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  #41  
Old 07-14-2015, 05:03 PM
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You forget that the Romanovs were not enlightened monarchs by and large. They were illustrious, in the terms that they were know. They were autocrats. Even Nicholas II, could not adjust to that role after the 1905 revolution of sorts. They never recognized the "will of the people". It is only that the people are not necessarily crazy about the Putin Regime, that you could entertain this. And it will cost money. That being said, I heard her speak and she sounds very nice and intelligent. There, are, also, others who can argue that she is not the successor.
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2015, 05:20 PM
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You forget that the Romanovs were not enlightened monarchs by and large. They were illustrious, in the terms that they were know. They were autocrats. Even Nicholas II, could not adjust to that role after the 1905 revolution of sorts. They never recognized the "will of the people". It is only that the people are not necessarily crazy about the Putin Regime, that you could entertain this. And it will cost money. That being said, I heard her speak and she sounds very nice and intelligent. There, are, also, others who can argue that she is not the successor.
I have finished the three thick biographies of Willem I, Willem II and Willem III, Kings of the Netherlands and Grand-Dukes of Luxembourg. Even Willem III and his daughter Queen Wilhelmina (1880-1963) were not at all democrats by heart. With other words you can not compare Prince Georg of Prussia (also known as Grand Duke Georgy) with his ancestor Nicholas II, like you can not compare Willem-Alexander with his ancestor Willem III...

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  #43  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:50 PM
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Of course not, times have changed people change, too. But the Romanovs were not loved nor did they stay and evolve. And their still is the issue of who, actually, is the rightful heir.
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  #44  
Old 07-15-2015, 03:13 AM
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Well, Maria does not want a return of the monarchy but seem to envisage a role la Romania, Serbia or Portugal where the former royal family still seems to have a prominent role in society.
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  #45  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:49 AM
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Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: June 2008-

The grand duchess does not wish for a monarchy to be imposed on the Russian people against their will.

That is not quite the same thing as saying that the grand duchess is against a return to monarchy.

The grand duchess may indeed be open to any sort of involvement in Russian cultural life.
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  #46  
Old 07-15-2015, 05:31 AM
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She may be more than happy when the Russian Republic would offer a similar settlement as in Romania: the same treatment as an ex-President which means a house, an office, staff, transportation and security. They could designate one of the former imperial residences as house annex office, for an example (part) of the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoye Selo, which already serves as a museum for the imperial dynasty. For the rest a a nice social and cultural role, as Princess Margarita of Romania has these days.
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  #47  
Old 07-15-2015, 05:32 AM
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Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna says all the right things when asked about a possible restoration, and is sensible enough to know that it is more realistic to focus on an arrangement like other non-reigning dynasties. But if a restoration were to happen, I wouldn't want to be standing between Maria Vladimirovna and the first flight from Madrid to Moscow. I doubt that she has a bag packed just in case, but I reckon she'd pack one pretty quickly if she had to.
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  #48  
Old 07-24-2015, 01:58 PM
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Russian aristocrats reminded about Kirill Vladimirovich Romanov's support of Nazis. Lenta.ru

As stated in the article, Russian aristocracy represented by Nikita Lobanov-Rostovskiy, Alexander Trubetzkoy, Petr Sheremetev, and Sergey Kapnist sent a letter to President Putin and requested him not to grant any official status to Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her heir. A copy of the letter was sent to Mr Sergey Naryshkin, Chairman of the Gosudarstvennaya Duma.

Neither President Putin's spokesperson nor Mr Naryshkin's office confirmed the letter.
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  #49  
Old 07-24-2015, 02:28 PM
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1938
Royal Musings: Wladimir has left Paris
1939
Royal Musings: Wladimir proclaimed as Czar
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  #50  
Old 07-24-2015, 05:33 PM
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As shown above in #49, 5000 Russian aristocrats, officers, and soldiers showed up when Vladimir was proclaimed heir in Paris in 1938. The recent letter is just from 4 aristocratic supporters of Dimitri Romanov and not even backed by the Romanov Family Association either.

While Nicholas II was against Vladimir's parents marriage he had changed his mind and that marriage had royal support long before Vladimir was born. Even Vladimir's marriage to Leonida did not cause a revolt in support from Nicholas, his brother and others.

