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  #21  
Old 10-20-2005, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
The Russian scientists think that the missing body is Maria's and not Anastasia's
Well, that could be true if they were around the same size.
I haven't really looked at their respective heights in photos.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2005, 11:18 AM
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I saw in a documentary that they compared the heads they found with photos by a computer. And they came to the result that Anastasia is missing.
But they also said in the documentary that the western countries still think that it's Maria who's missing.
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  #23  
Old 10-20-2005, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
I saw in a documentary that they compared the heads they found with photos by a computer. And they came to the result that Anastasia is missing.
But they also said in the documentary that the western countries still think that it's Maria who's missing.
One of the leading Russian forensic experts who examined the Romanov remains was delivering a lecture to us medical students several years ago, and he touched the subject of the Romanov family. He told us that he and his colleagues had been quite sure that it is Maria who is missing.
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  #24  
Old 10-20-2005, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
I saw in a documentary that they compared the heads they found with photos by a computer. And they came to the result that Anastasia is missing.
But they also said in the documentary that the western countries still think that it's Maria who's missing.
Personally, I would believe scientists over theories from the west.
I always thought that it was Anastasia missing, and that's what fueled the rumors.
But, I've only seen European documentaries on the subject, not any from the west, so I probably got more accurate information.
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  #25  
Old 10-20-2005, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla1971
Personally, I would believe scientists over theories from the west.
I always thought that it was Anastasia missing, and that's what fueled the rumors.
But, I've only seen European documentaries on the subject, not any from the west, so I probably got more accurate information.
But you have to think about the fact that the scientists from the East had the bodies and the ones from the west, didn't they?
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2005, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
But you have to think about the fact that the scientists from the East had the bodies and the ones from the west, didn't they?
Well, I don't know what country had the bodies, or what the nationality of the scientist's were.
But, on a slightly different subject, when DNA tests were carried out on Anna Anderson, it was found that her DNA did not match that of Prince Phillip, who is related to the late Empress Alexandra through his mother (I think).
There is a positive, and negative aspect to these DNA tests.

1) There is a certain kind of DNA that is carried by a mother, and is passed on to her children, and this process is continued through each generation, so if Anna really was Anastasia, she would have carried the DNA of the Empress, which Anna didn't.

2), Anna Anderson died in 1984, she was cremated, but a part of her DNA was taken before her death, (and this was the DNA that was tested), so tests would still be accurate.

There is also another angle, which you may know more about than me, the person who Anna Anderson was thought to be - Franziska, had a maternal grandnepthew in Germany who agreed to have his DNA tested.
Because, (if Anna was Franziska, she would be related to this grandnepthew), and they both would have descended from the same great-grandmother, so tests between their DNA would also have been accurate.

Have you heard of this subject, and/or do you know what the DNA results were?

There is also an interesting website, that compares facial structures of the two women:
http://www.peterkurth.com/ANNA-ANAST...HANZKOWSKA.htm
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2005, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
But you have to think about the fact that the scientists from the East had the bodies and the ones from the west, didn't they?
If I read Mapple's post correctly he is saying that the Russian expert was sure Maria was missing, which is what the "Western" scientists say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
One of the leading Russian forensic experts who examined the Romanov remains was delivering a lecture to us medical students several years ago... He told us that he and his colleagues had been quite sure that it is Maria who is missing.
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
If I read Mapple's post correctly he is saying that the Russian expert was sure Maria was missing, which is what the "Western" scientists say.
So they were Russia scientists that did the tests? Of course, because it is their country.
Well, I don't know what to believe about this, everyone has a different opinion with some kind of evidence to back it up (even if the evidence is weak),
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
If I read Mapple's post correctly he is saying that the Russian expert was sure Maria was missing, which is what the "Western" scientists say.
Quite so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla1971
So they were Russia scientists that did the tests? Of course, because it is their country.
...
Yes, it were Russian scientists, although they received some help from their foreign colleagues in the field of forensic science.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
Quite so.


