Romanovs and the Revolution: What Happened and How Did the Survivors Manage?


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Does anyone know how many traveling trunks (taken aboard and left) there were?

I am sure there were a lot, so, I think it's quite possible that the servents had a good reason to be afraid because if all the trunks had been loaded I bet there wouldn't have been any room for anyone, including the Captain. :rolleyes:

AGRBear
 
The HMS Marlborough was a 25,000 ton battleship. Plenty of room for the Dowager Empress's trunks, and plenty of crew (over 900) to help get them aboard.
See here.

ETA.. added image of HMS Marlborough. Photograph courtesy of Wikipedia, free use provision.
 

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We could also wonder why the crew of the warship didn't lend a hand in getting the chests on board. It's hard to believe they just stood around watching. More likely, a romantic version was told to the family and the Marlborough's captain had a different story. Note that Princess Olga chooses her words carefully: "the Dowager Empress is believed to have said..."

Thanks, Warren. I appreciate your remark. It's definitely necessary to be aware of the precise expression. Danke.
 
The HMS Marlborough was a 25,000 ton battleship. Plenty of room for the Dowager Empress's trunks, and plenty of crew (over 900) to help get them aboard.
See here.

ETA.. added image of HMS Marlborough. Photograph courtesy of Wikipedia, free use provision.

As the Dowager Empress insisted that everybody (family/friends/servants) should get the possibility to leave the Crimea, there were numerous guests on board: among others Roman with his parents (Pjotr Romanov and Militza von Montenegro, his aunt Xenia, his uncle Nikolascha (Nikolai the Younger) and his aunt Stana (Anastasia of Montenegro), two elderly ladies the Princess Dolorukaja and the Princess Jusupowa, etc. Not to mention the servants.

Captain Johnson had to get additional supplies from Sewastopol as well as another dozen seamen. The number of passengers was by far higher than forseen by the Admirality. Therefor it might have been a bit cramped.
 
The Marlborough was not the only ship carrying people away that day. When word spread that they were leaving on the British ship, people in the town, even very poor people, wanted to go too because they were afraid of the Bolsheviks. It is said that the Dowager Empress would not leave until the British Navy brought in other ships to carry away all those who wanted to refugee out of the Crimea. Many came along, though due to the needs of the warships which had to move onto other duties, the majority of them were put out at the first stop in Constantinople, and to this day there is a poor community of Russian refugees who had to settle there.
 
THE FLIGHT OF THE ROMANOVSby Perry and Pleshakov p. 217:

>>The [Dowager] Empress had agreed to leave but only on the condition that the British take aboard their ships all the sick and wounded and all other people in Yalta wanting to get out of Russia. Minnie said that a Russian empress could not flee if so many Russians were abandoned.<<

>><<Bending their instructions in order to meet the demands of the dowager, the British managed to gather the requiste number of ships to take aboard all in Yalta wanting to leave, and those who were to go gathered on the mole.>>"It was a sad sight: all those refugees, most of whom were old and sick, and all of whom were crushed by grief at leaving their homeland, sitting on bundles and rugs (trucks were fobidden) as they waited to be taken aboard the steamers." Instead of the Marlbourgh sailing first as had been the plan, the ship lifted anchor only after the last steamer had embarked its crowd of refugees. And so the dowager,"like a mother, covered the retreat of her children."<<

Date of embarkation was 8 April 1919.

I am sure that the people, who were given the area where the dowager trunks with her silver, were extremely grateful.

Has there ever been published the number of people, who weren't connected with the Romanovs, were on all of these ships and steamers?

In another book I've read about this was in Hall's LITTLE MOTHER OF RUSSIA. On page 319, he write:

>>After dark they sailed for Yalta, where the ships guns covered the port as the evacuation continued for another three days. When the rumors spread tht the Dowager Empress was leaving panic set in. People abandoned all their possessions and hurried to the waterfront to try and get on the Allied ships. Dagmar insisted that the Marlborugh must be last to leave and said she would personally explain to Admiral Calthorpe why they were late arriving in Constantinople.<<

>>As the Bolsheviks closed in, Dagmar was besieged by people begging to be taken on board which, to her distress, she found was impossible. People streamed onto Yalta pier in ever-increaing numbers. In the chaos and panic families became separated and many of the refugees had only the clothes they stood up in.<<

>>There were nineteen members of the Imperial family with their maids, manservants, governesses and officials of their households; in addition to 1,170 crew, 200 tons of luggage and a fortune in jewels. <<

Date of embarkation from Yalta was 11 April 1919

How many lives weren't saved because the Romanovs couldn't part with 200 tones of luggage or their dogs or their cats..?

