Grand Duke Georgi, son and heir of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna (2008-Oct. 2021)

[COUNTESS]

I say, Countess, don’t you get bored writing negative comments about Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son? I’ve just done a quick search and you have posted over 360 times in the Russian Imperial Family thread. I cannot claim to have read each message, but every one I have looked at oozes disapproval. I don’t think I could stay motivated to write variations on the same theme, year after year, on a topic that so clearly makes me grumpy. If, as you say, it is nearly 100 years since a Romanov mattered, how do you maintain the rage? Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying you should pull your head in. I’m just puzzled by such a commitment to cranky comments.

Just frank observations. If you have read most of my comments about Georgi, I have called him sweet, kind and loving. I, really, do not know this for a fact, but he seems to be just that. I was a Russian History major, I am quite well aware of the lives and reigns of the Romanovs, some good, mostly bad for Russians, Autocracy in itself is an anachronism today, but it was back in the 1900's, too. Queen Victoria, disliked the Russian form of government and many of them,, themselves. She saw them as decadent, self serving and overindulgent. But, I digress. I have nothing against Georgi and his mother. They are playing the part they feel they need to, but it will lead to no where. He is a young man and can have a happy future with a nice young lady and not have to live in a past, he, really has never been part of. Maria, has nothing else and I hate to see her manipulate this kind young man.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

I have nothing against Georgi and his mother.

I realised this morning that I should not have said you make negative comments about Georgi Mikhailovich, as quite clearly you have not. But, come now Countess, it is a bit naughty of you claim that you do not have anything against Maria Vladimirovna. You acknowledge that you do not know for a fact that Georgi Mikhailovich is a nice, loving young man. Yet when it comes to his mother you claim she manipulates him. But where is the evidence for this accusation? Has the young man himself complained to you about his domineering mother? I can see it now:

“Countess, you don’t know how unbearable she is. Even when she’s making blini for supper she goes on about how the perfect MARRIAGE of flavours can only come from using ingredients of EQUAL high quality. You’d be amazed at how many times in one day she can slip into a normal conversation comments like: BREAK A MOTHER’S HEART, HOURS OF PAINFUL LABOUR, TEARS OF BITTER DISAPOINTMENT OF THE HOLY PASSION BEARERS, GRANDFATHER SPINNING IN HIS TOMB etc. etc. As for the word MORGANATIC, well, little surprise there that it is usually followed by something like DEAD TO ME FOR EVER. It really is very tiresome.”​

Maybe, just maybe, Georgi Mikhailovich wants to support his mother. Odder things have happened. Maybe, just maybe, Maria Vladimirovna is a kind, loving mother who will do anything for her son, even change the 200-year-old succession laws. Will it all lead to nowhere? Well it depends, I suppose, on your definition of “nowhere”. Restoration? Not likely. A full life of cultural, religious and charitable engagements; busy official visits to countries and communities all over the world; and regular royal get togethers. That’s a pretty big, bulging diary of “nothing” to my way of thinking.

So go on, Countess, admit it. Your antipathy towards Maria Vladimirovna is quite irrational. She gives you the irrits, and provokes you to make grouchy unfounded generalisations about her. I can quite see the temptation to do so. It’s a bit like picking an old scab; sometimes you just can’t help yourself.

 

[COUNTESS]

Actually, I find her an anachronism. And you are right, I watch the photos of mother and son and he looks to me, as I said I don't know, but quite loving to his mother. She is in charge. And if you hear the same stuff, long enough you follow suit. I think (again supposition) he would not hurt her for the world and will follow her lead for his life. He is not "a looker", but I think he is sweet (again supposition) and finding him the proper wife is nonsense. He just deserves a wife that he loves and loves him and she has prepared him for a throne that does not exist and probably will never exist.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well I see no difference between Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son Georgy when I look to (then) Queen Beatrix and her son Willem-Alexander. Both couples showed a strong, self-assured, determined and dominating mother with a loyal, devoted and obeying son on the second plan.

As Prince Willem-Alexander started to marry, grow a family and mature towards his fifties, the relationship between mother and son became more in balance, also probably because the mother saw that "her product" began to mould into the desired shape.

I think this is the same with Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna. When Georgy marries, forms a family and advance into his fifties like Willem-Alexander, automatically the balance in the relationship between mother-and-son will change.

