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  #121  
Old 02-01-2010, 03:06 PM
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Greek cousins Vs Russian cousins

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Originally Posted by EmpressRouge View Post
The execution of the Russian Imperial family prompted a quick response from George to V to rescue his Greek cousins, Prince and Princess Andrew of Greece and their family in 1922.
Since I am studying Greek modern History as a hobby I must point out a few things here. First of all, Alexandra , the Grand Duchesses and the Tsarevitch were held along with the Tsar, while Princess Andrew and her children were safe, it was only Prince Andrew who was facing charges . They were not arested, they were not charged of anything, they were not under house arrest they were not even forbidden to leave the country ,they were not moved, they stayed in their palace in Corfu . So I could say that it was pretty easy for Alice to leave Greece along with her children if she felt she was threatened . I don't see them need any kind of "rescue" not at least in the sense Empress Alexandra and her children needed.

Secondly king George V was able to help Andrew because it was a different situation than that of the Tsar. the Tsar was considered de facto guilty for every act he commited on his whole reign, a potential threat ot the new regime and was relocated so he could not escape . Prince Andrew on the other hand was put under house arrest in Athens ,the country's capital and was facing specific charges. He was charged of high treason on the grounds that when he was a major general of the Greek Army in Asia Minor, he purposely disobeyed his commander in chief and his disodedience contributed in the greek Army's defeat so he was to bet put in trial. Nicholas was said something like " you are responsible for numberless crimes against the soviet people and we are executing you and your family without a trial because we want no one to survive" ,Andrew was said something like " you are charged with high treason and you will face a court".

It is important to know that Andrew was OFFICIALLY charged while Nicholas wasn't, because we can see that in Andrew 's case George V knew that his cousin was facing the highest possible penalty (execution) while he had at least the alibi of uncertainty in Nicholas case. And Andrew wasn't the only one charged with high treason , other six ex - commanders and politicians also faced the same charges in a higly published trial . (in Greece this trial is Known as the Trial of the Six and it is an important historical event) This means that Ceorge V had a lot of time to act until the trial was finished. Moreover, the British diplomacy was able to greatly pressure the greek government to spare Andrew 's life while they didn't have that ability in Nicholas' case. I mean, Greece was crying at the time for foreign financial support , over 1,5 million of refugees had just arrived from Asia they couldn't turn UK against them. Lenin on the other hand didn't need this knd of immediate support from UK.if the Bolsheviks wanted to kill the Imperial Family they could probably get away with it. If Greeks executed P Andrew they couldn't.

In the end it was decided that P ANdrew was to be put to trial alone and the other six together. The other six were all found guilty and were sentenced to death. Prince Andrew was found umanismously innocent due inexperiency in military matters and was banned for life from Greece. He then left he country with his family.

to conclude , George V was able to help his Greek cousins because he could intervene without risking ANYTHING.Unfortunately fo his Russian cousins , he didn't have the same luxury.
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  #122  
Old 02-01-2010, 03:15 PM
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sorry for this enormous message of mine I didn't realise it got so big I have posted very few times
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  #123  
Old 02-01-2010, 11:27 PM
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In both, am I correct in my thinking, it was actually King George V's prime minister and government that decided not to attempt to rescue the Czar and his immediate family AND they are the same that chose to aid Prince Andrew.
King George managed to get diplomatic channels in White Russia to get the Dowager Empress and Xenia and Olga & families out... b/c they were not associated directly with the autocracy. Correct?
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  #124  
Old 02-02-2010, 08:36 AM
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nope it was king geroge himself fearing a revoltion in his own country that decided
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  #125  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:02 AM
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I had always read that it was due to his government's not wanting to seem sympathetic to the autocracy.... as it would then look unfavorable on King George V. Either case being.... it plagued King George the rest of his life knowing that he didn't save his kin, especially Alexandra and the children. (Not that Alexandra wasn't to blame, in my opinion, for a great deal of the mess, but she was a woman).
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  #126  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:03 AM
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I don't thik king George was the only one who decided not to let them in the country, the politicians were afraid as well. Do you think the politicians would like to let the political system be endagrered since it was thanks to this particural political systen that they gained power? George V might have beeen afraid for his position but certainly he was not the only one afraid to lose something.
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  #127  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:11 AM
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Taking the personal out of it... and looking at it from a politicians vantage point and not a monarchs (though, in this case, the monarch had encountered the same issues - there were many who though King George and Queen Mary and many members of the Royal Family may harbor German sympathies)..... Since so many rumors (and they were rumors, from all I have read) where whirling about Russia concerning Empress Alexandra being a German spy..... do you think that may have also impacted the decision not to grant the Imperial Family asylum?
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  #128  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:33 AM
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if i remember theres a dramatzion of it in lostprince about the decsion but your are correct carolinalandgrave
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  #129  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:31 AM
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In my heart of hearts.... I believe King George woulda rescued the Imperial Family if his government woulda let him & the anti-German hysteria hadn't gripped Britain.... King George, I think, was in his heart a good man.

but all those are "IFs".... and as my grandmama used to say "IF a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump his butt when he hopped"
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  #130  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:05 PM
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ROYAL BLOG: PRINCE MICHAEL BIDS TO CLEAR GEORGE V'S NAME OVER TSAR'S DEATH

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He does a fair amount of business in Russia and trades on the family connection, even though it has always been a matter of regret inside the British Royal Family that the Queen - and Prince Michael's - grandfather George V failed to help rescue Nicholas and his family when they were toppled by the Russian revolution.

