Grand Duke Serge (1857-1905) & Elisaveta Feodorovna, Grand Duchess Serge (1864-1918)

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

Ella's marriage to Sergei turned out happily enough, it seems,

Though I wonder about that, what with the letters she used to write to "Greek Nicky". (Per Christopher Warwick's book.)

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Though I wonder about that, what with the letters she used to write to "Greek Nicky". (Per Christopher Warwick's book.)

You''re right with having second thoughts...

Ella and Serge basically had a mutual understanding to live like "" brother and sister"" ...not quite a full blown marriage.
Their common denominator was their love for the children (not theirs ofcourse,they never had children of their own-),
Sandro and Irina,they raised.

Serge was ``a bit`` of a perverted act,and generally disliked,if not hated,for his cruelness as a governor.
Hence why he was blown into smitherines by a bomb.

[Grace Angel]

It was Marie P they raised, not Irina. Actually, Marie P, Ella's step daughter accused Ella of being not very nice towards her sometimes- that's in her memoirs. She never accused Sergei of that. I don't know if Marie P's perceptions of perhaps a lack of maternal feeling on Ella's part were true. As for Sergei and Ella's marriage, it's a bit of mystery. I have the Warwick book though not in front of me at the moment.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

It was Marie P they raised, not Irina. Actually, Marie P, Ella's step daughter accused Ella of being not very nice towards her sometimes- that's in her memoirs. She never accused Sergei of that. I don't know if Marie P's perceptions of perhaps a lack of maternal feeling on Ella's part were true. As for Sergei and Ella's marriage, it's a bit of mystery. I have the Warwick book though not in front of me at the moment.

The Warwick book also explains that though Marie complained about beinf forced into marriage with the Prince of Sweeden (the 2nd son) the letters they sent to each other professed their love of each other.
Lucien, it was never proved that their marriage was never consumated, so we will never know--unfortunatley. Curiosity will kill me one day, I'd really like to know, just to know. I think Serge was a man who loved beautiful things and loved to collect them. Ella was the prize in his collection.

[Royal Fan]

Sergei seems cruel and well "sick"

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Royal Fan

Sergei seems cruel and well "sick"

And some, like Dmitry Pavolovich and his sister called him exceedingly kind.
He was a bit of a mystery. Somebody ought to write a bio. on him!

[Grace Angel]

I think there is supposed to be a Sergei bio, but it has met with many delays in being published, I read this on another site, they said on the bookselling website for the book it would be published in Dec 2008, then Jan 2009, etc you get the drift. I'm not sure if it has been published yet, the last I heard ( just checked) it hasn't, as of now, it first appeared as a book not yet published on a website in Oct 2008). It's in English ( I thought it was in Russian at first, then I read more carefully what language it was in) anyway, and it's in the online catalog of the the Van Hoogstraten (?) or something like that booksellers in Europe- I have a link.I agree with the interpretation that Sergei liked to collect things and Ella was one of them- you can see the possessive body language of Sergei towards Ella in a few photos.

[queenofthelight]

Top Russian law office rehabilitates the saint Great Duchess Yelizaveta Fyodorovna Romanova

Interfax-Religion

[Marsel]

One good news after another; first they rehabilitated Grand Duke Mikhail and now the Grand Duchess Yelizaveta Fyodorovna.
I am really glad my country is taking steps to recognizing that those poor people were victims of a brutal regime.

[Alberto2244]

Grand Duchess Elizabeth’s relics to visit all Russian parishes in Britain


London, June 29, Interfax - Particle of the relics of the righteous martyr Grand Duchess Elizabeth and Barbara arrived from Jerusalem to the London Cathedral of the Dormition on Saturday, 27 June.

Full article here:
Interfax-Religion

[AnastasiaEvidence]

I guess we'll never really know enough about Sergei.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

I guess we'll never really know enough about Sergei.

Unless there's a hidden diary or something out there. . .which is highly unlikely. . .

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Unless there's a hidden diary or something out there. . .which is highly unlikely. . .

It might be possible. Olga and Tatiana had lost diaries and a lot of their volumes have been found and published in Sisters of Mercy (a Russian book). If Grand Duchess Ella's diary was found I'm sure we would learn a lot more about Sergei. She might have burnt her diary. I know that OTMA burnt some of their diaries but some survived and now are published...

