Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and other claimants to the Throne 2: Oct '06-Jun '08

[Sean.~]

Originally Posted by branchg

The Emperor approved the marriage of Victoria to Grand Duke Cyril and declared their daughter a princess of the imperial blood with the rank of Highness. He acted harshly at first because The Empress was furious at Victoria for divorcing her brother, Grand Duke Ernst of Hesse.

This has been discussed before. I can't find the sources now, but according to first-hand accounts Alexandra was much more sympathetic to Victoria Melita and Cyril than Nicholas.

Originally Posted by Katya

I am not talking about Kyril's marriage to Victoria Melita, I am talking about his father's marriage to Maria Pavlovna. She was not Orthodox at the time of their marriage, thus making any offspring of hers (including Kyril) ineligible to inherit the throne. Thus from the time of his birth, no matter what he or anyone else said, was legally unable to inherit the throne of Russia.

They were listed as members of the Imperial Family and dynasts in the annual rosters, and were recognized as dynasts by the Tsar. That's all that matters. Moreover, according to the law, only the Tsar and the heir-apparent were really required to marry Orthodox brides.

[RubyPrincess168]

Originally Posted by charlottestreasures

I just read "Nicholas and Alexandra" by Robert K. Massie and am now reading an abridged copy of his latest book "The Romanovs The Final Chapter".

His second book explains why GD MV is not to be considered the heir to the throne.

I can't see the Russian government ever wanting to restore the monarchy, but I'm sure they'd like to exploit them for tourism purposes.

[lord_rankin]

RubyPrincess, if you want to read a really good book on the Romanovs after reading Robert K Massie's book try The Last Tsar by Edvard Radinsky, it is such a well documented account of what led up to there deaths straight up until there remains were reburied. Highly recommended.

[Katya]

RubyPrincess, I also highly recommend Radzinsky's book on Nicholas II. Another good book about Nicholas II is by Dominic Lieven. It is called "Nicholas II: Twilight of the Empire" and it provides a very unbiased view (Lieven refuses to portray NII as a 'bad ruler') of Nicholas' reign, his abilities as a ruler, and the trials he had to face.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by RubyPrincess168

His second book explains why GD MV is not to be considered the heir to the throne.

Massie doesn't take a position on the controversy, except to hint that Paul Ilinsky, as the senior line descendant of Alexander II, is actually the rightful heir if the morganatic question were ignored.

He interviews both Maria and Nicholas and accepts that she is Vladimir's heir as Head of the House.

[fanletizia]

Hearings in Romanov rehabilitation case postponed

http://www.interfax.com/3/201745/news.aspx

[Salomé]

Originally Posted by branchg

Putin has no interest in restoring the imperial throne unless they could totally control it and use it for their own ends. The last thing the Government wants is a more powerful Orthodox Church allied with a Tsar ruling as a symbol of state.

It's not going to happen.

I agree with you.

this is totally a joke,and this would never happen.
Knowing the reality of the Russian actual society and politics,nobody want to hear about a royal family in Russia,including the politics and the newely rich russians who control the whole country,and untill now,I do not see a power which can change that.

[Benjamin]

Duchess seeks local help in restoring Russian monarchy
By Joan Greene
Thursday, May 19, 2005
Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna believes translating her Web site to English might help in her quest to restore the monarchy to Russia...
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_335154.html

[Toledo]

I remember reading that article some time ago, quite interesting. But I think the Grand Duchess and her son have already a helping hand since she was the one who represented Russia during the Reburial Ceremony. That's according to the interview I read in Point De Vue with Prince Michael of Greece. That explains her getting so much exposure while her cousins were sidelined. Time will tell if the pro monarchy movements gets off the ground, and maybe sooner that what we can expect.

[Charlottesville]

I wouldn't support her claim if I were a Romanov. The Grand Duke Cyril placed a red badge on his arm and betrayed the emperor, and even called away the troops from the Alexander Palace. He was not "Emperor in Exile".

[branchg]

Maria is the Head of the Imperial House and is recognized as such by the Russian Government. That's the end of that.

[Charlottesville]

Originally Posted by branchg

Maria is the Head of the Imperial House and is recognized as such by the Russian Government. That's the end of that.

It dosen't really matter what the current Russian government thinks. According to the laws of succession, she is not eligible due to Grand Duke Cyril's betrayl as well as his marriage which Nicholas II did not support. That's the end of that.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Charlottesville

It dosen't really matter what the current Russian government thinks. According to the laws of succession, she is not eligible due to Grand Duke Cyril's betrayl as well as his marriage which Nicholas II did not support. That's the end of that.

We need to introduce some reality and rationality into this "debate". As Grand Duchess Maria appears to be recognised as Head of the Imperial House by those that matter (which includes the current Russian government), that's probably enough for most royal observers.

Personal opinions about alleged "betrayals", no matter how fervently or emotionally held, have no relevance whatsoever to Maria's position within the Gotha, and should not be thrown up as a smoke-screen to obscure or deny the reality.

[lord_rankin]

lol I could not agree more warren!

[Charlottesville]

Originally Posted by Warren

We need to introduce some reality and rationality into this "debate". As Grand Duchess Maria appears to be recognised as Head of the Imperial House by those that matter (which includes the current Russian government), that's probably enough for most royal observers.

Personal opinions about alleged "betrayals", no matter how fervently or emotionally held, have no relevance whatsoever to Maria's position within the Gotha, and should not be thrown up as a smoke-screen to obscure or deny the reality.

But according to the actual laws, Grand Duke Cyril would never have been Tsar, and therefore there's no reason that Maria's claim should be valid. The Romanovs obviously don't recognize her.

[lord_rankin]

No offense to Charlottesville but you should look over the the preceding thread as this topic has been discussed ad nauseam.

[Charlottesville]

Originally Posted by lord_rankin

RubyPrincess, if you want to read a really good book on the Romanovs after reading Robert K Massie's book try The Last Tsar by Edvard Radinsky, it is such a well documented account of what led up to there deaths straight up until there remains were reburied. Highly recommended.

And to add to the "Fate of the Romanovs" by Greg King and Penny Wilson is the most recent so it covers more.

Originally Posted by lord_rankin

No offense to Charlottesville but you should look over the the preceding thread as this topic has been discussed ad nauseam.

No offense taken.

[Katya]

I have to agree with Rankin on this issue. As much as I disagree with Maria's claim, she is recognized as heir by the Russia and other governments. I have come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to sit around arguing about the Pauline laws and Kirill's actions after the February Revolution, because Maria is the accepted "heir" to the non-existent Russian throne.

[Charlottesville]

Well, I still disagree that just because the Russian government recognizes her as heir makes her the "rightful" heir, but that's okay. In the end, it dosen't really matter because the throne dosen't exist.

[Salomé]

Originally Posted by Charlottesville

Well, I still disagree that just because the Russian government recognizes her as heir makes her the "rightful" heir, but that's okay. In the end, it dosen't really matter because the throne dosen't exist.

I personally agree with u Charlottesville,

Why she claims the throne? if the royal family of Russia still existed,she would not be allowed to be a part of it,as she is not a Romanov,and the Romanovs are the lonely rightful to that throne.


I don't think that the actual Russian governoment which recognizes her as a pretendent for the Russian throne is NOT an indice to the person who's the most rightful,as everybody knows,the governoment encourages only those who would serve him,and not those who would change the face of power.

Anyway,I don't think that Maria Vladimorovna or any pretendent for the russian throne would be restored,at least with the actual conditions,very improbable and hard.