Reburial of the remains of Alexei and Maria

[stevek06]

There are several irrelevant letters here. The main issue is the reburial of the remaining two Romanov children. This does not need to be so expensive. The Romanov family have already had a state funeral, so a private Romanov funeral, with teh living descendants in attendance, perhaps eigt soldiers to carry the coffins, an officer to salute the bodies. This would be tasteful enough,

Of course there is the question of the identity of the female body. I KNOW she is Anastasiya. The confusion was caused by the mistake of Dr. Abramov in 1991 who incorrectly identified body 5 as Tatiana and body 6 as Anastasiya. The legs of body 5 were too long to be Tatiana. Marie was 5'7 tall. Tatiana was 5'5". Body 5 was Marie and body 6 was Tatiana. This was correctly established by Dr. Maples who was also at the grave in 1991.

But we must also look at the circumstances of the grave which was discovered in 2007. The Bolsheviks wanted to completely destroy the bodies and they did not do a very good job of this with the nine bodies in the mass grave. So they took the other two bodies to another grave and burned them and treated them with acid. They made a better job of this. But why would they have taken the smallest Romanov body - Alexei - and the largest - Marie ? This does not make sense. They took the two smallest bodies - Alexei and Anastasiya.

But I think it would be OK to ignore this. Anastasiya has already had a funeral so maybe it would be best to bury the remaining body as Marie.

[Alison H]

This is my first post here so I hope it's OK!

I was in St Petersburg earlier this year and I asked the guides at the Peter and Paul Fortress why Marie and Alexei hadn't been buried ... and got three different answers from three different people. One was that DNA tests are still being carried out - but it was announced ages ago that the bodies had been positively identified. One was that it's due to the present regime: the funerals of the others took place in Yeltsin's time, and Yeltsin was quite keen to be associated with pre-revolutionary times - he was also involved in restoring cathedrals damaged by Stalin - whereas the present government isn't really interested in something that happened 94 years ago. & the other was that it's some sort of theological issue - the last funeral was a funeral of "ordinary" (albeit royal) people, but because the whole family's been canonised since then this would be a funeral of two saints, and saints can't be buried in ordinary graves. I don't know how true any of this is, but it's what I was told.

[stevek06]

Thanks for your reply. The true reason for the fact that these other two burials have not taken place is economy. Vladimir Putin is rebuilding Russia at great cost. The state funeral was a very big event. All of the World leaders were there. The British even sent a pipe band for the procession. You can see the state funeral on the internet. There is a theological / political argument. The region of Sverdlovsk believes that they should be buried in Ekaterinburg, in the church that has ben built on the site of the Ipatiev House, but I do not think that this argument would carry any weight. The real problem is the cost of a state funeral.
But my argument is that there is no need for a state funeral. The Romanov family have already had a state funeral so this could be a private Romanov family funeral. It could also be financed by the Romanov family.

The identity of the girl is not a problem. I think that it is obvious that the remaining girl is actually Anastasiya, but Anastasiya has already had a funeral so the remaining girl should be buried as Marie.

This is a problem which is relatively easy to solve. The Russian Government are creating problems which do not really exist.

[Alexey 1904]

I'd say let Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, the supposed 'Head of the House of Romanov' pay for the burial of her ancestors. But, since she doesn't believe that Nicholas and his family aren't buried in the Russian church, she won't fork over any dough.

[NGalitzine]

^^^^
Maria Romanova is not a descendent of Nicholas II. He had no living descendents. At best she is a distant cousin of Alexei and Maria, the Tsars children. I doubt she would do anything that might alienate Tsar Putin.

[Cory]

HIH Grand Duchess Maria of Russia will respect surely the decision of the Russian Orthodox Church on this issue.
The Imperial Family is not involved in politics and have a normal dialogue with the government.

[Alexey 1904]

Yes, I suppose not, since she and the 'Tsar' are on such good relations. The last time she was in Russia, he invited her and her son to 'hurry back' for another visit.

