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  #21  
Old 05-10-2008, 06:47 PM
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Most of Grand Duchess Xena's grandsons were well-educated (probably paid for by George V, George VI and Elizabeth II) and they managed to find gainful employment and earn money. Grand Duchess Olga always claimed she was cheated out of her share of the proceeds of their mother's jewels and her descendants reportedly received a settlement from The Queen in the 80's.

The Vladimirovich line married well (Prussia, Singer sewing machine fortune, the British royal family) and probably ended up the most secure financially. The rest were in shocking poverty at times, others relied on the goodwill of Russian monarchists in France, England and the U.S.
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  #22  
Old 05-12-2008, 07:22 PM
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The Vladimirovich line married well (. . . the British royal family)
To whom are you referring? I didn't think any of them married into the BRF.
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  #23  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:34 PM
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Royalty reduced to common work

It is unfortunate that great men and women of Royalty can lose such fortune. Russian Royalty in particular always comes to mind when such topics are discussed. I understand the stress that such a member of Royalty or Nobility suffers in such situations.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2008, 06:39 AM
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To whom are you referring? I didn't think any of them married into the BRF.
I guess Branchg is referring to Grand Duke Kirill who married Princess Victoria Melita of Edinburgh. But that was in 1905.
Their two daughters married well (Leiningen and Prussia), their son Vladimir, more controversially.
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:24 PM
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I guess Branchg is referring to Grand Duke Kirill who married Princess Victoria Melita of Edinburgh. But that was in 1905.
Their two daughters married well (Leiningen and Prussia), their son Vladimir, more controversially.
Oh I forgot about Ducky since she was married before to Ernest Louis.
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:07 PM
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Well, did the British RF 'help' Ducky an her husband any way financially? Sure Queen Mary bought some of the jewels but I do not think they received the support like GD Xenia did for example (maybe they didn't need to of course).
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Old 05-15-2008, 06:10 PM
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GD Xenia was able to leave with her mother on the Marlborough, no? I vaguely recall reading that when she left she looked at the shore and saw glittering lights, which was apparently her silverware (I believe Corine Hall and John van der Kiste's bio mentioned that). Any idea why she put the silverware on the beach in the first place?
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2008, 06:29 AM
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From Royalty Digest Quarterly, #1 2007, by Princess Olga Romanoff:

The escape from Russia

"All of the family silver had been packed into chests for loading and as the ship [HMS Marlborough] sailed away, the captain handed his binoculars to the Dowager Empress for a final glimpse of the Crimea. The Dowager Empress is believed to have said "What are all those little black things along the shore?" "Madam", he replied, "That is your silver!". The servants had been so afraid of being left behind that they had forgotten to load the chests, and she retorted "It doesn't matter; we are just so grateful to be alive." (She had, however, managed to take her personal jewel box worth half a million pounds and a box containing a Fabergé egg; making her the only rightful owner to leave Russia with such a treasure in her possession.)"
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  #29  
Old 05-16-2008, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
From Royalty Digest Quarterly, #1 2007, by Princess Olga Romanoff:

The escape from Russia

"All of the family silver had been packed into chests for loading and as the ship [HMS Marlborough] sailed away, the captain handed his binoculars to the Dowager Empress for a final glimpse of the Crimea. The Dowager Empress is believed to have said "What are all those little black things along the shore?" "Madam", he replied, "That is your silver!". The servants had been so afraid of being left behind that they had forgotten to load the chests, and she retorted "It doesn't matter; we are just so grateful to be alive." (She had, however, managed to take her personal jewel box worth half a million pounds and a box containing a Fabergé egg; making her the only rightful owner to leave Russia with such a treasure in her possession.)"
mmm .... that's weird, from what I remember out of the memories of Prince Roman Romanov the Dowager Empress insisted on leaving last the Crimea in order to make sure all other refugees could escape, too. Therefor Captain Johnson had to spend another two days in Jalta ... should have been sufficient time to return to Djulber and get the rest of the silver on board. Also the prince remembers that it was already getting dark when the ship left Djulber ... he could not make Djulber out when the Marlborough left.