Yes, perhaps my tone is a bit curt but then I feel I have a good reason because my relatives, who were left on the docks, were never heard from again, because the Bolsheviks starved them [mostly the very young, women, old men) to death (they didn't allow anyone to feed "kulacks") and executed the husbands and son. These people had remained loyal to the Romanovs, despite their flaws and their inability to understand the needs of their faithful.

One particular relative, who refused to allow the Bolsheviks to take his beautiful horses, drove them to the beach and then into the sea. The last anyone saw him or his horses was as they vanished on the horizon....

AGRBear
 
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How many lives weren't saved because the Romanovs couldn't part with 200 tones of luggage or their dogs or their cats..?
None, because the poor people would not have been on the same ship with the Romanovs anyway, but their luggage would.
One particular relative, who refused to allow the Bolsheviks to take his beautiful horses, drove them to the beach and then into the sea. The last anyone saw him or his horses was as they vanished on the horizon.... AGRBear
I would have done the same! What a moving story. How did you find out, did someone eventually escape? Tell us what happened please.
 
My grandmother saved all of the letters from the family and placed them in a trunk. From time to time she would pull them out and read to the family these letters. Tears always rolled down her cheeks as she voiced the words from her family and freinds who had lived in Russia.

One of my good friends known as Curious One over on AP and known as Remmick on my forum has a story on her web site about one of her great uncles and his family. The last letter their family recieved was that the great uncle had been sent off to the salt mines in Siberia and his family (wife and a number of children) were left to fend for themselves. The Bolsheviks gave the villagers orders that NO ONE was to give her great uncle's family any food because they were they were "kulacks". The last letter from the great uncles's wife told how the children were eating the ends of their fingers off and that all of them would probably be dead by the time the letter reached Remmick's grandparents living in the USA.

Our family stories are not unusual. More information can be found at the North Dakota State University where a Michael Miller is the head of the preservation of the history of the German-Russian who migrated to the mid-west. They have huge collections of letters written as the Bolsheviks moved into the German-Russian colonies which existed all across Russia. Here are three excellent web sites to visit.

GRHC (North Dakota State University's Heritage Collection)
Germans from Russia Heritage Collection

GRHS (German-Russian History Society at Bismarck, ND)
Germans from Russia Heritage Society
and
AHSGR (American Historical Society of Germans From Russia at Lincoln, Nebraska)
AHSGR



For any farther information, since this thread is about the Romanovs, please visit my forum and Remmick's threads about the German-Russians.
RomanovsRussia :: Login

AGRBear
 
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Here are two excellent web sites which carry a great deal of informtion about the rescues of the Romanovs.

THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS: SURVIVORS:
Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

And under the Alexander Palace's section on History: The Resue of the Romanovs from Yalta - 1919

Rescue of the Imperial family from Yalta 1919 - Alexander Palace Time Machine

Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

>>GROUP IX

.... In February 1918, this group was split and the major members, including the Dowager Empress, were placed under detention at the Villa Dulber near Yalta. The following month they were freed by the Germans who had occupied the area after signing the Treaty of Brest Litovsk. In the summer of 1918 they were moved to the Villa Harax near Sevastopol and joined the Ai Todor group in March 1919.<<

Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

Although the Romanovs were saved by the Germans, they were not pleased, in fact, they were embarrassed having been saved by their enemy, the Germans.

Anyone know who the German officer was in charge of this rescue?

AGRBear
 
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Thank you for the information, that is very interesting. How exciting it must be to have such stories in your own family and to be a part of history.
 
Because my maternal and paternal sides were Germans, who were from a huge range of backgrounds (titled to dirt poor and without property), had migrated to Russia from the time of Catherine II "The Great" to the early 1800s, I have been provided a huge range of views of Russia. Some say I've been blessed with being able to understand the many different levels of Russian society, customs and politics. Some believe it is my curse to have just a huge range of knowledge and not be loyal to one social group.

The "rescue" of the the mother of Nicholas II is just one example. Yes, I understand her personal needs, as she viewed them when she order her trunks of personal items to be taken on board of the British ship. And, I applaud her for making demands for the many people, who were in a panic because they saw her taking leave of Russia with the help of the British, to be given transportation from Yalta. However, when I read about the trunks left on dock, my mind immediately turns to the 200 tons of Romanov stuff already on the ships... And, then in my mind's eye I can see the thousands of desperate faces who would never be taken on board because of the 200 tons of stuff....

