.7.1964.
You are correct that Louise was the daughter of Victoria, eldest sister of Empress Alexandra. Victoria was also the grandmother of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. I believe Louise and her mother were visiting Russia when the war broke out and had a somewhat harrowing adventure trying to obtain safe passage back to England.

I never knew Louise gave a small pension to Anna. That is pretty remarkable as Louise did not become Crown Princess of Sweden until her marriage in 1923, 6 years after the revolution, and did not become Queen until 1950. Do you know when Louise set up the pension?
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  #59  
Old 07-04-2011, 06:35 PM
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I'm impressed at how the Romanovs all got jobs and started to work, rather than just sit around. Some of the princesses married socially ambitious millionaires in the US and some became butlers, valets, ladies maids, and salespeople. The Greek royals just married rich and made a couple lucky dynastic matches.
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  #60  
Old 07-04-2011, 09:49 PM
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I'm impressed at how the Romanovs all got jobs and started to work, rather than just sit around. Some of the princesses married socially ambitious millionaires in the US and some became butlers, valets, ladies maids, and salespeople. The Greek royals just married rich and made a couple lucky dynastic matches.
Grand Duke Dmitri married a very rich woman but unfortunately died at the age of 49. I don't know if his descendants were able to hold on to the money through the years.
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