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  #21  
Old 12-15-2008, 01:07 PM
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Yes, Maria V.'s half-sister is no longer footing the bill for Maria V. and Georgy Hohenzollern's ambitions; young Georgy needs to work these days. I agree, Al bina, it's unlikely that this work will be particularly taxing.
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2008, 01:56 PM
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Yes, Maria V.'s half-sister is no longer footing the bill for Maria V. and Georgy Hohenzollern's ambitions; young Georgy needs to work these days. I agree, Al bina, it's unlikely that this work will be particularly taxing.
Her sister was footing the bill for her (Maria's) and Georgey's aspirations?
Wow. I'd be a bit peeved myself.
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2008, 03:08 PM
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Yes; Maria V's mother was married first to Sumner Moore Kirby, and the couple had a daughter, Helen. Helen inherited her father's wealth when he was declared dead, presumably at the hands of the Nazis. His wealth derived from the Woolworth retail chain, of which he was partner, and Leonida was his third wife, married from 1933-1937. He was murdered in 1945.

This article has a bit about him:

U.S. Suit Says French Trains Took Victims To the Nazis - New York Times

He also had a daughter, Gloria, by his first wife.

Helen, Leonida & Sumner's daughter, lived with Leonida in Madrid when Leonida met and married Vladimir in 1948 (in a Greek Orthodox, not Russian Orthodox, ceremony.) Maria was born in 1953, when her mother was 39 years of age. Helen was handed the title of Countess Dvinskaya and in return, her deceased father's fortune supported Leonida Bagration, Valdimir, Maria, and later Maria's husband and son. (Woolworth has been very, very good to Ms. Kirby.) Helen never married.
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  #24  
Old 12-15-2008, 03:11 PM
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Thanks for the information! I am not too surprised to learn that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirova and her family lived off somebody, a half-sister in this case. As for the title "Countess Dvinskaya", is it recongised by other nobles?
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2008, 03:22 PM
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Yes; Maria V's mother was married first to Sumner Moore Kirby... His wealth derived from the Woolworth retail chain, of which he was partner...
I didn't know he was a partner, I thought it was all Barbara Hutton's grandfathers. Hmmm. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the info.!
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  #26  
Old 12-15-2008, 03:33 PM
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Thanks for the information! I am not too surprised to learn that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirova and her family lived off somebody, a half-sister in this case. As for the title "Countess Dvinskaya", is it recongised by other nobles?
I doubt it matters much. The title of Countess was granted to ladies-in-waiting during Imperial Russia, so it's not like Vladimir elevated her to imperial rank. It is simply a courtesy style.

Helen Kirby's fortune supported Vladimir and Leonida for many years, but is now said to be quite diminished. I'm not surprised Gregori has to work for a living as they sold their homes in Spain and France a number of years ago. Leonida still lives in her apartment in Paris, while Maria lives in an apartment in Madrid.
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  #27  
Old 12-15-2008, 05:33 PM
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No wonder Maria V. is insisting that the Russian government support her financially before she will "consent" to grace it with her permanent residency.
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  #28  
Old 10-13-2009, 10:14 AM
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Grand Duke Georgi, son and heir of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna

I became interested in this question after it was touched in another thread (and we were in real danger of going off topic yet again).

Let’s assume that Maria Vladimirovna’s claims are 100% foolproof and she’s the universally acknowledged Head of the Romanov House. In order to continue her legacy, her son will have to marry a member of a Reigning or Royal Family.

