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  #41  
Old 03-14-2008, 09:01 PM
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Once they left Tobolosk, I think most knew there would be no return.
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  #42  
Old 03-16-2008, 08:14 PM
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Once they left Tobolosk, I think most knew there would be no return.
I agree. So, in my opinion, they just their heads in the sand.
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  #43  
Old 03-17-2008, 12:59 AM
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Doea anyone know the reations of the rulers when they where killed? I thought that I read that they kinda expected it of Nicky but not of the children and the Empress.
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  #44  
Old 03-17-2008, 04:46 AM
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Doea anyone know the reations of the rulers when they where killed? I thought that I read that they kinda expected it of Nicky but not of the children and the Empress.
Sometime last year the leading German political magazine DER SPIEGEL published an article about the latest historical research of the involvement of emperor Wilhelm II: in the taking over of the Bolsheviks in Russia and it said that the emperor had financed Lenin and his people to get rid of the Tsar. He okayed the killing of his cousin, but agreed to take the empress and the children. They found no document claiming that the emperor felt guilty or was sad that his cousin had been killed.
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  #45  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:38 PM
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Jo, if you can find that article, I'd love to take a gander at it!
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  #46  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:13 PM
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Kaiser Wilhlem II was greatly interested in saving the royal family members. It had been the Germans who had prevented the Bolsheviks from capturing the Romanovs in the Crimea and there was a plot to save Nicholas II and his family around the 16th of July 1918 from the Ipatiev House.

Yes, I did write the 16th of July 1918.

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  #47  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Sometime last year the leading German political magazine DER SPIEGEL published an article about the latest historical research of the involvement of emperor Wilhelm II: in the taking over of the Bolsheviks in Russia and it said that the emperor had financed Lenin and his people to get rid of the Tsar. He okayed the killing of his cousin, but agreed to take the empress and the children. They found no document claiming that the emperor felt guilty or was sad that his cousin had been killed.
Does your article mention the rescue plot to save Nicholas II around the date of 16th of July 1918?

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  #48  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:02 PM
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The bolsheviks were making a plot with the American hotel to rescue the imperial family. But, it was a trap. It's just like on July 16th when Yurosky woke up the imperial family he told them they were under an attack and needed to go in a lower part of the house. It was actually a lie they made so they could kill them in the cellar room.
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:46 PM
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The fake letter the Bolsheviks sent to Nicholas II and his family is a different event than that of the plots being set up by the Germans, Whites, loyalists and others. So, I'm not sure how to respond to your post AnatasiaEvidence. Did you want turn this discussion towards the fake letter?

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  #50  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:36 PM
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I think the topic here is plots. Bear, wasn't there something about a house built in Murmansk for the Imperial family? It's been so long since I read about this. I think the Americans helped fund it, am I remembering this correctly?
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  #51  
Old 03-22-2008, 05:48 PM
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Yes, please focus on the fake letter that the American hotel sent to the imperial family. It's been so long after I read about this it's a pity that the exact letter written couldn't be found. I hope you have some more information about the letter. I did see a letter in French that a officer written to Nicholas asking to rescue him and his family. If I find that letter I can translate it myself. If any of you find the letter and it's in French I could translate it for you.
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  #52  
Old 03-23-2008, 07:18 PM
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Anna Virubova, a friend of Empress Alexandrovna's, supposedly wrote secret notes in French that were smuggled in (by nuns?). The notes asked for the Tsar to draw a map of the Ipatiev House and asked his advice for a secret escape in the middle of the night. Nicholas responded saying that he could only be rescued by force. The imperial family and their attendants (Dr. Botkin, Demidova, Trupp, Kharitonov) anxiously waited every night, fully clothed and ready to move quickly. Whether these notes were legitimate or orchestrated by the Bolsheviks is debatable. I reccomend The Kitchen Boy by Robert Alexander.
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  #53  
Old 03-23-2008, 08:58 PM
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The Kitchen Boy is a good fictional book.
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  #54  
Old 03-24-2008, 10:51 AM
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Yeah, it uses a lot of facts that help you to understand what was happening.
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  #55  
Old 03-25-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsarina Anastasia View Post
Anna Virubova, a friend of Empress Alexandrovna's, supposedly wrote secret notes in French that were smuggled in (by nuns?). The notes asked for the Tsar to draw a map of the Ipatiev House and asked his advice for a secret escape in the middle of the night. Nicholas responded saying that he could only be rescued by force. The imperial family and their attendants (Dr. Botkin, Demidova, Trupp, Kharitonov) anxiously waited every night, fully clothed and ready to move quickly. Whether these notes were legitimate or orchestrated by the Bolsheviks is debatable. I reccomend The Kitchen Boy by Robert Alexander.
What I'll do is quote various books where the "The Mysterious Letters" are mentioned.

p. 512 Robert Massie's NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA:

>>Preston new nothing of attempts to resuce the Tsar, and Bykov found plots sesething on every corner.<<

Thomas H Preston was the British Consul in Ekaterinburg.
P. M. Bykov was the Chairman of theEkaterinburg Soviets.