 

[COUNTESS]

Well I see no difference between Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son Georgy when I look to (then) Queen Beatrix and her son Willem-Alexander. Both couples showed a strong, self-assured, determined and dominating mother with a loyal, devoted and obeying son on the second plan.

As Prince Willem-Alexander started to marry, grow a family and mature towards his fifties, the relationship between mother and son became more in balance, also probably because the mother saw that "her product" began to mould into the desired shape.

I think this is the same with Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna. When Georgy marries, forms a family and advance into his fifties like Willem-Alexander, automatically the balance in the relationship between mother-and-son will change.

You don't see the difference? Beatrix, to me she still has the title of queen, but I know better, accepted a woman, who was of ordinary lineage, there was no talk of equal marriage. Willem-Alexander married whom he loved. And they make a great couple. Also, there was a real throne to inherit. Not a figment of imagination a hundred years old. Beatrix accepted her daughter-in-law Mabel, even though there would be a problem and wise she was. Friso and Mabel married without any hooha. He just removed himself from being in line for a real throne.

 

[Lee-Z]

You don't see the difference? Beatrix, to me she still has the title of queen, but I know better, accepted a woman, who was of ordinary lineage, there was no talk of equal marriage. Willem-Alexander married whom he loved. And they make a great couple. Also, there was a real throne to inherit. Not a figment of imagination a hundred years old. Beatrix accepted her daughter-in-law Mabel, even though there would be a problem and wise she was. Friso and Mabel married without any hooha. He just removed himself from being in line for a real throne.

Your view of the acceptance of Beatrix of her daughters in law is not quite the way it is seen in the Netherlands, but as this is a forum for the Romanov family i won't expand on that.

But why do you even visit this Romanov forum if you consider their royal status "imaginary"?

 

[COUNTESS]

I like to see what they imagine. I , also, am fond (for no reason at all) of Georgi and I look to see if he will be allowed to have a nice, normal life or live some fantasy without substance that was his mother's wish. I, also, am interested in how the other pretenders will react to any marriage contracted by him. It is interesting.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Sorry Countess, but I’m not convinced. I think you must enjoy stirring up trouble by sticking the boot into Maria Vladimirovna whenever the opportunity arises. Why else would you do it so often? Even in this latest comment you couldn't resist the temptation to have yet another go at her “fantasy” life. Your opinions, never followed up with a shred of evidence, have been refuted by many posters, time and again, with plenty of examples of the real and busy life led by the Grand Duchess. But, no, let’s go and on about this awful mother, who fills the empty hours of her pathetic life by harassing her son and dreaming impossible dreams. Let’s put a dampener on any conversation involving Maria Vladimirovna. Let’s snuff out everybody else’s enjoyment in discussing this colourful Grand Duchess.

Of course there is nothing wrong with expressing a contrary opinion. But to do so dozens of times does appear, to my way of thinking, a tad excessive. What motivates such an irrational need to always make a negative comment about someone? Why do we find some people, whom we have never even met, so insufferably annoying for no apparent reason? Most of us will experience this unreasonable irritation. There are a couple of interesting theories that might explain this unattractive habit:

• Someone who really annoys us might do so because we subconsciously recognize in them something we dislike about ourselves.

• Someone who really annoys us might do so because subconsciously we are envious of some aspect of their life, or something that they represent.

Is it any wonder there is so little activity on the Russian threads? What is the point of joining in when any enthusiasm is chipped away at by the endless snide comments? Very disappointing I must say.

 

[AristoCat]

Just frank observations. If you have read most of my comments about Georgi, I have called him sweet, kind and loving. I, really, do not know this for a fact, but he seems to be just that. I was a Russian History major, I am quite well aware of the lives and reigns of the Romanovs, some good, mostly bad for Russians, Autocracy in itself is an anachronism today, but it was back in the 1900's, too. Queen Victoria, disliked the Russian form of government and many of them,, themselves. She saw them as decadent, self serving and overindulgent. But, I digress. I have nothing against Georgi and his mother. They are playing the part they feel they need to, but it will lead to no where. He is a young man and can have a happy future with a nice young lady and not have to live in a past, he, really has never been part of. Maria, has nothing else and I hate to see her manipulate this kind young man.

He's no fool; he knows that his mother is defending something that he is himself ambitious for and I am certain that he will not just step aside and relinquish something he was born and bred for. He obviously has a preference for the Russian portion of his heritage and I am certain that he's going to go for a 'good' match to keep his claim going and give him what advantage that he can.

