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Old 04-24-2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Yes, it was Alix who was the main problem in everyone's eyes. There was so much anti-German fervor that the Windsors changed their dynastic name (to Windsor of course). Either way, it was a cowardly act.

I hope that the Windsors are never in need of refuge at the hands of any other royal family, I can tell you that much. There is a thing such as karma and I hope taht they don't need refuge, or the royals of the world might instead ask "Why, when you didn't help the Romanovs?"
How silly. 1) none of the other royal families, not even their cousins the Danes, went to their rescue either. 2) We're British and its the 21st century so we are unlikely to go in for Bolshevik type revolutions unless we succumb to some mass national drug induced hysteria.

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Old 04-24-2012, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexey 1904 View Post
My dear VM: I'm ashamed to say this, but at the moment, I don't remember where I read that about Queen Mary. I know it was either in one of my 'Majesty' magazines or perhaps, a book on the Romanovs. I got the feeling that Q. Mary didn't mind 'Nicky', but couldn't stand Alix, just like her husband. I will search my mags and books to see where I saw that. Wherever I saw it, it said when K.George discussed it with his wife, she simply said 'no' to the idea of the Romanovs moving in. In 'The Last Days of the Romanovs', when Mary and George did find out 3 or 4 days after the R's. had been executed,they were very sad, and kept George's aunt Helena waiting more than an hour for lunch while they mourned 'Nicky's' passing. At that point, Queen Mary referred to the Bolsheviks as 'those brutes who killed Nicky'. I don't recall if she said anything about Alexandra and the children.
My dear Alexey,

Thank you for this information. It is not surprising that Mary may have disliked Alexandra -- many people did as well. It was not Alix's nature to endear herself to others in the family. Besides Nicky, she really only seemd to have one or two close friends and they were not family members.

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Old 04-24-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
How silly. 1) none of the other royal families, not even their cousins the Danes, went to their rescue either. 2) We're British and its the 21st century so we are unlikely to go in for Bolshevik type revolutions unless we succumb to some mass national drug induced hysteria.
My dear NGalitzine,

I quite agree. I don't believe there will be any mobs calling for the heads of the British royal family. When one considers the mortality rates of the Romanovs from palace coups and assassinations, it is any wonder that the Bolsheviks killed their former ruler.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:36 AM
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Alexey, I too, understood that Mary infuenced George in his decision not to allow exile to Nicky et al. I have a feeling that I heard "her" say it in a television drama. I seem to think that following a conversation with Stamfordham regarding it and coming to a decision in favour of it, George spoke with Mary about it later and she voiced enough doubt about the wisdom of it to make him rethink. I can only assume that he already had doubts because I can't see him allowing Mary to influence him were it not so.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:27 PM
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I agree with you, VM. One person who definitly was not endeared by Alix was her mother-in-law, the Dowager Empress. NGalitzine, as far as the Danes coming to the rescue of their Russian cousins, I've also heard that his mother, Dowager Queen Alexandra of Denmark, TOLD, not ASKED him to rescue her sister, his aunt, Marie(a) Feodorovna by sending a ship to pick her and other Russian relatives up in exile. Being the dutiful son he was, he did not disobey 'MotherDear'. Marie went back to Denmark.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:21 PM
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Here's a good series I just watched:

The Murder of the Romanovs Part 1

The Murder of the Romonovs Part 2

Here's another:

Mystery of The Romanovs, Part 1

Mystery of The Romanovs, Part 2

Mystery of The Romanovs, Part 3

Mystery of The Romanovs, Part 4

Mystery of The Romanovs, Part 5

I watched all of these and I adore the well done re-enactments.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:36 PM
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My dear AristoCat,

Thank you for posting these clips. I have not watched all 5 parts of the latter series but there is a glaring error in Part 4. There were only three skeletons found which could have been the remains of young women and people questioned whether Marie or Anastasia's remains were missing. The program shows a photo of the royal family and identifies (by highlighting the figure) four skeletons as being that the of the Tsar, the Empress, Olga and Tatiana but the producers or directors highlighted Marie's photo when they meant to highlight Tatiana. I cannot believe this escaped the fact checkers.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:06 PM
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Who knows, but it is a good series either way. I didn't put it together.