George is already 28 years old, the time of his marriage is rapidly approaching. And given the passion with which Maria Vladimirovna fights for her role as Head of the House, you can bet she’ll insist on an ‘equal’ marriage.
So I was wondering, just how many Princesses of eligible age are out there? I think we can safely exclude most, if not all, Reigning Houses, which leaves the Royal ones. Can we write a list of eligible ladies, marriage to whom would not be considered morganatic under all the Romanov marriage laws?
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  #29  
Old 10-13-2009, 10:34 AM
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I fear we have to exclude the Catholic Princesses, because Catholic Church is usually unwilling in permitting a Princess to change her religion...
Well, I can list:
Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie of York;
Lady Gabriella Windsor;
Princess Theodora of Greece;
Duchess Anastasia and Duchess Alice of Oldenburg;
Princess Johanna of Waldeck.
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  #30  
Old 10-13-2009, 10:36 AM
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Definitely Princess Theodora of Greece: she's royal to the boot, Orthodox, and the about the right age.
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  #31  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Marsel View Post
I think we can safely exclude most, if not all, Reigning Houses, which leaves the Royal ones.
sorry marsel......do you mean "non reigning houses" here ?
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  #32  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:17 AM
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Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie of York.
well i am little unsure with the adove suggestion.....wouldnt they be excluded as thier mother, sarah duchess of york was a commoner !!
just a thought buddy .....
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  #33  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:21 AM
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Well, also George's paternal grandmother was not of royal blood, but his father Franz Wilhelm was good to become the husband of Maria Wladimirovna...
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  #34  
Old 10-13-2009, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
sorry marsel......do you mean "non reigning houses" here ?
I meant that there are so few eligible members of Reigning Royal Houses that we can focus mainly on non-reigning but Royal Houses (Greek, Yugoslavian, French, etc).
I’ll post the list of all (possibly) eligible members of the reigning Royal Houses in the next post.
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  #35  
Old 10-13-2009, 12:08 PM
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Of the reigning Houses, I think we can safely exclude the following (who wouldn’t be even considered either because of religious or other aspects): Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Bhutan, Brunei, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Japan, Lesotho, Malaysia, Swaziland, Thailand, Tonga.

Prospective brides from the remaining Reigning Houses are the following (including Catholic women, because all of them, without exception, would have to convert to Orthodox religion in any case):


Belgium (including extended Royal Family)
Princess Maria Laura of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este (born 1988)

British (including extended Royal Family)
Princess Beatrice (born 1988)
Princess Eugenie (born 1990)

Zara Phillips (born 1981) *
Lady Gabriella Windsor (born 1981) *
Lady Marina-Charlotte Windsor (born 1992)*
Zenouska Mowatt (born 1990) *
Sophie Lascelles (born 1973)*
Ellen Lascelles (born 1984) *
Amy Lascelles (born 1986)*

Danish (including extended Royal Family)
Princess Nathalie of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg (born 1975) *

The Netherlands (including extended Royal Family)
Juliana Edenia Antonia Guillermo (born 1981) *
Princess Carolina, Marchioness of Sala (born 1974) *

Liechtenstein (including extended Royal Family) **
Princess Maria-Annunciata of Liechtenstein (born 1985)
Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein (born 1987)
Maria Teresa Sartorius y de Liechtenstein (born 1992) *

Luxembourg (including extended Royal Family) **
Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg (born 1991)
Princess Marie Gabriele of Nassau (born 1986)
Archduchess Gabriella Maria of Austria (born 1994)

Monaco (including extended Royal Family) **
Charlotte Casiraghi (born 1986) *
Pauline Ducruet (born 1994) *
Mélanie-Antoinette de Lusignan (born 1985) *

Norway (including extended Royal Family)
Madeleine Ferner Johansen (born 1993) *
Victoria Ragna Lorentzen Ribeiro (born 1988) *

Spain (including extended Royal Family)
No eligible candidate

Sweden (including extended Royal Family)
No eligible candidate

* Denotes those, who I am almost certain would not qualify under the Romanov marriage laws
** As members of Princely/Ducal Houses, they might not qualify as well, although as members of Reigning Houses, they might.



The only two Princesses who are definitely eligible are Princess Beatrice (born 1988) and Princess Eugenie (born 1990).

Princess Maria-Annunciata of Liechtenstein (born 1985), Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein (born 1987), Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg (born 1991), Princess Marie Gabriele of Nassau (born 1986) are all eligible if they qualify as members of Reigning Houses (although I think the Romanov marriage requirements specify members of a reigning or non-reigning []iRoyal[/i] Houses, which could disqualify them as members of Princely/Ducal Houses). Princess Nathalie of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg (born 1975) might be eligible as well.
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  #36  
Old 10-13-2009, 01:58 PM
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Well, also George's paternal grandmother was not of royal blood, but his father Franz Wilhelm was good to become the husband of Maria Wladimirovna...
well not quite, to my understanding george's paternal grandmother was none other than princess henriette of schoenaich carolatch and the step daughter of ex kaiser wilhelm II of germany to boot and not exactly a commoner and i believe that george's maternal grandmother was a princess also .......
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  #37  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Marsel View Post
Princess Maria-Annunciata of Liechtenstein (born 1985), Princess Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein (born 1987), Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg (born 1991), Princess Marie Gabriele of Nassau (born 1986) are all eligible if they qualify as members of Reigning Houses (although I think the Romanov marriage requirements specify members of a reigning or non-reigning []iRoyal[/i] Houses, which could disqualify them as members of Princely/Ducal Houses). Princess Nathalie of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg (born 1975) might be eligible as well.
I thought members of Grand Ducal houses were eligible? After all, two Tsarinas came from the Grand Ducal House of Hesse: Marie and Alix.
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  #38  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:07 PM
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From non-reigning Houses, the following women are eligible (note this may not be the complete list – I did the best I could):