But now the Queen's cousin, who was named after Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich, the last Tsar's younger brother, has gone public on what he says were plans drawn up by the then King to rescue his Russian cousin and other members of the family.
http://www.express.co.uk/blogs/post/...r-Tsar-s-death
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  #131  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:35 PM
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Did anyone see this programme? I think King George V was in a tight position and I always thought it was his government, not the King, who revoked the offer of asylum. Indeed, I imagine his mother, Queen Alexandra, would be none too pleased that her son changed his mind about her sister's family and then they were later massacred.

Hey, my 200th post!
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  #132  
Old 02-22-2010, 10:17 PM
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Congrats on 200!
Yes, I also think it was more the government of Britain who didn't want to be associated with the autocracy rather than any personal feelings of King George and Queen Mary.
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  #133  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:17 PM
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There were a lot of political machinations going on with this. Bruce Lockheart (From the book: Moura: The Dangerous life of Baroness Budberg) was rather hoping the Bolshies could be supported by the Allies to defeat the Germans. The Germans didn't want to recognize the Bolshie government because they deposed their Tsar and the others, France and Great Britian were loathe to do so as well. (It was one thing for them to ship Lenin in to blow the whole thing up, it was quite another when royal heads started rolling. . .)
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  #134  
Old 03-01-2010, 01:11 PM
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I just now finished reading all of the posts on this thread -- whew! Fascinating stuff, eh? I believe that the Royal Family's only hope of salvation was in the Kerensky government--if the allied powers had acted quickly, the family might have been rescued. But once Lenin seized power, their unfortunate fate was sealed.

And therein lies the rub--up to that point, no one really had any idea what the Russian government was capable of doing. There was much dilly-dallying by all involved but I think that most politicians could not even conceive that the entire family would be slaughtered. I mean, come on, the children were innocent no matter what Nicholas and Alexandra may have done while on the throne. This unexpected action, more than anything else, may have been the cause of the Romanovs' deaths because there might not have been the sense of urgency to rescue them.
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  #135  
Old 03-01-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
There was much dilly-dallying by all involved but I think that most politicians could not even conceive that the entire family would be slaughtered. I mean, come on, the children were innocent no matter what Nicholas and Alexandra may have done while on the throne. This unexpected action, more than anything else, may have been the cause of the Romanovs' deaths because there might not have been the sense of urgency to rescue them.
I believe that really no one expected the whole family to be secretely executed. But I do think that every politician who wans't stupid could see that the Tsar had little or no chances to leave this country alive and that his wife would follow him to his death. But no one really expected their children to be executed. Even during the Russian Revolution, Louis and Marie Antoinette were sent to the guilottine, but Marie Louise and the Dauphin were spared. Sure the Dauphin died of deliberate negligence but no one ever led him of his sister to the firing squad. I believe that the worst scenarion that ever passed the British politicians' mind was a public show trial and an execution of the Tsar and his wife, Alexei being locked up somewhere perhaps and OTMA exiled for life from Russia. After all , why kill them, they were girls and a whole bunch of male relatives would have to die before they could even begin to claim the throne . ( not to mention that withe the Vladimirovitchi cousins alive, there was no chance of changing the Pauline laws if the girls survived). And I believe that this is also the worst scenario that ever crossed Alexandra and Nichola's mind. They were worried about their fate, they were certainly worried about Alexei's fate but I think that somewhere deep inside them they weren't worried for a long time about their daughter being killed. And maybe that's why Alexandra made sure that each girl would have sewn all these precious jewels in their clothes before leaving for exile, because she wanted to secure financially the girls for a future away from Russia even if she and her husband didn't survive.
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  #136  
Old 03-01-2010, 07:35 PM
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I found it highly selfish of Alix and Nicky to drag their children with them to their deaths. They should have at least made safe passage for them through Finland to get them out of the country. Minnie had an excellent relationship with Finland, they would have done anything for her. Or they should have sent them to the Crimea with Minnie and co. As a parent, I would have moved heaven and earth to send my children to safety, it's not like they didnt have the resources or the chance to do it. Yet there they were, just sitting ducks. It really makes me angry that they thought nothing of their children or their safety, just the need to be together as a family.
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  #137  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:16 PM
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If I were a betting man, I'd say that was Alexandra Feodorovna to a tee!
Like you, Russo, I would move heaven and earth to make sure those I loved most were out of harms way - if that meant separation, so be it!
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  #138  
Old 07-31-2010, 05:12 PM
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Denial of Asylum in Great Britain

Does anyone care to comment on the British Government and/or George V's refusal of asylum to the Imperial Family after Nicholas' abdication? Initial reports were that George would offer the family asylum, which was later completely refuted.

George V's cowardice?
Lloyd George's influence?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts!
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  #139  
Old 07-31-2010, 06:52 PM
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I believe it was the more the influence of the British government which would not agree to allow the Tsar and his family into Great Britain
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  #140  
Old 07-31-2010, 11:04 PM
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I think the government felt it was ill advised and George V was worried enough not to overstep his bounds. I am sure it haunted him in the aftermath. But hindsight is always 20/20.
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