Of course the British didn't want all those "dirty flea bitten" peasants on the same ship as the Romanovs. And, yes, of course I understand they didn't have the facilities to handle the number of people which could have replaced the 200 tons of Romanov stuff.... And, yes, I've read and heard a hundred (well maybe not a hundred but many) excellent reasons why they couldn't take on board more passengers. But do me a favor. For a moment in your minds eye place a child standing next to one of those trunks left on the dock and then peer into the child's frighten eyes which were reflecting Nicholas II's mother sailing away on the British ship that day.... What kind of feelings does this stir up in your heart?

When the mother of Nicholas II left, the people left behind knew that Russia around them was about to change. Enough people who had already passed through had spread their stories of what had happen to them before they were able to flee.... As far as I know, the only ones who were happy were the revolutionaries and the people who believed the revolution was going to free them from the yoke of depression they had suffered under the Tsars.

The "lucky ones", who sailed away on transportation provided, were dropped off at Constaninople. And, I'm sure the survivors could have a thread about what happen to them because they weren't allowed their "stuff" so most of them just had the clothes they were wearing, a few Russian coins in their pockets and maybe a few pieces of jewelry....

The Marlborough was not the only ship carrying people away that day. When word spread that they were leaving on the British ship, people in the town, even very poor people, wanted to go too because they were afraid of the Bolsheviks. It is said that the Dowager Empress would not leave until the British Navy brought in other ships to carry away all those who wanted to refugee out of the Crimea. Many came along, though due to the needs of the warships which had to move onto other duties, the majority of them were put out at the first stop in Constantinople, and to this day there is a poor community of Russian refugees who had to settle there.

AGRBear
 
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All of Europe was on the verge of revolution, The sailors of German,High Seas Fleet had mutinied,the Russian Navy was certainly in revolt. While not in mutiny, or revolt, the British sailors would have, no doubt been affected, perhaps it was an act of solidarity with their brother sailors. Even US sailors mutinied at the port of Archangel in 1920. Just a thought. Chaz
 
When a person reads the books written during those times by people who believed it was time to pull down ALL the Royals, whom they blamed for everything wrong in the world, one will discover all kinds of unrest in the world. Only a few Royal families managed to survive.

Since I'm a USA citizen through and through, I believe, our govt. system is the best. I will never bow down to a royal here. Why? Here we in the USA we are all equals.

If I had lived in those times, I would NEVER have willingly joined the Socialist Party or the Bolshviks who later became known as communists.

I, also, realize that many Russians did not willingly join the ranks of the Bolsheviks/communists but did so to survive. Therefore, I don't believe all Bolsheviks/communists were terrible people. I've learned that I need to view each individual separately.

Leaders like Lenin and Stalin are at the top of my list under the title:

"Bloody Czars"

These two Bolsheviks were selfish men's whose actions took million and millions of lives because of their greed for power and with this power they sought revenge.

This is what I believe: Lenin's personally sent Yurovsky to Ekaterinburg for only one purpose and that was to gain his revenge by killing Nicholas II and his family.

AGRBear
 
You are right, many were idealists, other were not. Unfortunately, one ugly system was transposed to another ugly system.
 
I'd like to know more about Maria Pavlovna Jr., who was raised in Ella's home. I read her book, "Education of a Princess", but she wrote it shortly after the revolution, in her thirties. What happened to her after that? And her kids, one of whom was from her first marraige (to a prince in one of the Scandinavian countries, I forget which), whom she apparently had no contact with once she got divorced and returned to Russia. She later had a child that died shortly after the revolution, but did she have more? And where did she and her family end up? Does anyone know?
 
I'm not sure if there's a thread on her on here or not. She only had two sons, no other children. She was divorced from her second husband. Later in life, she met up with her son Lennart again ( her son by her first marriage to the Prince of Sweden), and lived with him, and I believe died in his home, although they were essentially strangers to each other after so many years, and her living with him was kind of a strained sitiuation. There are a a few books that mention her later life- The Grand Duchesses book published by Eurohistory, and then there's another book I can get the title of- the first book is hard to find.
 
I'd like to know more about Maria Pavlovna Jr., who was raised in Ella's home.
She wrote "A Princess in Exile" after that first book that tells about her later life. For a time, she worked with Chanel in fashion. The 2nd boy, Roman, died as a baby.
Your library should have "A Princess in Exile". They may have it at another branch and it should be easy to get and place a hold on.
I haven't read the book in over a decade so her life is a bit fuzzy to me, sorry. .
If they are published, there is Marie's letters to Prince William, they are called "My Darling Willy".
 