Eitehr way, it set the most chilling precedent possible when it came not just to Communism, but Nazism as well.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:41 AM
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BBC News - Tsar Nicholas - exhibits from an execution
Tsar Nicholas - exhibits from an execution

By Martin Vennard BBC News
Busts of the late Tsar Nicholas II and his wife Alexandra are on display
Continue reading the main story Related Stories
For the first time, Russians have the chance to examine the evidence surrounding the execution of Tsar Nicholas II and his family following the Russian Revolution almost 100 years ago.
An exhibition on their detention, killings and the subsequent investigations into them has opened at the Russian State Archives in Moscow.
It comes as Russians continue to reassess the reputation of their last tsar.
He and his family and four members of staff were killed without trial by Bolsheviks in the early hours of 17 July 1918, in the cellar of a house in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg.
The Soviet authorities drew a veil over what had happened.
The exhibition's curator, Marina Siderova, says Russians now want to know more about the subject
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:10 PM
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Memorial to Imperial Children 'Vandalized' | Russia | RIA Novosti
Vandals have damaged the site in the Urals where the remains of two members of the Russian imperial family were found five years ago, a heritage watchdog said on Monday.
The vandals removed a cross and dumped it in a nearby bush in the second act of vandalism at the site in the last two years, said Sergei Pogorelov, a spokesman for the Sverdlovsk region's Center for the Protection and Use of Listed Buildings.
It was erected on the spot outside Yekaterinburg where the remains of two of Tsar Nicholas II's children, Tsarevich Aleksei and Tsarevna Maria, were found in July 2007.
The bodies of the Tsarevich and Tsarevna were not among those buried in the mass grave after the Romanov family were murdered by the Bolshevik revolutionaries in 1918.
The Tsar, his wife Alexandra, and their five children were proclaimed Orthodox Church saints in 2000. Interfax-Religion
Cross vandalized at Russian royal family memorial near Yekaterinburg

Yekaterinburg, June 25, Interfax - The memorial cross has been vandalized in the place outside Yekaterinburg, where the remains of Russian Tsar Nicholas II's children, Alexey and Maria, were discovered, said Archaeologist Sergey Pogorelov.

"My colleagues visited the place yesterday, examined the surrounding territory and found the cross in the shrubs nearby. The cross had been pulled out, removed and thrown away," Pogorelov, a researcher at the regional center for the protection of historical and cultural heritage, told Interfax on Monday.

"It is an outrageous act of hooliganism, or a provocation," the archaeologist said.

After the royal family was executed at Ipatyev House in Yekaterinburg in 1918, the bodies were moved to an abandoned mine, Ganina Yama, not far from the city and thrown into a well. The well was not deep enough to hide the bodies, so they were lifted to be moved to another place.

As the convoy was moving it got stuck in a marshy area, called Porosyonkov Log, where the Bolsheviks dug a pit, and dumped the bodies into it after pouring sulfuric acid onto them. Nine of the 12 bodies were buried in the same place, and the two others, those of Crown Prince Alexey and his sister Maria, were buried separately in a forest.

The first remains were discovered back in 1978, but excavation work had not been done until 1991. Alexey's and Maria's remains were found much later, in 2007. All bones were put through numerous laboratory tests, historical, archaeological and archive studies have been conducted, and anthropologists, dentists and genetics scientists examined them, which led to the conclusion that the remains found were those of members of the royal family.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:53 PM
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The Death of Tsar Nicholas II's Family | Russian State Archives | Romanovs' Fate Revealed | By Jonathan Earle -
Romanovs' Fate Revealed
more in Arts & Entertainment | Find New $LINKTEXTFIND$ »