It was on his death that Dimitri and his brother Nicholas came forth as claimants. They felt the rules about morgantic marriage didn't applied to them as Princes just to Grand Dukes and it was then they questioned Maria's parents legitimacy. This is something the Russians are also fully aware off as Vladimir had visit Russia as the unquestioned pretender before his death.

Also Dimitri does not have the support of all descendants outside of the Kirill branch with Maria having the support of the Kirill branch. Karl Emerich Leiningen from the Kirill branch is also a claimant as is Rostislav a descendant of Michael/Xenia (although he is somewhat in union with Dimitri). There are even some outside the family suggesting Prince Michael of Kent or even Prince Harry as an alternative. However, many descendants seem to be not backing anyone. Even the Romanov Family Association, while it rejects Maria, officially don't back Dimitri but leave it up to the will of the Russian people.

As for the Nazi accusations: First off even if relatives had supported the Nazis that is not a reason to deny Maria's claim as it has never been a reason to deny any other royals' claims. Also they are misstating the facts he was not a supporter of the Nazis but a prisoner as were his sisters.

As shown above in #49, he rebuffed the Russians and being made Regent of Ukraine. In 1942, while living in France he was captured and put in a concentration camp at Compigne after he refused to issue a manifesto calling on Russian emigres to support Nazi Germany's war against the Soviet Union. In 1944 the German army moved the family inland and eventually to his sister Maria's in Germany. They were not free, they were not supporters of the Nazis. Maria's husband was forced to join the army, captured, and died in a Russian concentration camp.

His sister Kira and her husband Louis Ferdinand of Prussia worked with the underground and were captured and thrown in Dachau Concentration Camp. They were rescued by American soldiers at the end of the war. His future wife Leonida's first husband Sumner Kirby died in hospital near the concentration camp he was put in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_...vich_of_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_...ovna_of_Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince...on_of_Mukhrani

The Romanoff Family Association
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  #51  
Old 07-24-2015, 06:38 PM
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What is the suitor with more support?
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  #52  
Old 07-24-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
What is the suitor with more support?
I would say Maria Vladimirovna Romanova, from the undisputed most senior Romanov agnatic branch nd her branch has the best track record when it comes to "proper marriages" compared with all other existing Romanov branches.


Maria Vladimirovna x Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia

Grandparents
Vladimir Kyrillovich x Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhranskaya

Great-grandparents
Kyrill Vladimirovich x Princess Victoria Melita von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

Great- great-grandparents
Vladimir Alexandrovich x Marie, Duchess von Mecklenburg-Schwerin

Great- great- great-grandparents
Tsar Alexander II x Princess Marie von Hessen und bei Rhein
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  #53  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:21 PM
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You may view Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna as the most qualified claimant. However, Russians often remind that Nicholas II threw Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich out of the succession line, and Grand Duchess Maria's son is actually Hohenzollern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
She may be more than happy when the Russian Republic would offer a similar settlement as in Romania: the same treatment as an ex-President which means a house, an office, staff, transportation and security. They could designate one of the former imperial residences as house annex office, for an example (part) of the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoye Selo, which already serves as a museum for the imperial dynasty. For the rest a a nice social and cultural role, as Princess Margarita of Romania has these days.
Russia is not Romania. A large number of Russians see no reason for Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna or any other Romanov to live off the taxpayers' funds.
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  #54  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:31 PM
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Seeing the billions of rubles thrown out of the window with the military campaigns in Ukraine and Crimea, with the Olympics in Sotchi and the World Cup Football, with the losses as a result of the plummeting oil and gaz prices and the boycott of Russian and Western goods vice-versa, allowing Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna Romanova to have an office in a wing of the Alexander Palace, with a small staff and some support from the State, comparable with what Gorbachev or Yeltsing got, is nothing. Don't forget the Russians murdered almost the whole imperial family and seized all their properties without any compensation. Such an arrangement is really nothing and just a minimal token of some goodwill for such an immense country.
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  #55  
Old 07-24-2015, 08:48 PM
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You have lovely emotional ideas, but Russians do not see it that way. There is no need to guilt-trip Russians about the murder of their Imperial family. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna already did it some time ago.

France has its own claimants, who can be given a wing in the Palace of Versailles or any other palace, security, and etc.
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  #56  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
However, Russians often remind that Nicholas II threw Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich out of the succession line, and Grand Duchess Maria's son is actually Hohenzollern.
NOT TRUE.

