Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[Emperor Wilhelm IX]

Just jumping in here with my $.02. I have not read the entire thread but skimmed it.

I think at this point any country wishing to restore a monarchy, including Russia, the restoration would need to be practical and serve a purpose which would meet the needs of the country. But I wonder if in the general population if the minds of many people view monarchy as outdated and irrelevant? I don't see it that way, but I wonder if others do?

 

[BorisRom]

Roc about Nicholas II

The Russian Church believes Nicholas II should set a pattern for nowadays Russian politicians

Moscow, June 18, Interfax - The Russian Orthodox Church urges to unveil the myth about Emperor Nicholas II as a weak-willed politician and believes that today political leaders have a lot to learn from him, Interfax-Religion has reported.
"Emperor Nicholas II was an example for politicians of his time and I believe he should set the pattern for politicians nowadays," Archbishop Vikenty of Yekaterinburg and Verkhniaya Tura said in his interview to the Yekaterinburgskaya Initsiativa website.
"When we study his state activity, we see that he applied Christian values he had been educated in at his policy. He tried to implant these values to the leaders of other states he was communicating with," the archbishop said.
According to him, organizing an international court in The Hague was the effective result of the last Russian emperor's activity.
"Many states of the world use his good idea and other international institutes such as the United Nations emerged later and on its base. It proves that Emperor Nicholas II was an important world political figure as he was an appeaser of all states and a peacemaker," the archbishop stressed.
He also noted that population increase exceeded 3 million a year under Nicholas II and "if we had kept on, we would have had 600 million of Russians today."
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4805
More see:
http://www.interfax-religion.ru/?act=radio&div=885 (in Russian)

 

[Michael HR]

Having a Tsar would allow Russia to link with it's past and act as a figure head for the future while remaining outside politics. HM Queen Elizabeth II or Queen Beatrix are good examples of this. They tie the country together in a broad way and give it an identity to look towards.

 

[Russophile]

Having a Tsar would allow Russia to link with it's past and act as a figure head for the future while remaining outside politics. HM Queen Elizabeth II or Queen Beatrix are good examples of this. They tie the country together in a broad way and give it an identity to look towards.

That's an interesting way of looking at it because they have, IMO, a bit of a thuggy reputation right now.

 

[BorisRom]

Nicholas II is NomberOne in Russian poll

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4944

Nicholas II still leading in suspended famous Russians poll

Moscow, July 16, Interfax - Anyone wishing to vote for a particular outstanding Russian figure in the contest called "Russia's Name. Historical choice-2008" will now have to wait: the voting on the official website has been suspended.
"Dear visitors, the poll has been temporarily suspended for technical reasons," the website said on Wednesday, on the page of the contest conducted by the Rossiya TV channel, the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Russian History and the Public Opinion center.

Read the entire article here.

 

[NotAPretender]

My Russian-based colleagues feel that any monarchy restoration or rejuvenation there is simply absurd; it is "unwarranted" and "foolish." They're not fervent revolutionists or anything of the like; I occupy a financial universe, and so do they. They enjoy capitalism at its best.

One cracked to me during a visit that even the wealth flowing in Russia now might not be enough to feed M.V. and her son, tracing fingers in the air for, er, roundness. So it's not as though they find the pretenders all that impressive either.

No, like France, done is done on the royal end in Russia, methinks. I can't see there being any benefit to a Russian royal family. It would not be unifying (there already *is* Russian unity,) and a "royal" family is not going to advance the reputation of the nation internationally. Those would be the only reasons to even think about restoring a monarchy. Russia certainly has had stable leadership, economically it continues to advance, it has a strong monetary system.

A royal family would be dilutive, not accretive. So why bother?

 

[Michael HR]

The need for the Crown

I suppose the only way for this to be decided is to put it to the Russian people as a vote. If no thats the end of it. If yes they would then have to decide which familly to elevate, one assumes the Romonoff's, and which member to be Tsar/Tsarina along with which form the Crown takes, as one assumes autocrat would not be brought back.

 

[Al_bina]

It would be better to leave the well alone

Russia is no pressing need of any societal transformations. As noted by NotAPretender, current Russians- young westernized professionals- do not embrace an idea of restoration. What can a newly restored Tzar do those can not be done by the current government? Additionally, restoration is fraught with some complicated issues (e.g., property redistribution and reparations to former nobles and rich people, who lost everything during nationalization of 1917). I am sure that new rich people do not wish to share their newly acquired property.