Nicholas Romanov, the deposed czar of Russia, and his family were awakened in the middle of the night on July 16-17, 1918, and told to get dressed. They were being moved to a safe location, their Bolshevik captors said, away from the White army that was closing in on Yekaterinburg, in the southern Ural Mountains.
The soldiers shepherded the family and four servants—a cook, valet, doctor and maid—into the basement of the house where they were being held. Nicholas carried his ailing son, Alexei, in his arms. Once all were assembled, a death sentence was read aloud, twice, and the eight executioners raised their guns.
Precisely what happened next took Soviet and Russian investigators nearly a century to piece together.
Now the results of those investigations, the last of which was closed last year, are the subject of an ambitious exhibition at the Russian State Archives in Moscow. "The Death of Tsar Nicholas II's Family: A One-Hundred Year Investigation," through July 29, aims to clear away seven decades of misinformation and silence under the Soviet regime.
"The Soviet government hid all of this true story from the people for so long," said Diana, a 22-year-old student, who said she was struck by the savagery of the execution, which ended in a bayonet charge.
The truth presented here is an ugly one. "None of the Romanovs were saved on that terrible night, and all the remains of the family and those who were with them have now been accounted for," said Sergei Mironenko, director of the Russian State Archives and co-organizer of the exhibition.
There were, in other words, no romantic escapes, no jaunting through Europe, no hidden riches—not even for Anastasia, at 17 years old the youngest duchess, whose purported survival has inspired numerous films and theater productions.
The executions closed the door on the 300-year-old Romanov dynasty and foreshadowed years of violence to come under Bolshevik rule.
But silence from the Soviet government—a single line in Pravda, "Nicholas Romanov has been executed. His family has been evacuated to a safe location," is all that the Soviet government had to say on the matter until 1991—led to rumors that the family had survived and gave rise to scores of imposters. "Not even Nicholas's mother and sisters believed he was dead," Mr. Mironenko said.
State investigators went to extraordinary lengths to determine what happened in the basement of the Ipatiev House and how the executioners disposed of the bodies.
"DNA tests, mitochondrial DNA tests, dental exams, anthropological studies, situational studies and trace-material studies. You name it, they did it," Mr. Mironenko said. Many of the results of these studies are on display, including a map of the murder scene that shows where the participants stood, how they moved around the room, and where each bullet fell.
The exhibition also includes rare artifacts from the first investigation, conducted in 1919 after the Whites captured Yekaterinburg, such as part of the jaw of the Romanovs' family doctor, Yevgeny Botkin; the investigator's notebooks; and bullets found in a shallow mineshaft where the bodies were initially dumped. "This is essentially the first time that Russians have a chance to view these items, which recount a tragic page in Russia's history," wrote Friar Vladimir von Tsurikov, dean of Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville, N.Y., in an emailed message. The seminary contributed a copy of the 1919 report and other artifacts.
Visitors on a Friday afternoon said they were delighted to see so many original documents, including Nicholas's letter of abdication, dated March 2, 1917, and his diary entry of that same date in which he wrote: "I'm surrounded by treachery, cowardice and deception."
"That the documents are original is the most important thing," a middle-age woman
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:29 PM
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Russian Orthodox Church To Clarify Stance on Tsar Family Remains | Russia | RIA Novosti
Russian Orthodox Church To Clarify Stance on Tsar Family Remains

2 / 2

Patriarch Kirill
© RIA Novosti. Vladimir Astapkovich
Tsar Nicholas II with his family
© RIA Novosti

18:55 26/07/2012

KIEV, July 26 (RIA Novosti)

Tags: murder, Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, Nicholas II, Yekaterinburg
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The Russian Orthodox Church is planning to clarify its position regarding the recognition of the remains of Tsar Nicholas II and his family members who were murdered by the Bolsheviks shortly after the Russian Revolution, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia said on Thursday.
Addressing members of the Holy Synod in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, the patriarch said he had received “very important information” from New York about the circumstances of the tsar family’s murder in July 1918.
“I suppose these circumstances will help us define our position, including that related to the so-called ‘Yekaterinburg remains,'” the patriarch said, without specifying what kind of information he had obtained.
He said he intended to share the materials with members of the Holy Synod and work out a unified position on the issue.
The Romanov family – the last Russian tsar Nicholas II, his German-born wife Alexandra, their four daughters and son – and several servants, were shot dead by the Bolsheviks in a basement in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg in the early hours of July 17, 1918.
The remains of most of the murdered tsar family members and their servants were discovered outside Yekaterinburg in July 1991 and buried in the Cathedral of Saints Peter and Paul in St. Petersburg in the summer of 1998.
In 2007, seven years after the murdered Romanovs were canonized in 2000, two bodies that had been missing - the daughter and son of tsar Nicholas II - were discovered near Yekaterinburg.
DNA tests confirmed that the discovered remains were authentic, but the Church has so far refused to recognize their authenticity. It instead favors the version put forward by the original investigator, Nikolai Sokolov, who argued back in 1919 that the Romanov family’s remains had been completely destroyed
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:30 PM
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Russian investigator doesn't doubt imperial remains are authentic

Moscow, July 26, Interfax - The Russian Investigative Committee is prepared to examine new evidence on the execution of the Russian imperial family available to the Russian Orthodox Church, but does not doubt that the "Yekaterinburg remains" are authentic.