But at least the Dowager Empress had not left her dog behind there were obviously four quadruped on board! The dachshound of Prince Roman, the ones of the Dowager Empress and his aunt Xenia and the one of Nikita.
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  #30  
Old 05-16-2008, 07:47 AM
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mmm .... that's weird...
We could also wonder why the crew of the warship didn't lend a hand in getting the chests on board. It's hard to believe they just stood around watching. More likely, a romantic version was told to the family and the Marlborough's captain had a different story. Note that Princess Olga chooses her words carefully: "the Dowager Empress is believed to have said..."
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  #31  
Old 05-16-2008, 02:30 PM
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Does anyone know how many traveling trunks (taken aboard and left) there were?

I am sure there were a lot, so, I think it's quite possible that the servents had a good reason to be afraid because if all the trunks had been loaded I bet there wouldn't have been any room for anyone, including the Captain.

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  #32  
Old 05-16-2008, 03:37 PM
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The HMS Marlborough was a 25,000 ton battleship. Plenty of room for the Dowager Empress's trunks, and plenty of crew (over 900) to help get them aboard.
See here.

ETA.. added image of HMS Marlborough. Photograph courtesy of Wikipedia, free use provision.
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  #33  
Old 05-16-2008, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
We could also wonder why the crew of the warship didn't lend a hand in getting the chests on board. It's hard to believe they just stood around watching. More likely, a romantic version was told to the family and the Marlborough's captain had a different story. Note that Princess Olga chooses her words carefully: "the Dowager Empress is believed to have said..."
Thanks, Warren. I appreciate your remark. It's definitely necessary to be aware of the precise expression. Danke.
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  #34  
Old 05-16-2008, 04:20 PM
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The HMS Marlborough was a 25,000 ton battleship. Plenty of room for the Dowager Empress's trunks, and plenty of crew (over 900) to help get them aboard.
See here.

ETA.. added image of HMS Marlborough. Photograph courtesy of Wikipedia, free use provision.
As the Dowager Empress insisted that everybody (family/friends/servants) should get the possibility to leave the Crimea, there were numerous guests on board: among others Roman with his parents (Pjotr Romanov and Militza von Montenegro, his aunt Xenia, his uncle Nikolascha (Nikolai the Younger) and his aunt Stana (Anastasia of Montenegro), two elderly ladies the Princess Dolorukaja and the Princess Jusupowa, etc. Not to mention the servants.

Captain Johnson had to get additional supplies from Sewastopol as well as another dozen seamen. The number of passengers was by far higher than forseen by the Admirality. Therefor it might have been a bit cramped.
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2008, 11:30 AM
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The Marlborough was not the only ship carrying people away that day. When word spread that they were leaving on the British ship, people in the town, even very poor people, wanted to go too because they were afraid of the Bolsheviks. It is said that the Dowager Empress would not leave until the British Navy brought in other ships to carry away all those who wanted to refugee out of the Crimea. Many came along, though due to the needs of the warships which had to move onto other duties, the majority of them were put out at the first stop in Constantinople, and to this day there is a poor community of Russian refugees who had to settle there.
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  #36  
Old 05-17-2008, 06:36 PM
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THE FLIGHT OF THE ROMANOVSby Perry and Pleshakov p. 217:

>>The [Dowager] Empress had agreed to leave but only on the condition that the British take aboard their ships all the sick and wounded and all other people in Yalta wanting to get out of Russia. Minnie said that a Russian empress could not flee if so many Russians were abandoned.<<

>><<Bending their instructions in order to meet the demands of the dowager, the British managed to gather the requiste number of ships to take aboard all in Yalta wanting to leave, and those who were to go gathered on the mole.>>"It was a sad sight: all those refugees, most of whom were old and sick, and all of whom were crushed by grief at leaving their homeland, sitting on bundles and rugs (trucks were fobidden) as they waited to be taken aboard the steamers." Instead of the Marlbourgh sailing first as had been the plan, the ship lifted anchor only after the last steamer had embarked its crowd of refugees. And so the dowager,"like a mother, covered the retreat of her children."<<

Date of embarkation was 8 April 1919.

I am sure that the people, who were given the area where the dowager trunks with her silver, were extremely grateful.

Has there ever been published the number of people, who weren't connected with the Romanovs, were on all of these ships and steamers?