He's never shied away from promoting himself or being part of the promotion for Headship. So he's not just some naive young Mama's Boy.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Grand Duke Georgi Mikhailovich has certainly made comments that suggest he fully accepts his heritage. I've just been reading this interview he gave last year. Despite the at times stilted Google translation, his commitment to his country, his mother, and the ideals of Orthodox Monarchism are quite clear. He strikes me as a 33 year old man who seems to know his own mind, not at all a poor young boy under the thumb of his mother.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

You don't see the difference? Beatrix, to me she still has the title of queen, but I know better, accepted a woman, who was of ordinary lineage, there was no talk of equal marriage. Willem-Alexander married whom he loved. And they make a great couple. Also, there was a real throne to inherit. Not a figment of imagination a hundred years old. Beatrix accepted her daughter-in-law Mabel, even though there would be a problem and wise she was. Friso and Mabel married without any hooha. He just removed himself from being in line for a real throne.

The then Queen Beatrix was not that easy with the "acceptance" of Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti. Before that she blocked the earlier relationship of her son with Miss Emily Bremers. In the book "Aan het Hof" (At the Court) by the journalists Hoedeman and Meijer was written that the Queen wanted her eldest son to marry someone "from a family with a certain standing in society" and preferrably not from the Netherlands. For the Queen it was "undesirable" and damaging for the -in her eyes- "necessary distance" between people and monarchy when a future Queen would simply come just around the corner, with former classmates, roommates, ex-colleagues, ex-partners, friends, family, etc. living here.

Whether Máxima comes "from a family with standing in society" is open for discussion. Many believe that Queen Beatrix was more thinking about somewone with an aristocrat background, but Máxima is at least foreign, from the other side of the world even.

Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is in more narrow shoes than (then) Queen Beatrix because her son faces the demand for an appropriate bride from a royal or former royal background. This obligation has never existed in the Netherlands. Of course for centuries members of the House Orange-Nassau have tried to maintain a shrewd marriage policy but never is written that a partner has to be royal or noble at all. So it was easier for Beatrix to relax when Willem-Alexander came home with Máxima than for Maria Vladimirovna because her whole pretension also stands on the claim that the other branches of the Romanov dynasty have made themselves ineligible for the succession of the headship since they all violated the requirements for a "befitting" partner.

 

[COUNTESS]

Sorry Countess, but I’m not convinced. I think you must enjoy stirring up trouble by sticking the boot into Maria Vladimirovna whenever the opportunity arises. Why else would you do it so often? Even in this latest comment you couldn't resist the temptation to have yet another go at her “fantasy” life. Your opinions, never followed up with a shred of evidence, have been refuted by many posters, time and again, with plenty of examples of the real and busy life led by the Grand Duchess. But, no, let’s go and on about this awful mother, who fills the empty hours of her pathetic life by harassing her son and dreaming impossible dreams. Let’s put a dampener on any conversation involving Maria Vladimirovna. Let’s snuff out everybody else’s enjoyment in discussing this colourful Grand Duchess.

Of course there is nothing wrong with expressing a contrary opinion. But to do so dozens of times does appear, to my way of thinking, a tad excessive. What motivates such an irrational need to always make a negative comment about someone? Why do we find some people, whom we have never even met, so insufferably annoying for no apparent reason? Most of us will experience this unreasonable irritation. There are a couple of interesting theories that might explain this unattractive habit:

• Someone who really annoys us might do so because we subconsciously recognize in them something we dislike about ourselves.

• Someone who really annoys us might do so because subconsciously we are envious of some aspect of their life, or something that they represent.

Is it any wonder there is so little activity on the Russian threads? What is the point of joining in when any enthusiasm is chipped away at by the endless snide comments? Very disappointing I must say.