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

As for Sergei and Ella's marriage, it's a bit of mystery.

For what it's worth, here's a small part of the lengthy Wiki entry on Grand Duke Serge...

A great deal of controversy around Sergei Alexandrovich has centered on the nature of his personal life. Guesses about the perhaps unhappy nature of the relationship with his wife have abounded. Sergei's marriage is barely documented. His private papers, including his correspondence with his wife, have not survived, and the evidence that does exist in the Moscow State archives, the most important repository of Romanov papers, is open to interpretation. According to some contemporary reports, Sergei was homosexual. His sexuality conflicted with his intense religious beliefs and the expectations of his position. Contrary to this belief, the marriage was happy, in its own way. Unusual for royal couples, they slept in the same bed for all of their married life. Forced to defend Sergei against rumors of discord, Elisaveta Feodorovna was devoted to her husband and treasured his memory after his death.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Warren

For what it's worth, here's a small part of the lengthy Wiki entry on Grand Duke Serge...

A great deal of controversy around Sergei Alexandrovich has centered on the nature of his personal life. Guesses about the perhaps unhappy nature of the relationship with his wife have abounded. Sergei's marriage is barely documented. His private papers, including his correspondence with his wife, have not survived, and the evidence that does exist in the Moscow State archives, the most important repository of Romanov papers, is open to interpretation. According to some contemporary reports, Sergei was homosexual. His sexuality conflicted with his intense religious beliefs and the expectations of his position. Contrary to this belief, the marriage was happy, in its own way. Unusual for royal couples, they slept in the same bed for all of their married life. Forced to defend Sergei against rumors of discord, Elisaveta Feodorovna was devoted to her husband and treasured his memory after his death.

Indeed! Warwick's book confirms this. And you don't have to have children to have a happy marriage. I really believe that they truely loved each other in their way and had a very happy marriage. Unconventional, but very happy for them.

[Grace Angel]

I agree Russo. As for Sergei, it seems he destroyed all of the diaries of his later years. Some from earlier years survive, but like typical Royal diaries of the time aren't very informative. They have been published in Russian.

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Some volumes of Sergei's diaries have been pubished. But, it's all in Russian. I think Sergei only wrote about what happened daily in his life. I don't think he wrote about personal feelings and thoughts into the diaries. I don't know. Maybe if this was translated in English we could know even more information about Sergei's young life.
OZON.ru - Êíèãè | Âåëèêèé Êíÿçü Ñåðãåé Àëåêñàíäðîâè÷ Ðîìàíîâ. Êíèãà 1. 1857-1877 | Êóïèòü êíèãè: èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí / ISBN 5-87389-036-6, 5-87389-035-8
http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/3827530/

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Some volumes of Sergei's diaries have been pubished. But, it's all in Russian. I think Sergei only wrote about what happened daily in his life. I don't think he wrote about personal feelings and thoughts into the diaries. I don't know. Maybe if this was translated in English we could know even more information about Sergei's young life.
OZON.ru - Êíèãè | Âåëèêèé Êíÿçü Ñåðãåé Àëåêñàíäðîâè÷ Ðîìàíîâ. Êíèãà 1. 1857-1877 | Êóïèòü êíèãè: èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí / ISBN 5-87389-036-6, 5-87389-035-8
OZON.ru - Êíèãè | Âåëèêèé Êíÿçü Ñåðãåé Àëåêñàíäðîâè÷ Ðîìàíîâ. Áèîãðàôè÷åñêèå ìàòåðèàëû. Êíèãà 2. 1877-1880 | Êóïèòü êíèãè: èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí / ISBN 978-5-87389-041-5, 5-87389-035-8

And that's what Nicky did as well. Seems to be a bit of a habit for the family, except KR.

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Empress Alexandra's 1918 diary was also like that too. All she wrote about was what she did during her daily life. Her diary does give good details about how the Imperial family lived their lives during their last months.Same thing with Olga Nicholaievna- her diary was also like that too. She would only write about the activities, places, and people she saw during the day.She would also usually talk about Alix's heart trouble and pains.

I think that Sergei's diaries were written like that too.

[Grace Angel]

If Ella's diaries had survived, it would likely be the same story, in my opinion. KR's diary was very rare among royals at that time. Yes, at least in Sergei's surviving diaries, there isn't much personal thought or feeling, although since I don't read Russian, I have only read what other people have said about them.