 

[BorisRom]

Nicholas II leads the rating of the most attractive figures - a poll

Most Russians stand for Nicholas II rehabilitation - a poll


Moscow, November 17, Interfax - About 70 percent of Russians approves of Nicholas II and his family rehabilitation, while only 11 percent are against it, the All-Russia Public Opinion Research Center has found out.

The poll held in November in 140 cities and towns of 42 regions, districts and republics of Russia, proved that majority of those who back up the decision of the Russian Supreme Court to rehabilitate the last Russian Emperor and his family are supporters of the Yedinaya Rossia and Spravedlivaya Rossia political parties (74 percent and 70 percent correspondingly.) Inhabitants of big cities and villagers (73 percent) and Russians aged from 25 to 59 (71-72 percent) agree with them.

Followers of the Communist Party (27 percent) and residents of towns (15-18 percent) are usually against rehabilitation of the royal family.

According to the poll, Nicholas II leads the rating of the most attractive figures of revolutionary times (44 percent.) The research also showed that the number of Russians who cherished kindly feelings to Lenin and Stalin has thrice reduced for the last three years (from 50 percent to 42 percent and from 37 percent to 28 percent correspondingly,) whereas the number of those who are negative about Nicholas II has reduced from 28 to 22 percent.

In full see:
Interfax-Religion

 

[Baroness Squigy]

Would the Monarchy be restored if....

If living descendants of Grand Duchess Anastasia were found? I mean, I heard right now the Russian people really want to restore the Monarchy, would that give it the extra push it needs? Now, I know many of you will say they won't find her descendants cause she was killed with the rest of the Romanovs, but that's not the subject here.

 

[MAfan]

Even if she would have survived, married and had descendants;
her marriage would not have been equal, she would not have married a royal (I guess), so her descendants would not have any right to the Russian Throne. They would have rights only if she, as Empress or Head of the Family, would have chenged the Family Laws, but: - if she had survived to the night of 18 July 1918, we don't know anything about her later life, and so we don't know if she changed the Family Laws; btw I guess she would have informed the other members of the Family, and this has not happened; - if she had died in Ekaterimburg, or soon later, she had no chance to change the Law.
So, even if she had descendants, nothing would change the present status quo in the Russian Imperial Family.

 

[jonnydep]

with all respect.
to my understanding- all the imperial family has now been accounted for, have they not !!!
i hope you will be understanding and i am deeply sorry.......

 

[Lumutqueen]

Your quite right jonny and MAfan, the russian royal family have all been accounted for. Your question can be simply answered with common sense. The answer being no for many reasons.

 

[Baroness Squigy]

No, you don't understand the question. I'm asking if Anastasia had descendants, then wouldn't the rightful heir to the throne be them cause she was the only living child of the Tsar? I mean, I know he was abdicated, but it would be a BIG deal if they could prove her descendants, would it not? Well at any case, I must say Johnny Depp, you don't have a good way with words, because I found your comment condescending and rude. I really have not felt welcome since I joined this forum, so I'll just cease to come.

 

[jonnydep]

I'm asking if Anastasia had descendants, then wouldn't the rightful heir to the throne be them cause she was the only living child of the Tsar?.

sorry, i am somewhat puzzled as to what you mean by the adove, can you explain more fully, as i do not understand where you are comming from ?

it has been mentioned adove, that all the members of the russian imperial family has been accounted for. they was ALL KILLED on the night 16/17 july 1918. it had been provened by DNA RESULTS, as recent as 2008.

i repeat, i say this with all respect, we are here to help you, as you show that you have a lack of understanding sometimes.

i am sorry you find me rude etc, but i was not meaning to be such

 

[Lumutqueen]

Your are quite right jonny. Baroness there is no reason to hypothesize what might be true when it clearly can never happen. Anastasia died aged 17 and umarried how can she have descendants?

 

[Baroness Squigy]

It was simply a hypothetical question. I was asking if (as the story goes) Anastasia DID indeed survive and have children and descendants, than would they reinstate the Monarchy, or at least know of her descendants as pretenders. I'm sorry if this annoys you, and Johnny, I did not mean to say you were rude, just that you seemed angry because you think I made a useless post.

 

[MAfan]

Baroness Squigy, I've already answered to your question: if they existed, they would not have any right to the Russian Throne. The reasons are explained in my post before.

 

[Marsel]

If living descendants of Grand Duchess Anastasia were found? I mean, I heard right now the Russian people really want to restore the Monarchy, would that give it the extra push it needs? Now, I know many of you will say they won't find her descendants cause she was killed with the rest of the Romanovs, but that's not the subject here.