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Princess Elena Petrovna of Russia (born Jelena of Serbia) was imprisoned in Perm I believe. She later was able to leave the country with her two children Vsevolod and Catherine on a Swedish ship, together with her mother-in-law Grand Duches Elisabeth Mavrikievna and Elisabeths two youngest children Prince George and princess Vera of Russia.

Elena's husband, Prince Ioann Constantinovtich was one of the Romanovs that were thrown into the mine at Alapaevsk. Apparently Elena accompanied her husband first, and voluntairily. She left later to take care of her two children though. I wonder why was she allowed to leave? Because she was a Serbian princess maybe?

Yes,it was Serbian ambassador Spalajkovic who helped her leave the country with the secret permission of the Bolsheviks...they allowed her to leave because her father was a King of sovereign country and they didn't want to ruin more already damaged relations for one Princess...
 
Yes,it was Serbian ambassador Spalajkovic who helped her leave the country with the secret permission of the Bolsheviks...they allowed her to leave because her father was a King of sovereign country and they didn't want to ruin more already damaged relations for one Princess...
Although she pushed it, she went to the Bolshies all the time knocking on their doors and disturbing them to make her case to free her husband. She was very lucky they didn't shoot her on the spot. What a brave woman!
 
Yes,true,she pushed it and she accompanied him voluntarily...In her exile,she received an apanage as Princess of Yugoslavia until November 1945...

Her exile home was Villa Trianon in from 1919 until 1953.From 1953 it was purchased by the King of Laos and as her Yugoslav apanage also stopped Elena was forced to live in a rented room...

Here are some photos of her exile-home Villa Trianon in Cape Ferrat
in Southern France near Nice:

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691b.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691c.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691d.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691e.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691a.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691g.jpg

http://www.villasoftheworld.com/listings/7691h.jpg

 
:previous:

Thanks for the beautiful photographs of Villa Trianon. It must have been a wonderful place to live!
 
Because my maternal and paternal sides were Germans, who were from a huge range of backgrounds (titled to dirt poor and without property), had migrated to Russia from the time of Catherine II "The Great" to the early 1800s, I have been provided a huge range of views of Russia. Some say I've been blessed with being able to understand the many different levels of Russian society, customs and politics. Some believe it is my curse to have just a huge range of knowledge and not be loyal to one social group.

The "rescue" of the the mother of Nicholas II is just one example. Yes, I understand her personal needs, as she viewed them when she order her trunks of personal items to be taken on board of the British ship. And, I applaud her for making demands for the many people, who were in a panic because they saw her taking leave of Russia with the help of the British, to be given transportation from Yalta. However, when I read about the trunks left on dock, my mind immediately turns to the 200 tons of Romanov stuff already on the ships... And, then in my mind's eye I can see the thousands of desperate faces who would never be taken on board because of the 200 tons of stuff....

Of course the British didn't want all those "dirty flea bitten" peasants on the same ship as the Romanovs. And, yes, of course I understand they didn't have the facilities to handle the number of people which could have replaced the 200 tons of Romanov stuff.... And, yes, I've read and heard a hundred (well maybe not a hundred but many) excellent reasons why they couldn't take on board more passengers. But do me a favor. For a moment in your minds eye place a child standing next to one of those trunks left on the dock and then peer into the child's frighten eyes which were reflecting Nicholas II's mother sailing away on the British ship that day.... What kind of feelings does this stir up in your heart?

When the mother of Nicholas II left, the people left behind knew that Russia around them was about to change. Enough people who had already passed through had spread their stories of what had happen to them before they were able to flee.... As far as I know, the only ones who were happy were the revolutionaries and the people who believed the revolution was going to free them from the yoke of depression they had suffered under the Tsars.

The "lucky ones", who sailed away on transportation provided, were dropped off at Constaninople. And, I'm sure the survivors could have a thread about what happen to them because they weren't allowed their "stuff" so most of them just had the clothes they were wearing, a few Russian coins in their pockets and maybe a few pieces of jewelry....



AGRBear

While it is truly sad that people were left behind ... they weren't really in danger of being executed by the Bolsheviks were they? They were not Romanovs or of the royal family. They may have feared the Bolsheviks and did not want to be under their regime but the Bolsheviks weren't hunting down regular people. They were looking for royals.
 
While it is truly sad that people were left behind ... they weren't really in danger of being executed by the Bolsheviks were they? They were not Romanovs or of the royal family. They may have feared the Bolsheviks and did not want to be under their regime but the Bolsheviks weren't hunting down regular people. They were looking for royals.
You are probably joking...Bolsheviks killed a lot of innocent who were more or less independent in their thinking or had even very small properties and send a lot of people to die in bloody camps of concentration,like Gulag...the royals and aristocracy were just at the beginning of the massive extermination
 
You are probably joking...Bolsheviks killed a lot of innocent who were more or less independent in their thinking or had even very small properties and send a lot of people to die in bloody camps of concentration,like Gulag...the royals and aristocracy were just at the beginning of the massive extermination

True!