[LLC]

RE: Orthodox Burial by Church
The Orthodox Church of Russia does not recognize those remains as the Russian Imperial Family.
One must draw their own conclusions as to what happened. I did based on two books that I read.
I think that the church was able to get the Imperial Family out of Russia. They had local towns people dress as the Royal Family and switch places. The comments made by the Priests that gave them their last church service at "the house" stated that the family did not even look to be the same people.
As for me, I feel certain that the Church was able to save the Imperial Family members. Tsar Nicholas II had a heart attack sometime during the war with Germany. Answers about this situation should be investigated.
Check out the Tsar's Around the World Trip. Where did he go and who in his family went with him? What year was that?
The mother of King George V of England and the mother of Nicholas II, Empress Maria, were sisters. King George V is the nephew of Empress Maria.
Check out the ship King George V sent to Empress Maria; The Marlborough, un-hearlded and unescorted. There was an Anastasia on board when the ship left Russia. There was also a very tall man named Waldemar on board. Also check out the ship named the Nelson, whose passenger list has not been released to the public.
Empress Maria was able to get many family members out of Russia.
Am seeking answers as to why my male, 1st cousin and I have DNA matches with the Tsar. Especially Autosomal matches. I am T2g2a Haplogroup. Cousin is I1. Tested with Genebase.com and FamilyTree.com.
YSearch.com (KCV4E)
My first cousin looks a great deal like Tsar Nicholas II. I saw a painting of Tsar Nicholas II on a white horse on a snow covered hill and at that age he looked so much like my cousin. Just seeking the truth.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by stevek06

I KNOW she is Anastasiya.

Unless you were there in 1918 when they were killed and buried (or dumped, which might be more suiting), I very much doubt that anyone of us can know for certain if it was either Maria or Anastasia who was found with Alexei.

I do wonder how they concluded that it must have been Maria since it apparently, from a scientific point of view, is impossible to tell which one of the sisters it was.

[stevek06]

There was confusion when the bodies found in the mass grave were buried. The Russian Abramov suggested that body 5 was Tatiana and body 6 was Anastasia. But body 5 was 5'7" tall. This was Marie. Body 6 was too tall to be Anastasiya. Body 6 was Tatiana.

The Bolsheviks separated two bodies because they had not been succesful in destroying the bodies in the mass grave. They wanted to make a better job of destroying the two remaining bodies. Alexei was the smallest. Why would they have chosen the tallest girl ?
It is obvious that the other body is Anastasiya, who was only slightly taller than Alexei.

This matter needs to be put to rest now. It is a very dark shadow on Russian history and teh Russian Government must now do the decent thing.

[PrincessKaimi]

There are indeed scientific methods involving the analysis of tooth enamel that can determine age at the time of death very closely. There are other subsidiary techniques involving teeth and bones that would also give back-up support for the tooth enamel data.

In a best case scenario, all the young females would be studied thoroughly if someone wanted proper burial of them.

The family deserve a monument, actually, a funerary monument befitting what their existing family members and supporters would want to provide.

[stevek06]

I just want these two children to join the rest of their family. It does not need to be a full state funeral. The Romanov family have already had a state funeral. Just a private funeral. The identity is not important. She can be buried as Marie because Marie has not had a funeral.

But they should now be laid to rest with their family.

[AristoCat]

Well, to be honest about Alexei and Marie, I wish they would bury the kids in a simple ceremony, but that is up to the family and they have to foot the bill for it.

Originally Posted by Daria_S

Indeed. The idea of anyone surviving that blood bath was always preposterous to me. No one, outside of a superhuman could have walked (or crawled) out of that basement. The Soviets may have been bad shots, but they certainly made sure that every single person that was supposed to be dead, was (and even if bayonets and bullets didn't completely kill, then being burned in the pit certainly completed the job). Whenever anyone would start talking about a 'survival story' they have seen on the History or the Biography Channel, I would roll my eyes and not even bother, since people will always believe exactly what they want, and swaying them has absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

I believe people wanted to believe it could happen mainly because it's just something that is too horrible to accept. Something along the lines of like how people could never accept that the Holocaust happened, mainly because it's just too horrible.

Maria Romanova is not a descendent of Nicholas II. He had no living descendents. At best she is a distant cousin of Alexei and Maria, the Tsars children. I doubt she would do anything that might alienate Tsar Putin.

I wish people would remember that; Maria Vladimirovna is a distant relation, Rostislav is the more direct descendant and he is the one who is descended from the sister of Nicholas II, the sister Xenia. Maria is such a usurping tool, no different from her great grandfather Kiril and her sucking up to Putin is par the course mainly because she is so power mad that she would suck up to Stalin (like Kiril sucked up to the Provisional government and bargained with the Soviets) if it meant getting a throne.

Which puts to rest the idea that monarchy prevents dictatorships. if the Sovereign is willing to work with any form of government, it shows that monarchs might be more than willing to sit passively by while a dictator terrorizes the people as long as they are left alone.

[Alexey 1904]

Very well said, AristoCat(and also Daria S.with your comments about the "survival" of the last Imperial Family). Very well said, indeed! Now,if only others would believe instead of claiming to be descendants of that family and writing stories about it.