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  #141  
Old 01-24-2008, 01:30 PM
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Sorry Avalon, highly doubtful that it is. I blog on another site where there are notables weighing in on this subject. One is a highly regarded doctor who just explained the how the tests are inconclusive. It is not for me to publish his findings here. But from what I just read (basically DNA for dummies) there is no way that they could have gotten conclusive results from 44 fragments. Also, they say it's Marie. Marie was OLDER at the time of death than what they are claiming. Yet they still claim it's Marie.
Russian wants this all to go away so they will do whatever they can say whatever they can and however they can to absolve themselves of this messy, messy business.
It's not over Avalon, not by a long shot!
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  #142  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:38 PM
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What difference does it make. They would all be very old and certainly not alive today. I, do, think they were all killed together. These fanciful fabrications, such as Anna Anderson, were just that.
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  #143  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:47 PM
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And you are most welcome to think that. But, if it were YOUR relatives, I think you'd reconsider.
  #144  
Old 01-24-2008, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
What difference does it make. They would all be very old and certainly not alive today. I, do, think they were all killed together. These fanciful fabrications, such as Anna Anderson, were just that.
I believe that all human beings should be honored and have a proper burial. For them to be murded in such in a way and their bodys dumped and lost for so many years is a travesty! They need to be found.
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  #145  
Old 01-24-2008, 09:31 PM
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Alexis was a full blown hemophiliac. Unfortunately, inherited from his relationship to Queen Victoria. He suffered massive hemorrahages, such as the one at Spala, where he almost died. The poor child suffered greatly. He, certainly, would not have survived. The gilrs were not "bleeders". Hemophilia does not affect women, they just carry the gene. No where have I ever seen this as referenced. Hands touching hair will not degrade DNA. By the way, 44 fragments, is quite enough. Whether this is all true, who knows. That would not be alive today is certain. And, Harry's polo shirt, if you think all human beings deserve a proper burial, you are correct. Perhaps, we should start with the mass graves that were found in concentration camps and their surroundings. What I am saying, is that it would be lovely if we could afford all the dead their proper burial, unfortunately, we can't. That is the very sad part of life.
  #146  
Old 01-25-2008, 04:16 AM
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I believe the scientists would not have made the announcement, unless they were pretty sure the fragments indeed belonged to Alexei & Maria.
Also, it come as a suprise to me that it Maria was the missing child (from the rest of the Family), not Anastasia: it was long argued among the scientist which sister was missing and mor then half supported the idea that the bones found belonged to the younger daughter (Anastiasia). The legend of Anastasia surviving comes from the many frauds like Anna Anderson.

And just think: the government oredered the death of the whole Imperial family, what were the chances any of them would survive? Surely they would have made sure all of them were death, they couldn't afford a mistake in such case. Whatever you think of them, their discipline, especially in following the orders, was quite good.

This is just my opinion though.
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  #147  
Old 01-25-2008, 08:17 PM
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Hmm. And the guns used didn't fire properly and the gun powder was of inferior quality and they had been drinking and were not nearly the blood thirsty lot as assumed (FOTR, King and Wilson). And then they left the bodies while they went upstairs to examine things with Yurovsky and, and, and. . . .
The Scientists in Russia will say all sorts of things. Surely you remember how they postured throughout the cold war when they were bankrupt. That they hid Chernoble for as long as they could.
Countess, please cite references where you say Alexis was a full-blown haemphiliac.
  #148  
Old 01-26-2008, 07:31 PM
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Here's a Russian Newspaper that Boris has published the link to. He has translated it to mean that they are now unsure that the remains are from the Imperial Family.
Boris, can you help us translate here? Thanks!
Известия.Ру: Первые выводы экспертов подтверждают: Найдены останки Алексея и Марии Романовых
  #149  
Old 01-27-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
Here's a Russian Newspaper that Boris has published the link to. He has translated it to mean that they are now unsure that the remains are from the Imperial Family.
Boris, can you help us translate here? Thanks!
Известия.Ру: Первые выводы экспертов подтверждают: Найдены останки Алексея и Марии Романовых
Russo,
The newspaper of "News" ("Izvestia"), on January, 27th.
The first conclusions of experts confirm: the remains of Alexei and Maria are found.
(in reduction, in my translation).
N.Nevolin: “Now we can tell: obtained data do not give the basis to judge, that the remains do not belong to imperial family [? - it is rather strange formulation in Russian - B.R.] . I while shall refrain from more categorical applications”. Nevolin has specified: “Present researches will differ what has taken place in 90th years. This time we shall try to investigate DNA for genetically determined disease (predetermined by a heredity. - "news"): infringements of coagulability of blood, - Nevolin speaks. - During the previous examination of such research it was not spent, for that moment it was impossible. But the science do not stand on a place. It will be one of the most important researches: Alexei suffered a hemophilia. Presumably in two months foreign scientists will start to work”.