"If new evidence has emerged, we will gladly study it and we are prepared for cooperation," Vladimir Solovyov, the senior forensic investigators of the Investigative Committee's Main Forensic Department, who investigated the execution of the family of the last Russian tsar Nicholas II, told Interfax on Thursday,

"We have no doubts that the remains found near Yekaterinburg are those of members of the tsar's family and their domestic servants," he said.

This was vividly proven in tests, conducted in 2007-2008, he added.

"Absolutely unique tests were conducted with samples of Nicholas II's blood. The genotype of the blood on Nichols II's shirt after he was wounded in Japan in 1891 fully coincided with the genotype of skeleton No.4. This genotype can be clearly tracked to heir to the throne Alexey," he said.

"Whichever new objects may be produced, we will gladly study them. I am sure they will prove again, as it happened over the past 20 years, that the remains of the imperial family were buried [near Yekaterinburg]," Solovyov said.

Neither the Russian Orthodox Church, nor the House of Romanov has recognized the authenticity of the remains, citing the absence of sufficient evidence.

It emerged on Thursday that the Moscow Patriarchate could change its position on the "Yekaterinburg remains."
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:31 PM
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New proof will hopefully end dispute over royal remains authenticity - House of Romanov (updated)

Moscow, July 26, Interfax - The House of Romanov will be guided by the Russian Orthodox Church's position on the authenticity of the remains of the family of the last Russian tsar Nicholas II.

The House of Romanov head, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, will recognize the remains buried at the Sts Peter and Paul Cathedral in St. Petersburg as those of the royal family, if the Russian Orthodox Church says they are authentic, the House of Romanov spokesman Alexander Zakatov told Interfax on Thursday.

The Russian Orthodox Church and the House of Romanov have not recognized yet that the remains are authentic, citing the absence of sufficient evidence.

It emerged on Thursday that the Moscow Patriarchate may change its position on the "Yekaterinburg remains."

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia told the Holy Synod in Kiev on Thursday that important information has arrived from New York, where the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is headquartered, connected with circumstances of the death of the imperial family. "I hope these circumstances will help shape our position, including on the so-called 'Yekaterinburg remains,'" the Russian Patriarch said.

"We have learnt that material evidence - a report by investigator Nikolay Sokolov, [who probed the execution of the royal family in 1919 on commission from Admiral Alexander Kolchak] - was discovered in Brussels some time ago, when the church built in commemoration of the martyr-tsar was being restored," Zakatov said.

"Perhaps these materials and additional tests will throw light on some aspects of the situation. It would be premature to speculate on radical change, but Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has been informed of the latest developments by Metropolitan Hilarion of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia," he said.

"We hope a new investigation will lead us to more objective results than those obtained by a commission in 1998," he added.

"The Russian Orthodox Church's refusal to recognize the Yekaterinburg remains as authentic were due to serious doubts. If these doubts are dispelled, the church will probably change its position. And in this case the head of the House of Romanov will join the church in recognizing the remains as authentic," Zakatov said.

He said that lead containers were found when a wall of the church was being restored in Brussels, and one carried a letter about the history of this material evidence, he said.

"Investigator Sokolov handed the material evidence to Prince Shirinsky-Shikhmatov at one time. Then the prince's son handed it over to the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. It was initially kept at an Orthodox church in Paris and was then passed to the church under construction in Brussels," Zakatov said.

"The lead containers carried glass jars filled with soil from the Ganina Yama site where the bodies of the royal family and their domestic servants were burned," he said.

"The glass jars are filled with soil and clay mixed with tissues that remained after the bodies were burned. This provides certain genetic matter for further tests," he said.

Eleven people, including members of the Russian Imperial Family and people from their entourage, were shot at the Urals regional council presidium's order in the early hours of July 17, 1918.

A grave with nine bodies was found on Staraya Koptyakovskaya Road near Yekaterinburg in July 1991. The remains were identified as those of Emperor Nicholas II, his 46-year-old wife Alexandra Fyodorovna, their daughters Olga, 22, Tatyana, 21, and Anastasia, 17, and their servants Yevgeny Botkin, 53, Anna Demidova, 40, Aloizy Trupp, 62, and Ivan Kharitonov, 48.