Bulgaria (included extended Family)
No eligible member

Greece (including extended Royal Family but excluding Royals from other Royal Families)
Princess Theodora (born 1983)

Brazilian Imperial Family (included extended Family)
Princess Amélia of Orléans-Bragança (born 1984)
Princess Maria Gabriela of Orléans-Bragança (born 1989)

House of Savoy (included extended Family)
Viola Moreschina Arrivabene-Valenti-Gonzaga (born 1991) *
Vera Clementina Arrivabene-Valenti-Gonzaga (born 1993) *

Romania (included extended Family)
Elizabeth de Roumanie Medforth-Mills (born 1989) *
Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger (born 1986) *

Yugoslavia/Serbia (included extended Family)
Victoria Marie Esme de Silva (born 1991) *
Princess Marie of Yugoslavia (born 1993)

House of Braganza (included extended Family)
No eligible member

House of Bourbon included extended Family)
No eligible member

House of Orleans (included extended Family)
No eligible member

House of Bonaparte (included extended Family)
Sophie Catherine Bonaparte (born 1992)

House Schaumburg-Lippe
No eligible member

House of Mecklenburg (all branches)
Duchess Helene Olga of Mecklenburg (born 1988)
Thyra von Solodkoff (born 1989) *

House of Hesse (included extended Family)
Tatiana Marie Galdo (born 1992) *
Polissena Galdo (born 1993) *

Baden
No eligible member

House of Wittelsbach (Bavaria)
Princess Bernadette of Bavaria (born 1986)
Princess Maria del Pilar of Bavaria (born 1978)
Princess Maria Felipa of Bavaria (born 1981)

Grand Ducal Family of Oldenburg (excluding all members of other Royal Houses which are mentioned separately, if eligible)
Duchess Rixa Marie-Alix of Oldenburg (born 1970)

House of Thurn and Taxis
Princess Maria Theresia of Thurn and Taxis (born 1980)
Princess Elisabeth Margarethe of Thurn and Taxis (born 1982)

House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (included extended Family)
Princess Elena Sofia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (born 1973)

House of Leiningen
Princess Olga Margarita of Leiningen (born 1984)
Princess Cécilia of Leiningen (born 1988)
Princess Theresa Anna of Leiningen (born 1992)

House of Hohenzollern
Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia (born 1982)
Princess Nataly of Prussia (born 1970)
Lady Mary Luise Wellesley (born 1986) and Lady Charlotte Anne Wellesley (born 1990) as children of Princess Antonia of Prussia (Marchioness of Douro) *
Princess Irina Maria Nina Kira of Prussia (born 1988)
Princess Philippa of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (born 1988)
Princess Flaminia Pia of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen (born 1992)

House of Habsburg-Lorraine
(note: the list is almost definitely not complete, I'll add others later)
Archduchess Eleonore Jelena of Austria (born 1994)


Georgia (Nugzar Bagration-Gruzinsky line)
No eligible member
Georgia (Bagration-Mukhranski line)
Princess Inès Bagration-Mukhranski (born 1980)

* Denotes those, who I am almost certain would not qualify under the Romanov marriage laws
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  #39  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:10 PM
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Love these suggestions.
Both Grand Duke George's paternal and maternal ancestory are royal related.
But Beatrice and Eugenie are 1/2 royal blooded.
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  #40  
Old 10-13-2009, 02:41 PM
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... House of Thurn and Taxis
Princess Maria Theresia of Thurn and Taxis (born 1980)
Princess Elisabeth Margarethe of Thurn and Taxis (born 1982) ... [snipped]
The above ladies can be excluded from the list because they are very unlikely to renounce their faith (Roman Catholic). Additionally I do not think that eligible ladies from the British royal family will ever marry Grand Duke George. What will the advantages this union be for any of them?
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