In another book I've read about this was in Hall's LITTLE MOTHER OF RUSSIA. On page 319, he write:

>>After dark they sailed for Yalta, where the ships guns covered the port as the evacuation continued for another three days. When the rumors spread tht the Dowager Empress was leaving panic set in. People abandoned all their possessions and hurried to the waterfront to try and get on the Allied ships. Dagmar insisted that the Marlborugh must be last to leave and said she would personally explain to Admiral Calthorpe why they were late arriving in Constantinople.<<

>>As the Bolsheviks closed in, Dagmar was besieged by people begging to be taken on board which, to her distress, she found was impossible. People streamed onto Yalta pier in ever-increaing numbers. In the chaos and panic families became separated and many of the refugees had only the clothes they stood up in.<<

>>There were nineteen members of the Imperial family with their maids, manservants, governesses and officials of their households; in addition to 1,170 crew, 200 tons of luggage and a fortune in jewels. <<

Date of embarkation from Yalta was 11 April 1919

How many lives weren't saved because the Romanovs couldn't part with 200 tones of luggage or their dogs or their cats..?

Yes, perhaps my tone is a bit curt but then I feel I have a good reason because my relatives, who were left on the docks, were never heard from again, because the Bolsheviks starved them [mostly the very young, women, old men) to death (they didn't allow anyone to feed "kulacks") and executed the husbands and son. These people had remained loyal to the Romanovs, despite their flaws and their inability to understand the needs of their faithful.

One particular relative, who refused to allow the Bolsheviks to take his beautiful horses, drove them to the beach and then into the sea. The last anyone saw him or his horses was as they vanished on the horizon....

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  #37  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:13 PM
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How many lives weren't saved because the Romanovs couldn't part with 200 tones of luggage or their dogs or their cats..?
None, because the poor people would not have been on the same ship with the Romanovs anyway, but their luggage would.
Quote:
One particular relative, who refused to allow the Bolsheviks to take his beautiful horses, drove them to the beach and then into the sea. The last anyone saw him or his horses was as they vanished on the horizon.... AGRBear
I would have done the same! What a moving story. How did you find out, did someone eventually escape? Tell us what happened please.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2008, 02:12 PM
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My grandmother saved all of the letters from the family and placed them in a trunk. From time to time she would pull them out and read to the family these letters. Tears always rolled down her cheeks as she voiced the words from her family and freinds who had lived in Russia.

One of my good friends known as Curious One over on AP and known as Remmick on my forum has a story on her web site about one of her great uncles and his family. The last letter their family recieved was that the great uncle had been sent off to the salt mines in Siberia and his family (wife and a number of children) were left to fend for themselves. The Bolsheviks gave the villagers orders that NO ONE was to give her great uncle's family any food because they were they were "kulacks". The last letter from the great uncles's wife told how the children were eating the ends of their fingers off and that all of them would probably be dead by the time the letter reached Remmick's grandparents living in the USA.

Our family stories are not unusual. More information can be found at the North Dakota State University where a Michael Miller is the head of the preservation of the history of the German-Russian who migrated to the mid-west. They have huge collections of letters written as the Bolsheviks moved into the German-Russian colonies which existed all across Russia. Here are three excellent web sites to visit.

GRHC (North Dakota State University's Heritage Collection)
Germans from Russia Heritage Collection

GRHS (German-Russian History Society at Bismarck, ND)
Germans from Russia Heritage Society
and
AHSGR (American Historical Society of Germans From Russia at Lincoln, Nebraska)
AHSGR



For any farther information, since this thread is about the Romanovs, please visit my forum and Remmick's threads about the German-Russians.
RomanovsRussia :: Login

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  #39  
Old 05-19-2008, 07:25 PM
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Here are two excellent web sites which carry a great deal of informtion about the rescues of the Romanovs.

THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS: SURVIVORS:
Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

And under the Alexander Palace's section on History: The Resue of the Romanovs from Yalta - 1919

Rescue of the Imperial family from Yalta 1919 - Alexander Palace Time Machine

Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

>>GROUP IX

.... In February 1918, this group was split and the major members, including the Dowager Empress, were placed under detention at the Villa Dulber near Yalta. The following month they were freed by the Germans who had occupied the area after signing the Treaty of Brest Litovsk. In the summer of 1918 they were moved to the Villa Harax near Sevastopol and joined the Ai Todor group in March 1919.<<

Royal Russia - The Fate of the Romanovs: The Survivors

Although the Romanovs were saved by the Germans, they were not pleased, in fact, they were embarrassed having been saved by their enemy, the Germans.

Anyone know who the German officer was in charge of this rescue?

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  #40  
Old 05-29-2008, 08:27 PM
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Thank you for the information, that is very interesting. How exciting it must be to have such stories in your own family and to be a part of history.
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