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  #81  
Old 10-15-2009, 01:49 PM
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I Thik any list of Possible Brides should include Lady Gabriella Windsor
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  #82  
Old 10-15-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vsriCo View Post
He must of known that GD Vladimir and Maria intended for George to continue the familys claim of headship.
He did, you are exactly right. Prince Franz Wilhelm of Prussia was already quite aware that his son would be raised as the heir to the Headship of the Imperial House.

At the time of his conversion to Orthodoxy in July 1976, Franz Wilhelm agreed to the terms set forth by Grand Duke Wladimir when he granted his consent to the marriage. One of the stipulations that Franz Wilhelm promised to fulfill was that any issue resulting from the union would bear the surname "Romanoff Grand Duke/Duchess of Russia" first with "Prince/Princess of Prussia" attached at the end.

However, when the only son was born in Spain, he was registered with the name "Jorge prinz von Preussen Romanoff."

As that was not what was agreed upon, the mother of the child, "S.A.I. Maria Romanoff Grande-duchesse de Russie," (at the behest of her parents, no doubt) petitioned in France on 26 August 1982 for her infant son's last name to be changed to "Romanoff-grand-duc de Russie prinz von Preussen." The couple was separated by this time, and a report had actually surfaced that they were indeed already divorced.

Anyways, the point is that Franz Wilhelm knew in advance what he was marrying into and what was expected.
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  #83  
Old 10-15-2009, 07:53 PM
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While it's true Vladimir and Louis-Ferdinand agreed to the terms of the marriage contract, including the conversion of Franz-Wilhelm to Orthodoxy and his relinquishing his style as Prinz von Pruessen, this was null and void with their divorce in 1982.

The marriage, while technically equal, was certainly not the usual precedent and practice of royal matrimony among the houses, since a woman always took her style and title from her husband as did any children. Maria was not a reigning monarch, which is usually the only time husbands convert to another religion and assume a style or title that grants them the status of a consort. Nor was she the heir in 1976, since there were male cousins of Vladimir who remained dynasts at the time and took precedence over Maria.

No matter what was agreed, with Vladimir's death, Maria Vladimirovna has a shaky claim, at best, as the sole remaining dynast and de-jure Tsarina. She was not born of an equal marriage and her son is without question a Hohenzollern, so it's a stretch to think otherwise.
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  #84  
Old 10-15-2009, 08:50 PM
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Maria Wladimirovna's rank is only disputed by the two elderly sons of Roman Petrovich and several descendants of Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich. Whatever our opinions may be, her title of Grand Duchess and status as Head of the Imperial House are recognized by the Russian Government, the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Royal Houses of Europe. And that isn't too shabby.
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  #85  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:36 PM
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I agree she is, without question, the Head of the Imperial House. And her rank and title as Grand Duchess is appropriate given her father's undisputed position as the Head of the House and the fact she succeeded him in 1992.

The question of whether she is truly a dynast under the Pauline Laws is entirely another matter. But the fact is Vladimir ruled his marriage was equal, which was within his perogative, and that's the end of that.
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  #86  
Old 10-16-2009, 04:43 AM
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It is always annoying when correspondents put forward a premise that they know is spurious yet sounds feasable or fits in with their argument. It is also understandable, but please allow us to consider aspects that may not sit comfortably with our personal or party view.

Grand Duke George may have been given a name that included the words prince and Prussia, but Germany abrogated nobility in 1919 and therefore it wasn't as such a title being registered, just a birth and name. There is no question that the Bagrtids are not royal.

Grand Duke Geroge's choice of bride will have nothing to do with The Grand Duchess Maria. Let us hope he is honourable and man enough (unlike the pliable Prince of Wales) in choosing to marry the woman he loves. This is surely what the Russian people would want. Make an arranged marriage for him and you will alienate the people who will decide if he will become their next emperor or not.
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  #87  
Old 10-16-2009, 07:41 AM
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There is no question that the Bagrtids are not royal.
The Bagrations are Royal. Whether or not they were royal at the time is another matter.
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  #88  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:44 PM
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I must apologise for my poor syntax. I meant to write that the Bagratid princes being formerly of a sovereign house, are indeed royal in all respects.
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  #89  
Old 11-16-2009, 06:11 PM
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When I read correspondents debating issues pertinent to this site I am sometimes convinced they live in a time warp. The world has moved on in 90 years. One of the many reasons autocrats were deposed (often by the ruling classes of their realms) was this idiosynchratic invention of equal marriage. In Christian countries organtic marriage it is anathema and the Church disapproves of such machinations.