http://www.izvestia.ru/hystory/article3112258/
  #150  
Old 01-27-2008, 06:14 PM
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My version of Mr. Nevolin's short interview

“In 1990s the forensic examination of the Imperial Family was carried by English and American specialists ... It has been decided that Russian specialists will be the first to conduct DNA analysis, whereas foreign specialists will conduct the second analysis to confirm to the findings of Russian specialists ... The DNA analysis conducted by the Russian side has not been completed yet, and, therefore, it is too early to make any final conclusions. At this phase, it can be stated that data obtained (findings) does not give us any ground to say that the remains did not belong to the Russian Imperial Family [This sentence implies that so far the findings indicate that the remains do belong to the Russian Imperial Family]. I am refraining from making more categorical statements…This time we shall try to examine DNA for genetically predetermined (or genetically inherent or built-in) diseases: blood clotting disorder or coagulation failure… The above mentioned analysis was not conducted previously as it did not exist (my interpretation of the words of Mr. Nevolin). But science is known to evolve”
[text of the article]This is one of the most important analyses as Cesarevitch Alexi had hemophilia, and Empress Alexandra Fedorovna was the carrier of the gene (my interpretation of the text)….
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  #151  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
There was no coumadin.
The DNA results of the recent find of Imperial remains will soon be completed.
As stated in the most recent Russian newspapers articles "This time we shall try to examine DNA for genetically predetermined diseases : blood clotting disorder or coagulation failure"

If these are Imperial remains, we will not have long to find out who is right, Countess;

hemophilia or coumadin.
  #152  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:26 PM
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And this is where it gets dicey. We're dealing with Russia, remember? The term "The truth will out" doesn't exist in this country. So there will be a LOT of interesting things bandied about when they get going.
  #153  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:10 PM
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The present Russians aren't in power, Putin is. I believe he's ex KGB, is he not?
This isn't ancient history, it's a mere 90 years. Hapchetsut was ancient history.
I don't believe there will be restoration, but GD Maria is hoping.
Some of the major players are still around so yes, there is reason to lie. Otherwise the Sokolov and other papers from "Minnie" et. all wouldn't be in the Hague or other private collections, they'd be in our hands, now wouldn't they?
It's a grand mystery. A very grand one and I'm enjoying it.
  #154  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:11 PM
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Yes Russophile I agree with you. I suspect in Russia "The truth won't out"

It seems to me that the way Russia deals with things is, Why keep them simple when we can make them complicated, preferably very very complicated.

And yes Putin is ex-KGB, he is the ex-head of KGB.
  #155  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:22 PM
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Putin or not, what difference does it make to them whose bones those are? Actually, it would have been better to say they were not and toss them. Now, those that are inclined have a "shrine" to worish at, so to speak. Yes, Putin is ex-KGB, but he is not doing the testing. I* can't see what he or Russia satnd to gain by falisfying the test to determine whose bones they are.
  #156  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:25 PM
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Putin or not, what difference does it make to them whose bones those are? Actually, it would have been better to say they were not and toss them. Now, those that are inclined have a "shrine" to worish at, so to speak. Yes, Putin is ex-KGB, but he is not doing the testing. I* can't see what he or Russia satnd to gain by falisfying the test to determine whose bones they are.
Why indeed! And that, Countess, is the 64,000 question!
Boris, thanks for your help!
  #157  
Old 01-30-2008, 12:51 AM
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I don't care what Russia thinks about the bones. I am a history buff, so I care about whose bones they are. If they are not then I hope a family somewere gets some closer and can bury thier family.
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  #158  
Old 01-30-2008, 04:33 PM
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Dr. Michael Baden is now talking about the last 2 bodies on live television on the CourtTV network on Star Jones's show. He says the 2 most recently found bodies were burned with gasoline and didn't decompose like those dissolved in acid because gasoline only gets to half the temperature needed for cremation. He explained the link of maternal mitochrondial DNA via Prince Philip role in determining the identities of the remains.
  #159  
Old 01-30-2008, 06:02 PM
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That sounds plausible and good.

There is not close family. They are all distant cousins, who are alive today.
  #160  
Old 01-30-2008, 06:27 PM
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Why are you so sure there is not closer family alive today.
The debate is a long way from closed.

Just put yourself in the position of any close family members that are alive today, I'm thinking maybe grandsons and granddaughters, how do you think they feel about the bones?
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