First of all, there is nothing about Maria I envy. She has led a life predestined for her by thoughts, but not reality. I have had a wonderful, fulfilled life with a great family. and I thank God for that. She is fortunate to have, what I consider, wonderful son, I could be wrong. I do not know if she harasses him, but I am sure that his whole life he has been told of the position he must guarantee for the dream. I have been in Russia and was a Russian History Major a thousand years ago. It is irrational to me that people speak about "equal status" for marriage for a man who works in a company and is a pretender to a throne that has been extinct for almost 100 years. In a time where all Monarchs in European Nations are Constitutional and have long forsaken this "equal marriage" nonsense. There is little activity on these threads, because most find this amusing or ridiculous. I do not dislike Maria, I think she was raised to do, exactly what she is doing. For that I commend her. But as she and her child are far removed from even being born in Russia, there comes a time where you can accept you gilded heritage, as I recognize that. Her great great grandfather was a Tsar. Very impressive. Alexander II was a man before his times. He married his second wife, who was not equal and caused a hoo ha ha. Her pedigree is impeccable, and it is good to instill their heritage, but this other nonsense is just that.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

There are none so blind as those who will not see

You know Countess, when I first joined the Royal Forums I thought you were quite amusing with your complaining tone and obvious loathing of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna of Russia (deny it all you like, but your disdain is clear for anyone to see in any of your dozens of posts about her). Actually, your fixation reminded me of someone with their own mother issues, and I had several hearty laughs at the predictability of your comments.

But, you know, after a few months your obsession has become incredibly old, sour and boring. Surprising as it may seem, you are not the Oracle of Truth on Russia, even if you have been there and took a degree in Russian history (just like me, but so what? It is neither here nor there). I even have a sneaking suspicion that you might be a contributing factor to the lack of participation in the Imperial House of Russia forum. After all, it is not pleasant to have your posts shot down in flames as nonsense by someone so negative that you can only ask “why post here if it is all such rubbish?” It’s no wonder some people eschew a return visit.

It is also clear to me now that there is no point in responding to anything you say. You are a broken record, incapable of contributing to a rational discussion. You are a misery guts who will not let anyone enjoy a discussion about Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna in peace. In fact, when it comes to anything to do with the current Imperial House of Russia, you are little more than a troll. So, like all trolls, you should be ignored.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Here’s an interview with Grand Duke George Mikhailavich of Russia from earlier this year. In it he talks about his grandfather:

My grandfather, Grand Duke Vladimir, had an enormous influence on my development and education. He was interested in technology, history, economics, theology, and literature; and he traveled a great deal during his lifetime. My grandfather was always able to find a common language with anyone he met: with heads of states and with waiters and janitors, with the elderly and with children, with those on the political right and those on the left. He treated everyone he met with respect. He died when I was only 11 years old, but that was old enough for me to understand and remember many of the things he said and did.​

They seem to have been very close. I remember the photos of the Grand Duke's 1992 funeral in Point de Vue showed how upset he was.

The Imperial Family in 1991

Funeral of Grand Duke Vladimir 1992: http://i60.tinypic.com/30c0ub8.jpg

Mother and son: http://i59.tinypic.com/2v29v8w.jpg

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Thanks for the link to the obituary of the late Grand Duchess Vladimir born Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhranskaya. What an eventful life she and her spouse had. Since I have seen and heard Grand Duke Georgy speaking on television, in impeccable English, my esteem has grown. Until then I only knew him as a chubby dude next to his dominant mom. In the interview he appeared as an intelligent and well-formulating gentleman.

A few years ago I saw a French documentary, I don't remember the title, and it showed Grand Duchess Vladimir, Grand Duchess Maria and a young Grand Duke Georgy in St. Briac and Madrid. Already then it did struck me how formidable and dominating the two ladies Leonida and Maria were and how Georgy had to grow up to fulfill all their expectations. I felt some sorry for the young lad, back then. I am happy he has grown into a -so to see- firm, stable and serious gentleman.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Who is this man?

I was looking for a particular picture of Grand Duke Georgi Mikhailovich, which I eventually found, but while searching I spotted this chap. Is there a faux Grand Duke trying his luck in Sweden, complete with a faux Rebecca Bettarini?

Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia arrives for the Bernadotte Art Awards 2014 at the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, 02 June 2014.

Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia and Rebecca Battarini arrive for the Bernadotte Art Awards 2014 at the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, 02 June 2014.

 

[MAfan]

Not necessarily there is a faux Grand Duke Georgi; it's also quite possible that simply the captions of the pictures are wrong, as it often happens.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The captions under the pic are wrong. This is not Grand Duke Georgy.

 

[Lee-Z]

Not necessarily there is a faux Grand Duke Georgi; it's also quite possible that simply the captions of the pictures are wrong, as it often happens.