The report of the letters are found in General M. K. Dieterichs [Diterikhs], Chief-of-Staff of Admiral Kolchak's White Army, who was very much a part of the investigation into the disapearance of Nicholas II and the others.

>>..The first letter was a message from an anonymous White offier to the Tsar:

"With God's help and your prudence we hope to achieve our object without running any risk. It is necessary to unfasten one of your widnows, so that you cn open it; please let me know exactly which. If the little Tsarevich cannot walk, matters will be very compliced, but we have weighed this up too, and I do not consider it an insurmountable obstacle. Let us know definitely wheter you need two men to carry him and whether any of you could undertake this work. Could not the little one be put to sleep for an hour or two with some drug? Let the doctor decide, only you must know the time exactly, beforehand. We will supply all that is necessary. Be sure that we shall unerstake nothing unless we are absolutely certain of success beforehand. We give you our solemn pledge of this before God, history and our own conscience." The letter was signed; "Officer."<<

p. 513 Massie's book continued:

>>The second letter quoted by Dieterichs is Nicholas's reply:
"The second wndow from the corner, looking out onto the square, has been kept open for two days already, even at night. The seveth and eight windows near the main entrances... are likewise kept open. The room is occupied by commandant and his assistants who constitue the inner guard at the present time. they number thirteen, armed with rifles, revolvers and grenades. No room but our has keys. The commandant and their assistants can enter our quarters whenever they please. The orderly officer makes the round of the house twice an hour at night and we hear his arms clattering under our windows. One machine gun stands on the balcony and one above it, for an emergency. Opposite our windows on the other side of the street is the [outside] guard in a little house. It consists of fity men... In any case, inform us when there is a chance and let us know whether we can take our people [servants]... From every post there is a bell to the commandant and a signal to the guard room and other places. If our people stay behind, can we be certain that nothing will happen to them?"

Nicholas II's diary
June 27

>>We spent an anxious night, and kept up our spirits, fullly dressed. All this was because a few days ago we received two letters, one after the other, in which we were told to get ready to be rescued by some devoted people, but days passed and nothing happened and the waiting and the uncertainty were very painful.<<

Quote p.513 Robert Massie's NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA.

LIFE ONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALXANDRA THEIR OWN STORY collected by Maylunas and Mironenko tell us that on 14/27 June 1918 that Nicholas wrote the following in his diary:

>>Our dear Maria is 19 years old. The weather was still as tropical, 26 degrees in the shade and 24 in the rooms, almost impossible to bear! We spent and anxious night and stayed awake fully dresssed. This was because, a few days ago, we received two letters one after the other, which informed us that we shold prepare to be rescued by some people devoted to us! But the days passed and nothing happened, only the waiting and the uncertainty were torture.<<

LIFE ONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA THEIR OWN STORY collected by Maylunas and Mironenko tell us that on 15/28 June 1918 what Alexandra wrote:

>>..[in part]...we hear the night sentry under our rooms being told quite particularly to watch every movement at our window -- they have become again most suspeicious, since our window is opened & don't all one to sit on the sill even now.<<
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  #56  
Old 03-25-2008, 03:11 PM
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Another thing is that in this people usually focus on George V and not on the other European monarchs. Of course Britain was Russia's main ally and George and Nicky were cousins, but there was an entire network of crowned cousins, I usually wonder what they did? Or what was tried by the Russians themselves?
I think that in most cases the other European monarchs in 1917 had even less power than George V. WWI was still going on, which definitely complicated things in Europe in general.


In the book Kong Olav Ser tilbake (King Olav looks back) by Kjell Arnljot Wig (1977), King Olav mentions (p. 52) something about the worries they had for their Russian relatives: "I also remember that they at home, by the end of the war, talked on how the Russian relatives fared, because we didn't know much. With the family in England there was contact throughout the war, through courier. But regarding the situation in Russia, one didn't know more than what the newspapers could tell on how the revolution went along, and there were many kinds of rumours.

I don't think there had been any warm connection, at all really. Our Russian relatives did live pretty isolated." (By that time the big Fredensborg gatherings, had dwindled to something akin to nothing.)