I don't think there is any particularly strong feeling among the Russians that the Monarchy should be restored.
There is some nostalgia, I guess, but very few would actually want a restoration.

If it were revealed that Anastasia survived and had descendants, her descendants would probably be honoured in some way (like given the title of "Prince(ss) of Russia"), however I doubt that even then there would be serious talk of the Monarchy's restoration.
There would also be legal question about any possible marriage she, or her descendants, would have conducted, because it is highly likely all of them would be morganatic.
In any case, as descendants of one of Nicholas's daughters, they would still be behind some of the other claimants to the Throne.

By and large, I think we are pretty satisfied with the system we have now, incredible though it may sound to a lot of Western people, who believe Russia is buried under corruption and lawless regime.

 

[branchg]

Even in the hypothetical, Anastasia's place would have come after her cousin, Grand Duke Cyril, since he took precedence as a male.

The Vladimirovchi would still have inherited the throne if it existed. Only if Tsarevitch Alexis survived (which was highly unlikely due to the hemophilia) would the throne have remained in Nicholas' line.

 

[branchg]

If it ys revealed that Anastasia survived and had descendants, her descendants would probably be honoured in some way (like given the title of "Prince(ss) of Russia")

They wouldn't. If she married, her children would have taken their name from their father, not her.

Only the grandchildren of a Tsar in the male-line were entitled to HH Prince/Princess of Russia. And that's if they married equally, with the style continuing to pass to each successive eldest male that remained in union with the Pauline Law.

 

[Marsel]

I am aware of that.
However, if such descendants were found, they could (and I believe, would) be honoured by the Russian Government, not necessarily in compliance with the Succession Laws or Decrees.
It would be merely a symbolic recognition, nothing else.

 

[Baroness Squigy]

Yeah that makes sense. It would be out of honor, not any true claim. I see. Thank you.

 

[branchg]

Well, the Russian Government takes no official position on the matters of the Imperial House of Romanov, except to recognize HIH Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna as the Head of the House.

Any recognition or title would have to come from the Grand Duchess, not the Government, as the monarchy no longer exists.

 

[Marsel]

You are perfectly right in the currently existing situation.
However, if in the hypothetical case it were proved that survived and had descendants, it would create a huge emotional bubble among the Russians; they would want something to be done, and done immediately. The Government would have to react in some way.

I doubt they would recognize Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna as Head of the House in the case; they would be neutral at the very best.


Of course, the above is purely hypothetical and we can be reasonably sure that none of the children of Nicholas and Alexandra survived.
It is just somewhat interesting to speculate what could have been done, if something happened differently.
I, for one, love speculating whether Britain would become the Great Empire it was under Queen Victoria's reign, if Princess Charlotte (or her child) survived.

.

 

[Marsel]

There has been a lot of activity around the Romanovs lately.
Quite a few politicians (although admittedly, not some of the most notable ones) expressed their views on the Family and/or the prospect of restoration. Alexander Belov, former leader of MAII (Movement against Illegal Immigration) and a noted historian offered his views on the subject.
You can read more information in this blog entry.

 

[RoyalistRiley]

Belov has some interesting things to say. It would sure be something if Russia became a monarchy again, although I think it would be quite unlikley at the moment.

 

[Al_bina]

Marsel,
Thanks for keeping us abreast of the Romanovs' current affairs.
It remains to be see what may come out of this situation. However, the bickering between various factions of the Romanovs tends to look no-to-so-aristocratic and reminds me of greedy relatives fighting over old pots and pans. If they wish to restore the monarchy, it is deemed expedient for them to unite.

 

[lucien]

Marsel,
Thanks for keeping us abreast of the Romanovs' current affairs.
It remains to be see what may come out of this situation. However, the bickering between various factions of the Romanovs tends to look no-to-so-aristocratic and reminds me of greedy relatives fighting over old pots and pans. If they wish to restore the monarchy, it is deemed expedient for them to unite.

The Romanovs invented quarrelling,and made an Art of it.It was so in the old days,and it hasn't changed a bit in our times.

 

[branchg]

None of the current descendants are in compliance with the Pauline Laws and all are morganatic. Maria's mother is Georgian and her son is a Hohenzollern, two things which are extremely controversial to average Russians.

I just don't see any prospect of a restoration and the family's reign ended in 1917 with Grand Duke Michael's refusal to accept the throne, passing his sovereign powers to the Provisional Government pending a referendum of the Russian people. Given that point, the throne could be offered to anyone.