The remains of two more people were discovered during archaeological excavation works 70 kilometers south of the first grave on July 26, 2007. The remains have still not been buried, but numerous expert analyses indicate that the remains were most likely those of Crown Prince Alexei and his sister Maria.

The Presidium of the Russian Supreme Court ruled to rehabilitate Nicholas II and his family members on October 1, 2008.

The Investigative Committee said in January 2011 that it had completed an investigation into the death of Nicholas II, his family members and entourage and closed the criminal case.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:32 PM
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Order to Kill Tsar's Family Came from U.S., Scholar Says | News | The Moscow Times
Order to Kill Tsar's Family Came from U.S., Scholar Says

26 July 2012
The Moscow Times

Wikimedia Commons
Tsar Nicholas II, as seen in a photograph taken at Tsarskoye Selo after his abdication, was executed along with family members in a Yekaterinburg basement in 1918.

A Russian historian said Wednesday that U.S. tycoons gave the order to assassinate the entire family of the last Russian tsar, Nicholas II.
Pyotr Multatuli, a researcher with the Academy of Sciences, did not deny that the Bolshevik leadership in Moscow initiated plans to murder Nicholas II in 1918 in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg but said a U.S. mission was behind the decision to murder the tsar's close family.
In an Argumenty i Fakty report, Multatuli cited secret conversations between the head of the Bolshevik Central Executive Committee and one of the executioners as proving that a U.S. financial-industrial organization told Russian officials of "the necessity of killing the whole family."
The order was sent to Moscow via a U.S. organization stationed in Vologda, Multatuli said, adding that its members saw the complete destruction of tsarist Russia as essential to fulfilling their plans to a fashion a unipolar world with the United States as the sole power.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:49 PM
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I don't believe a word of that. I don't think the U.S. wanted to be, necessarily a "world power" in 1918. We were largely isolationists until WWII. It was the RISE of Communism and Nazism which got us involved in world affairs.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:23 PM
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People of Russia do not have to repent for tsar family killing – culture minister

Moscow, October 31, Interfax - Russian Culture Minister Vladimir Medinsky does not believe that the blame for the killing of Russia's last Emperor Nicholas II and his family rests with the people of Russia.

"I don't believe the people of Russia should repent for the killing of the tsar's family because the people of Russia did not kill the tsar's family. It was done by several bastards on the orders of other bastards," the minister said at the 5th International Festival of Orthodox Media Faith and Word, commenting on the statement made by one delegate referring to the discussion on the need for the people of Russia to repent for their sins to the tsar's family, which has been occurring on the Internet for the past few years.

Medinsky also spoke about the issue of the burial of the body of Vladimir Lenin, saying that "the Culture Ministry will not come up with any initiatives regarding any burials and re-burials."

"It is our official position, and there is also my private opinion as a citizen," the minister said, adding that he would not like his private opinion on this issue, which he characterize as "rather sharp," to be associated with the official position of the government
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:56 PM
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I agree with the minister - The Russian people do not have to repent for what happened. What I do want is for the Russian people to demand the truth to finally be told about what happened. But I see this as being very slim. I personally believe there is no-one left alive in Russia today who really knows what happened to the Imperial family. And who could substantiate the truth with hard irrefutable evidence.
History has ill served this family with the truth. Summers and Mangold did a great job producing FACTS for the reader.
Lets not forget the historical version does not come from a report but from Sokolovs book. Don't forget the many forensic experts opinion of Sokolovs so called facts.
I only hope that one day the truth will come out.
One must read The File on the Tsar to have an understanding of how bad Sokolov's book really was.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:55 PM
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Look, innocent children were murdered. There will never be a good excuse. The Romanov's were despots and horrible to the population, what happened was retribution, but in spades. A trial or something legal and an execution of the Tsar was one thing. To kill an entire family was inexcusable. And, no, there is no one to point the finger at, as they are all gone.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:39 PM
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umm if i recall the last imperial was pretty decent to the population unlike the rest of the family even felt shame when they got talked into doing dumb things towards their people only thing was they where really behind the times and unable to change only other fact was nicolhas was trained rather poorly to be an autocrat as well n the repent thing was started by boirs yeltson which was a dumb move since they have had nothing to do with the murders

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ekaterinburg, murder of the imperial family

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