Given that he was 14 years old in 1917, he was obviously not privy to everything that went on in adult discussion, or in the councils of State, where attempts to negotiate might have been discussed.
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  #57  
Old 03-25-2008, 03:11 PM
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THE FALL OF THE ROMAOVS by Steinberg and Khrustalev have a copy of the "officer of the Russian army" letter following p. 310 where the translation is given at the bottom of the page.

On this same page is this Soviet order copied:
>> "All prisoners' correspondence is to be examined by a person specially aurthorized for this purpose by the Presideum of the [Ural] Regional Soviets.<<

These letters of communication between "officer" and IF continued to p. 320.
---
NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA by Robert Massie tells us p. 512:

>>...Bykov said, notes were intercepted inside loaves of bread and bottles of milk, containing messages such as: "The hour of liberation is aproaching and the days of the usurpers are numbers," "The Slav armies are coming nearer and nearer Ekaberinburg.... The time has come for action," "Your friends sleep no longer."

Here is what we find in THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS starting on p. 228:

>>As the Romanovs waited, the Ekaterinburg Bolsheviks planned their next move. Other, genuine letters apparently followed the disicovery of the first, conclealed, as Ekaterinburg Soviet member Paul Bykov recalled.<< Already noted in my post above.

>>Like the first confiscated latter, none of these survived, and only the forgery composed by the Cheka are known.<<

>>It was in 1964 that Isai Rodzinsky spoke at leanght of "the correspondence I carried on with Nicholas." In his account Rodzinsky clearly recalled the letters he wrote in French, "I remember the red ink with which they were written to the present day," the elderman said. Rodzinsky, according to his fellow Cheka member Kudrin, had been selected to copy the letters because "he had a good handwriting." Rodzinsky also left a telling comment: "We had to be able to show," he said, "evidence that a rescue had been arranged."

Let me repeat this: "We had to b e able to show evidence that a rescue had been arranged."

King and Wilson go on to say:

>>This "evidence," as both Rodzinsky and Kudrin later revealed, was never intended for public consumption, but for the eyes of the Central Executive Committe, to prove the exsistence of a monarchist plot to rescue the Romanovs.<<

So, the question in my mind is, who wanted this done? The Ural Soviets? The Moscow Soviets?

Did the Bolshsviks really intercept notes from the "officer" or was the officer part of the Soviet conpiracy to make it appear a rescue plot was occuring?

If there really was an "officer", who was he and what happened to him? And, why didn't they keep his notes found in milk bottles, bread ...?

AGRBear

HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE, AN INTIMATE PORTRAIT OF THE LAST DAYS OF THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL FAMILY complied from the papers of their Enlgish Tutor Charles Sydney Gibbes by J. C. Trewin p. 110-111:

>>Toward the middle of June, in this hot and dragging summer, there were the usual cloudy hopes of a rescue attempt: They stayed cloudy; the anxious monarchist never found a workable plan. Now the end was coming indeed. Avadeiev and his guards, so it was rumoured, had been growing too lenient; they were replaced by men of the Secret Police...<<

What Gibbes actually wrote is not copied to this book. Does anyone have what he wrote?

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  #58  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:02 PM
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No, actually an officer sent the Tsar and his family a rescue note in French. Alexandra wrote only in English at the time in Yakeringburg. It was her main langauge she knew fluently.
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  #59  
Old 03-27-2008, 06:08 PM
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No, actually an officer sent the Tsar and his family a rescue note in French. Alexandra wrote only in English at the time in Yakeringburg. It was her main langauge she knew fluently.
Source please?
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  #60  
Old 03-27-2008, 08:04 PM
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THE FALL OF THE ROMANOVS p. 310
>>137
Letter from an "officer of the Russian army" to the imperial family, (19 or 20 June 1918.
Original in French.<<

>>Friends are no longer sleeping and hope that the hour so long awaited has come. The revolt of the Czechoslovaks threatens the Bolsheviks every more seriously. << Jumping down a few lines the letter goes on to say:
>>Be ready at every hour, day and night. Make a drawing of your two three bedrooms [showing] the position of the furniture, the beds. Write the hour that you all go to bed [in margin: 11:30]. Answer with a few words... You must give your answer in writing to the same soldier who transmits this note to you, but do not say a single word.

From somone who is ready to die for you,
Officer of the Russian Army<<

The foot note of the authors, Steinberg and Khrustalev, adds to this story p. 315:

>>1. It is now widely believed that this letter and the following from an "officer"... were part of a plan by local authorities to engineer the imperial family's "escape" in order either to executed them while they were trying to flee or to create a pretext for execution. In the 1960s, a former member of the Ural Cheka, I. Rodzinsky, testified that Pyotr Voikov, a gradudate of the University of Geneva and a member of the Ural Regional Soviet Executive Committe, drafted the letters, which Rodzinsky then copied.

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