Russia was heavily influenced by the strange rituals of the minor princely German families (who incidentally didn't have royal titles until 200 years ago mostly) and the so called house rules of equal marriage was more an economic mechanism. Perhaps like the American country club. I dare use the words: snobbery and inflated self esteem, more akin to the new capitalist merchant classes than anicent feudalism. The early Romanovs married good people with neither rank nor title, perhaps not actual peasants, but after the fall of autocracy in Russia house rules have no status. The enforcement had been by decree. As there is no reigning family then present Romanovs who stand by these, frankly ludicrous, rules have become a laughing stock.
In their jockying for family headship they have forgotten that the Russian people rejected them. If they want to regaine some self respect they have to drag themselves into reality and the 21st century.

If the GD Maria Vladimirova insists on a spurious dynastic marriage for her son she in effect becomes an embarrassment.
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  #90  
Old 11-18-2009, 10:55 AM
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If her claim that she is the only legitimate heir to the last Csars because of her parents' marriage how can she pretend to look the other way? Regardless of how we feel she must keep up appearances and make sure her son contracts an equal marriage.
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  #91  
Old 11-18-2009, 12:07 PM
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I am inclined to agree with Odette. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna tends to emphasise the fact that her parents' marriage was equal, which qualified her for a Head of the Russian Imperial House. Therefore, she has to try to arrange an equal marriage for Grand Duke Georgi.
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  #92  
Old 11-18-2009, 01:00 PM
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I am happy we agree Al Bina. Now someone has to convince the GD to accept his mother's choice of a prospective bride.
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  #93  
Old 11-18-2009, 01:31 PM
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If required, Grand Duchess is sure to find convincing arguments as to why an arrange marriage must take place. You know something along the lines "Noblesse oblige".
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  #94  
Old 11-18-2009, 01:34 PM
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LOL I am sure she has been rehearsing her arguments since he was born. Do you know if the prospective brides have to be Russian Orthodox or they must convert?
I know they have accepted German and Danish princesses in the past but wonder how close to the old customs GD Maria is adherng to.
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  #95  
Old 11-18-2009, 01:44 PM
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Any wife of Prince George (a claimant to the Headship of the Imperial Family) would have to belong or convert to Orthodox faith.

I guess Maria Vladimirovna may arrange George's marriage to an 'appropriate' candidate, just for enough time for an Heir to be born. After that... Well, divorces do happen.
And although the idea of marrying anyone for 'dynastic' reasons may seem unconceivable for many of us, I am sure there will be one or two girls from suitable background (belonging to current or former Royal House), who’d be quite willing to do so just for the sake of exposure, limelight and publicity.
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  #96  
Old 11-18-2009, 03:54 PM
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So royal princesses are just like minor media celebs: they seek the celebrity lifestyle. It isn't like that; these are mainly well educated young women with careers or sufficient funds. If it is obvious the GD of Russia marries purely for spurious dynastic reasons (as I have stated before this is archaic and dangerous in the 21st century) then one may as well say goodbye to any regard the House of Romanov may still have.
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  #97  
Old 11-18-2009, 04:16 PM
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There is ambition and thirst for fame everywhere; don’t tell me there wouldn’t be at least a couple of women from (minor and unknown) Royal Houses, who aren’t the same just because of their blue blood. Yes, most would laugh off such a prospect (as someone said earlier in this thread, marrying a Romanov is hardly marrying up these days) but there will always be one or two, who’d be willing to ‘cooperate’.

As for regard for the House of Romanov, I don’t know how much of that is left in Russia in any case, so a Royal-Royal wedding could actually be beneficial; there would be no proof that it’s a loveless match and all the pomp is bound to attract attention to Maria Vladimirovna and her son.
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  #98  
Old 11-25-2009, 04:09 PM
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It's not going to be easy to find a royal bride for Gregori. There aren't that many princesses running around that (a) are willing to convert to Orthodoxy; (b) wish to marry a disputed heir of a non-reigning House who isn't rich.
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  #99  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:07 PM
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Didn't Maria get a chunk of change from the sale of jewelry? THat might sweeten the pot. . .
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  #100  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:48 AM
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Grand Duke Georgi current events




His IMPERIAL Highness Grand Duke Georgiy Mikhaylovich came to Moscow from Brussels on 30 January 2010 in the evening. Official visit of the Heir of the Head of the Russian IMPERIAL House is dedicated to participation in celebrations of the first anniversary of enthronisation of Holy Patriarch of Moscow and All-Russia Kirill. Also Grand Duke will meet with representatives of different branches of state authorities, businessmen and social activists.

Under the information of a press-secretary
of the Moscow Department of the RIU-O


More in detail here in Russian (fоto) http://nikolaevec.livejournal.com/113791.html
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