Kyrill was out of favour after his scandalous (yet still dynastic) marriage to his first cousin and Nicholas's brother-in-law's ex-wife (had also been a first cousin) but it was a temporary thing (1905-08). Kyrill was in succession right after Michael at the time of Nicholas II's abdication and death. Once Michael was pronounced deceased, Kyrill was recognized in writing by the male dynasts. Three dynasts objected and did not sign: Grand Duke Nicholas, his brother Grand Duke Peter, and the latter's son, Prince Roman Petrovich (Nicholas and Dimitri's dad).

Since the other dynasts were elderly without dynastic heirs, in 1969 Vladimir proclaimed his daughter curatrix (future heir) and Roman continued his objection along with two previous supporters; who objected to it since they themselves weren't dead: Andrei Alexandrovich (nephew of Nicholas II) and Vsevold. In 1979 after their father's death Nicholas and Dimitri along with Andrei and his brothers formed the Romanov Family Association. In 1989, after the last other male dynast had died, Vladimir proclaimed Maria as heir because she was the closest female dynast.

Like I said before, it was only after Vladimir's death that others came out of the woodwork as actual claimants. Only Dimitri and Nicholas's family questioned Kyrill's marriage or Vladimir's marriage in real time back before Maria was born. It all only became an issue to the others when Vladimir did not produce a son. But most against Maria are not actually proposing a candidate. They want the Russian people to decide if the monarchy is ever returned and the Romanov Family Association states that too in it's manifesto. So if that happened and they did pick Maria would they all stand by their manifesto and support Maria?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_o...Russian_throne
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  #57  
Old 07-25-2015, 04:14 AM
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And the painpoint is that Grand-Duke Vladimir married Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhranskaya, which was seen as "not equal enough" by them.

Those who claim this have no any stance by themselves. Andrei Alexandrovich Romanov, the eldest nephew of Tsar Nicholas II, married a divorce with a daughter from an earlier marriage. This lady, Donna Elisabetta di Ruffo-Sasso, did belong to Italian nobility but when a Princess Bagration-Moukhranskaya is seen as "not befitting" what about this union then?

The children of Andrei Alexandrovich and Elisabetta all married commoners on their turn:
- Xenia, married with Calhoun Ancrum and Geoffrey Tooth
- Michael, married with Jill Murphy, Shirley Crammond and Giulia Crespi
- Andrew, married with Elena Dourneva, Kathleen Norris and Inez Bachelin

From this line three grandchildren are alive, all married commoners on their turn:
- Alexis, married with Zoetta Leisy
- Peter (unmarried)
- Andre, married with Liz Flores

Blaming the union of Grand-Duke Vladimir with Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhranskaya as "not befitting" while seeing this list with all these alliances, come on... how serious can one be to use that argument?
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  #58  
Old 07-27-2015, 12:58 PM
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Maria doesn't stand a chance!More precise,she's under heavy flack.
Was about time this woman from Madrid was tought a lesson.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I would say Maria Vladimirovna Romanova, from the undisputed most senior Romanov agnatic branch nd her branch has the best track record when it comes to "proper marriages" compared with all other existing Romanov branches.


Maria Vladimirovna x Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia

Grandparents
Vladimir Kyrillovich x Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhranskaya

Great-grandparents
Kyrill Vladimirovich x Princess Victoria Melita von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

Great- great-grandparents
Vladimir Alexandrovich x Marie, Duchess von Mecklenburg-Schwerin

Great- great- great-grandparents
Tsar Alexander II x Princess Marie von Hessen und bei Rhein
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  #59  
Old 07-27-2015, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by lucien View Post
Maria doesn't stand a chance!More precise,she's under heavy flack.
Was about time this woman from Madrid was tought a lesson.
Maybe you can be a little bit more elaborate than just pout a sentence and walk away? Thank you, in advance. For so far Grand Duchess Maria Vladmirovna seems not very much in need for "a lesson" and she is not a nobody from Madrid or something as you seem to intend, seeing this picture.
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  #60  
Old 07-28-2015, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Maybe you can be a little bit more elaborate than just pout a sentence and walk away? Thank you, in advance. For so far Grand Duchess Maria Vladmirovna seems not very much in need for "a lesson" and she is not a nobody from Madrid or something as you seem to intend, seeing this picture.
Old pics.

But with the rumour of a `return` of some Romanovs to the Crimea,it did emerge there are more opponents then she could have ever imagined.

Вести.Ru: Игры с престолом: русские дворяне ополчились на "*омановых-самозванцев"
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