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  #61  
Old 06-14-2008, 09:36 AM
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The Russia Nicholas inherited would not have any been different with or without Alix, but the popularity of the monarchy would not have suffered as much. Alix did not make herself popular neither around the court nor to the masses. She could have learned a lot from the Dowager Empress Marie if she weren't such a religious fanatic and prude. Also, Alix was blamed for not being able to provide a male heir until a decade after her marriage, and he turned out to be a hemophiliac. This was not revealed to the public, and really could not be controlled, but it added to her unpopularity. Also Rasputin would have likely out of the picture, too if Alix wasn't Empress. Finally, if Nicholas had married say Helen d'Orleans (or a non-German princess like so many of his ancestors), at least the Empress would not have been accused of being an enemy spy during WWI.
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  #62  
Old 06-16-2008, 01:22 AM
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Role of Alix

I agree with the recent posters that another Empress would have made little difference. Russia needed to steadily progress in the 1700s and 1800s, but didn't. Progress came late and in spurts. Progress had little chance between reactionary tsars and aristocrats who, for example, limited Catherine the Great's reforms. I don't think there's a big chance for restoring the Romanovs because they "blew it" badly, much as there's little reason to expect a restoration of monarchy in France where the Bourbons and Bonapartes "blew it" badly too (Napoleon III was ignominiously captured by the Prussians).
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  #63  
Old 11-18-2008, 06:03 PM
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I too remember reading where Marie Pavlovna was a great supporter of the marriage between Nicholas and Alix.... Ive got to remember what book I read that in.
reckon it was truly b/c she thought she could mold Alix into the kind of Empress Russia needed/expected..... or whether she, as a German, pressed for a German match just to spite Marie Feodorovna and Alexander III??
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2008, 06:43 PM
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I think it was the German background that was important for her, and that Alix had difficulties converting to the Russian Orthodox church. Miechen hoped that she would stay Lutheran, like herself. I suppose the fact that her sister-in-law was against Alix might have turned her in favour too
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  #65  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:49 PM
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I think it was the German background that was important for her, and that Alix had difficulties converting to the Russian Orthodox church. Miechen hoped that she would stay Lutheran, like herself. I suppose the fat that her sister-in-law was against Alix might have turned her in favour too
Ah! The old feud between the Regal Women!
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  #66  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:08 PM
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Amen! Marie Feodorovna and Marie Pavlovna were not the best of friends, for sure....
Minnie oft referred mockingly to Miechen as "Empress Vladamir".....
a
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  #67  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:29 AM
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Alexandra was part of the problem, not the whole issue. When Nicholas was young, he had a crush on his cousin Toria, daughter of Edward VII of England. But he never seriously considered marrying her and she never married, instead serving as her mother's companion. A marriage to a British Princess would have been okay- no rumors of German spies. But the marriage to Toria could never take place because she was his first cousin, daughter of his mother's sister, and the Russian Orthodox church doesn't allow first cousin marriage, despite the fact it was a common practice among royalty. I guess that's why him marrying Toria was never considered.I suppose Queen Victoria wouldn't have liked the marriage either, a British Princess marrying into Russia.
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  #68  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:50 PM
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Victoria never liked "British Anybody" marrying into the Russian House.
Do you have any sources for Nicholas' crush on Toria? I haven't read that before.
Thanks!
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  #69  
Old 03-28-2009, 07:34 PM
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The book source for the crush on Toria thing ( as as listed in references on another site, I've read the book, but don't have the book in front of me) is the The Romanovs: Love, Power, and Tragedy. It's the photo album book that came out in the early '90s and tends to be a little expensive.
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  #70  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:29 PM
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Didn't Grand Duchess Miechen push for it too, in Gotha? Probably hoping that Alix would be willing to become some kind of protege?
From what I have been able to gather, Aunt Miechen was VERY much pushing for a match between Alix and Nicky... and was later furious to the point of out and out hatred of Alix when she wouldn't follow in the steps of her new aunt...
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  #71  
Old 01-30-2011, 01:09 PM
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The book source for the crush on Toria thing ( as as listed in references on another site, I've read the book, but don't have the book in front of me) is the The Romanovs: Love, Power, and Tragedy. It's the photo album book that came out in the early '90s and tends to be a little expensive.
I'll check the library then. They are pretty darned good about carrying all sorts of stuff. Thanks!
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  #72  
Old 01-30-2011, 04:09 PM
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I'll check the library then. They are pretty darned good about carrying all sorts of stuff. Thanks!
It is also mentioned in Miranda Carter's 'The Three Emperors', though she only mentions Queen Alexandra's objections (turning her daughter in some soirt of personal assistant).
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  #73  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:34 PM
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But I do believe you are correct, Melania. One of the issues of contention about Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's claim as head of the Romanovs is that some consider her a product of a morganatic marriage (among other issues of dispute). Her mother,
Leonida Bagration of Moukhransky, was from demoted former royal family.
Princess Leonida Bagration Mukransky wasnt from former royal family of Georgia.
The former georgian royal family was and is the Bagration Gruzinsky family.
Mukransky family belonged to georgian aristocraty.
When the Russian Empire transformed the Georgian protectorate into simple province of the Empire, the kings and the crown princes lost their rights and throne but they were to incorporate into the imperial aristocracy with a rank and predicat upper to the high nobility - same title as Tartars, Russians (descendants of the elder sons(brothers) Riukhikides) ex sovereigns.... Gruzinski were superior to Mukranski.
Mukranski received the imperial rank of nobility on their rank in the Georgian order. It was a simple transposition.
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  #74  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:19 PM
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I read he wanted to marry a Russian ballet dancer
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  #75  
Old 12-31-2011, 11:54 PM
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I read he wanted to marry a Russian ballet dancer
Yes and it was mathilde kessheyka? I and not sure how to spell her last name but that was when he was a Czarevich and hadn't met alix and mathilde ended up marrying an uncle of Nicholas II.
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  #76  
Old 01-01-2012, 01:24 AM
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Mathilde was his mistress, and later the mistress of a couple of other Grand Dukes, but I never heard of any wish to marry on his part. His parents did try to fix him up with Helene d'Orleans and with Margaret of Prussia but he wasnt interested. As far as I know Alix of Hesse was the only woman he expressed any interest in marrying.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:35 AM
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So all she wanted was Money.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:22 AM
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How about Nicholas married Alix, but he gives up his claim to the throne thus giving Michael the crown; maybe things would have gone better.
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  #79  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:06 PM
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So all she wanted was Money.
Well there was something of a tradition of Grand Dukes taking ballerinas as mistresses and having love affairs, and no doubt they cared for each other. It did not hurt the dancers careers to have an Imperial patron. Mathilde receive lovely gifts of jewels and objets d'art. After Nicholas she became the joint mistress of Grand Dukes Serge and Andrei. After the revolution she married Andrei but I am not sure anyone was really positive on who the actual father of her son was. She resumed dancing/teaching in order to support her family when they lived in exile.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi
How about Nicholas married Alix, but he gives up his claim to the throne thus giving Michael the crown; maybe things would have gone better.
It is very possible that a lot of the stuff Nicholas did wouldn't have happened, but revolutionaries want only to kill not to better politics
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