Yep, caption appears to be wrong, on this page these people are named Anthony Bailey and Princess Hohenburg
Anthony Bailey Consulting | Anthony Bailey and Princess Hohenberg attend Bernadotte Art Awards in Sweden

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Not faux but still suspect

Mr Bailey may not be a faux Grand Duke Georgi, but I suspect he might still be trying his luck in Sweden. I thought he looked familiar, and the name Anthony Bailey, for some reason, rang a warning bell. It turns out he has a long history of dodgy claims, shady deals, and a penchant for royalty. Years ago I knew a Dominican priest who worked part time at the Papal Nunciature in Canberra. The Nuncio once received a letter from the Infant Don Carlos of Spain, Head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies, that warned of the activities of, what he considered, the faux Constantinian Order of St George. It was accompanied by a detailed book. Fr D, knowing of my interest in royalty, gave me the book (the Nuncio felt he could live without it). It referred to the activities of a certain Mr Anthony Bailey, forged documents and Middle Eastern dictators.

Mr Bailey was also involved with the dodgy Mr John Kennedy, one time advisor to Prince Michael of Kent, and publisher of the Almanac de Gotha (I once received a condescending fax from Mr Kennedy for daring to complain about this poor quality publication). Mr Kennedy was also strongly opposed to Grand Duchess Maria of Russia (in his fax, he explained why Georgi Mikhailovich is only a Prince of Prussia by going into great detail why Mr Peter Philips is not a Prince of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Mr Bailey also had ties with Mr Edwin de Roy of Zuydewijn (another shady character and one time husband of Princess Margarita of Bourbon-Parma). I hope Princess Maria-Theresa of Hohenberg knew what she was getting into when they married.

 

[Lee-Z]

Well, be that as it may, the fact that the caption was wrong on the pages linked in post #406 has nothing to do with himself... that was an error made by someone who filled the webpage

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Well, sorry for getting off track then. I know the caption was wrong, and someone just made a mistake. But I like the word "faux" so I used it in my original post. I also found the connections emanating from Mr Bailey interesting (six degrees and all that). In future I'll try and restrain myself and stick to the facts, but I can't make any promises.

 

[Chubb Fuddler]

Grand Duke Georgi was in St Petersburg last week on a visit associated with the 100th anniversary of the birth of his grandmother Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna.

 

[Admiral Horthy]

Grand Duke Georgi was in St Petersburg last week on a visit associated with the 100th anniversary of the birth of his grandmother Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna.

Not to be petty but he needs to lose some weight and, at the least, a suit that fits properly. It looks like both the jacket and shirt were too small. An ill-fitting suit does not look good on a large man.

 

[Al_bina]

https://nikolaevec.livejournal.com/560219.html

The above link contains Grand Duke Georgi's interview to the "On Krestovkom" newspaper.

 

[la vie en rose]

Grand Duke Georgi has been receiving the most important order of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. He is Grand Bailli, which quite a privilege considering that only Catholic can receive an order and HIH is orthodox.
This has been explained: when the Order of Malta was chased across Europe Czar Paul gave refugee in Russia to the Knights. since then all recognized Romanoff heirs have this privilege! Congratulations and bravo to Grand Duke Georgi!
I don't know why thought this news has been kept a little private, it's hard to find official pictures and I don't see anything in the official website.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Saint John-Paul II considered the Eastern-Orthodoxes as one of the two lungs of the christianity. (The other lung of course being the Catholics). Both denominations have major differences in organization and administration but in essence both the Roman-Catholics as well the Eastern-Orthodoxes have the same Faith. Congratulations to Grand Duke Georgi.

 

[Spheno]

Grand Duke Georgi has been receiving the most important order of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. He is Grand Bailli, which quite a privilege considering that only Catholic can receive an order and HIH is orthodox.
This has been explained: when the Order of Malta was chased across Europe Czar Paul gave refugee in Russia to the Knights. since then all recognized Romanoff heirs have this privilege! Congratulations and bravo to Grand Duke Georgi!
I don't know why thought this news has been kept a little private, it's hard to find official pictures and I don't see anything in the official website.

Romanov's official site has big article about Grand Duchess and Grand Duke's visit in Rome and meeting with Grand Master including information about receiving the order.
Article

** Pic1 ** ** Pic2 **

 

[Al_bina]

Grand Duke Georgi visited the State Duma | Blogs•Spletnik.ru

 

[Spheno]

Grand Duke George visited Moscow and Kaluga, 16-22 February 2015

Article (with pics)