Yes, it were Russian scientists, although they received some help from their foreign colleagues in the field of forensic science.
Thanks for informing us of this Mapple, I had no idea where the scientists were from.:)
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  #31  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
If I read Mapple's post correctly he is saying that the Russian expert was sure Maria was missing, which is what the "Western" scientists say.
I thought the western scientist say that it's Anastasia
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
I thought the western scientist say that it's Anastasia
I remember reading part of an American book that said it was the remains of Aleksey, and Maria that were missing. But, apart from that, I've only heard of it being Anastasia and Aleksey that were missing.
Still confused!
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  #33  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
I thought the western scientist say that it's Anastasia
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamontague
But they also said in the documentary that the western countries still think that it's Maria who's missing.

.
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2005, 02:49 PM
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The book also stated (it's truth hasn't been decided upon) that the Tsar, and his family could not have been murdered in Ipatiev House, at least not in the cellar.
The cellar alledgedly measured about 17 feet by 14 feet, so how could the 23 people who were alledgedly put into this room have fit in, and been shot.

But, the thing I dispute is that there were 23 people, I didn't think that many were held at Ipatiev House, even including the minimal staff the Imperial Family had with them.
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  #35  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla1971
I remember reading part of an American book that said it was the remains of Aleksey, and Maria that were missing. But, apart from that, I've only heard of it being Anastasia and Aleksey that were missing.
Still confused!
The Russian commission of scientists after five years of research decided that the remains that had been found near Ekaterinburg were indeed the bones of the Imperial family, and that the remains of Alexei and Maria were missing. In 1998, the Imperial family was interred in the Cathedral of St. Peter and St. Paul in St. Petersburg. The inscription on the gravestone reads 'Anastasia'. Presently no one in Russia, except the extremists among the Russian Orthodox clergy, disputes the findings of the commission.
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
The Russian commission of scientists after five years of research decided that the remains that had been found near Ekaterinburg were indeed the bones of the Imperial family, and that the remains of Alexei and Maria were missing. In 1998, the Imperial family was interred in the Cathedral of St. Peter and St. Paul in St. Petersburg. The inscription on the gravestone reads 'Anastasia'. Presently no one in Russia, except the extremists among the Russian Orthodox clergy, disputes the findings of the commission.
How do you know the commission didn't have a reason to lie about the findings?
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla1971
How do you know the commission didn't have a reason to lie about the findings?
What reason? No one in 1998 Russia cared whether it were the bones of Maria or Anastasia that were missing.
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  #38  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
What reason? No one in 1998 Russia cared whether it were the bones of Maria or Anastasia that were missing.
I meant that the commission could have had reasons to keep secrets.
Not about whose bones were found, or not found, but that it was the Imperial Family that was found.
Secrets could have been kept because the Russian government was still unstable in 1998,( even if it isn't public) and if facts were uncovered that weren't flattering to even the then-current government, it may have undermined them further, and destablized them further, which they wouldn't have wanted.
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  #39  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla1971
I meant that the commission could have had reasons to keep secrets, because the Russian government was still unstable in 1998,( even if it isn't public) and if facts were uncovered that weren't flattering to even the then-current government, it may have undermined them further, and destablized them further, which they wouldn't have wanted.
What facts? I fail to see how the news of missing Anastasia, and not of missing Maria, would have undermined the position of Yeltsin in 1998--and I lived in Russia then... and I'm still living there now.:)
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  #40  
Old 10-21-2005, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapple
What facts? I fail to see how the news of missing Anastasia, and not of missing Maria, would have undermined the position of Yeltsin in 1998--and I lived in Russia then... and I'm still living there now.:)
I probably adjusted my post when you were replying, but I meant that if it wasn't the Imperial Family that was found at all, it could have changed the position of the Russian government.
I have been to Russia several times, and the people I have met don't exactly hate the idea of a monarchy, if it would be more democractic, and secure than the Imperial monarchy, and the current government.
It could have undermined the government, because people may have thought they may have had another option in direct, and more modern Imperial descendants.
I respect your point of view because you're Russian, and of course, as someone that lives in Russia, you know more than me, a person who only visits your country.
All I'm saying is that there are conspiracy theories, that's all.
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