I don't know where the level of this particular thread is heading,but certainly not into a direction desired nor thruthfull,just plain meaningless ignorant but maybe willing to learn if they'd read more......Really...

It is believed over 20 million people and more lost their lives at the orders of Stalin alone.More then any Tsar was wrongly accused off...
 
I will hazard some guesses. I believe that Tatiana, who was considered the most stylish of the tsar's daughters and perhaps the closest emotionally to her mother, is seated to the Tsarina's left at F8. If I am correct, then Olga, the eldest, would be at F2. To her immediate left is Anastasia, which then would put Marie at F4.

You may be correct that Anna Vyrubova is F1. It certainly resembles her as she was stout in photographs which I have seen. And from the link you have posted, it appears that the man with the glorious mustache may be Count Vladimir Fredericks.
 
Hi
I too had got Titania and Anastasia and concur with you. It was Olga and Maria I had trouble with and I had transposed them with regards your opinion. I had them the other way round. But I will look at them again now.

I've also just found the correct story on their demise. I went wrong as I read this page on the Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich.

Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the author talking about 'the women', I had thought this referred to the Czar and Czarina and the Duchesses and this was how they died.

Now I've read how they really died, I'm struck at how violent it was. It's not a nice thing to read and think about. :-(

Thanks for your help vasily, I don't think I'd have got them all without you. Of course, if anyone else has anything to add???

Cheers
 
Anna Virubova Taneieff

Anna Vyrubova, best friend of Alexandra, was first arrested by Kerensky on suspicion of being guilty of in league with Rasputin to overthrow the gov't. As fate would have it, she was in prison when the Romanovs were sent to Siberia, so she couldn't go with them. She was released by the Provisional Gov't after a few months, but imprisoned by the Bolsheviks several times. She had one of the more theatrical and interesting escapes- on her way to be executed, she managed to lose herself in the city crowd with the help of some old friends and fans of her father who just happened to be there (he was a composer) Though she got away, she still spent a long time hiding in horrible conditions and frightening situations, in and out of prison and in frequent danger. She was finally able to leave Russia in Dec. 1920 when her mother sold her last necklace to pay for their passage on a boat which snuck refugees over to Finland. She eventually became a nun and lived to be 80 years old.

Anna Virubova lived in Finland under name Anna Taneieff. She wrote her memoirs and had very interesting private photografs of the imperial family. She became secretly a nun with name Maria but could not take part monastery life because of her bad health. She got a small pension from Louise - the Queen of Sweden who was the sister´s daughter of Alexandra Fjodorovna. She lived in a small first floor apartment at Topeliuksenkatu in Helsinki. She died 20.7.1964.
 
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Anna Virubova lived in Finland under name Anna Taneieff. She wrote her memoirs and had very interesting private photografs of the imperial family. She became secretly a nun with name Maria but could not take part monastery life because of her bad health. She got a small pension from Louise - the Queen of Sweden who was the sister´s daughter of Alexandra Fjodorovna. She lived in a small first floor apartment at Topeliuksenkatu in Helsinki. She died 20.7.1964.

You are correct that Louise was the daughter of Victoria, eldest sister of Empress Alexandra. Victoria was also the grandmother of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. I believe Louise and her mother were visiting Russia when the war broke out and had a somewhat harrowing adventure trying to obtain safe passage back to England.

I never knew Louise gave a small pension to Anna. That is pretty remarkable as Louise did not become Crown Princess of Sweden until her marriage in 1923, 6 years after the revolution, and did not become Queen until 1950. Do you know when Louise set up the pension?
 
I'm impressed at how the Romanovs all got jobs and started to work, rather than just sit around. Some of the princesses married socially ambitious millionaires in the US and some became butlers, valets, ladies maids, and salespeople. The Greek royals just married rich and made a couple lucky dynastic matches.
 
I'm impressed at how the Romanovs all got jobs and started to work, rather than just sit around. Some of the princesses married socially ambitious millionaires in the US and some became butlers, valets, ladies maids, and salespeople. The Greek royals just married rich and made a couple lucky dynastic matches.

Grand Duke Dmitri married a very rich woman but unfortunately died at the age of 49. I don't know if his descendants were able to hold on to the money through the years.
 
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