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  #641  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:26 AM
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Does accepting an invitation from a Buddhist Lama imply loyalty to a regime?
What exactly has the Grand Duchess not learnt from the past?
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  #642  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:30 AM
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Her Romanov forefathers tried to occupy a lot of countries and to impose the rule of the "Holy Russia" everywhere persecuting Greek-Catholics and Jews and other religious groups as well as Polish, Romanians, Tartars,etc. The only daughter of the late Grand Duke Vladimir still believes in Moscow as the "third Rome" and in the "Holy Russia".
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  #643  
Old 07-25-2014, 09:04 AM
Gentry
 
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Does she really? I never knew that. However, I don't see how a visit to a Buddhist Lama in Ulan-Ude, whose position was created by Catherine the Great, fits in with the the persecution of religious groups. But maybe I have missed something. Also, I can't recall reading anything about Maria Vladimirovna's views on Russia's territorial ambitions. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post some examples of her belief in Holy Russia?

Anyway, the Grand Duchess has now met with the Buddhist monks and the 24th Pandit Hambo Lama. I think it's a nice picture.

tvcom-tv.ru - В Бурятии восстановлено сотрудничество императорского дома и буддийской сангхи России
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  #644  
Old 07-25-2014, 02:54 PM
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Encouraging the separatists in Ukraine and Moldova (Bessarabia) is nothing else than following the nowadays Moscow policy.
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  #645  
Old 07-25-2014, 04:01 PM
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^She is such a toady; even her grandfather Cyril toadied to the Bolsheviks, Vladimir reportedly was a toady to the Communists and SUPPOSEDLY was in quiet talks with the Nazis to have a chance at being Czar, while now Maria toadies to Putin's ambitions.
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  #646  
Old 07-25-2014, 06:48 PM
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Well Cory and AristoCat, that all sounds terrible.

I was not aware the Grand Duchess encouraged separatists in Ukraine and Moldova. Her comments usually seem so careful, with a focus on peace and conciliation. I'd be interested to read any provocative statements. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence to support such a claim? I know she acknowledged the fait accompli of Crimea's return to Russia, 60 years of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR issued a decree to transfer the province from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. But the Crimea is a bit of an exception, as the Grand Duchess explained in the article Cory so kindly posted (I didn't see it until this morning). In the same interview she says that when it comes to any sort of territorial acquisition:
It is necessary always to consider if this specific instance will not end up damaging our common civilization, will be nothing more than a time bomb that will someday explode, will only spawn new problems in the interrelations between nations.
That seems fair enough to me, but maybe I have not seen the evidence that shows otherwise.

I had no idea Grand Duke Vladimir Kyrillovich supposedly had quiet talks with the Nazis about a possible restoration. How awful, not to mention treasonous. AristoCat says he, supposedly had talks. I assume there is some evidence that led to this supposition; I'd be interested to see it. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence to support such a claim? This is all I have found so far. In 1938 Vladimir Kyrillovich publicly repudiated claims that the German Reich tried to tempt him with the offer of a crown. In 1942 the Grand Duke was placed in a concentration camp at Compiegne after he refused to issue a manifesto calling on Russian emigres to support Germany's war against the Soviet Union. The obituary of Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna in The Telegraph says that it was "falsely rumoured that Hitler wished to place him as a puppet Emperor in Russia." But maybe this was all just a smoke screen to cover the truth of co-operation with the Nazis. No smoke without fire, right? If so, the internment camp was a nice touch. However it seems unlikely, even if the Grand Duke was aggressively anti-communist. Also, I would assume his anti-communist views would exclude any toadying to the communists, but maybe I have not seen the evidence that shows otherwise.

I'm not aware of any cases of Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich's toadying to the Bolshiviks. I'd be interested to read about them. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence to support such a claim? Obviously Kirill Vladimirovich's recognition of the Provisional Government in 1917 was not exactly honourable. But that was the Provisional Government, not the Bolsheviks. However, I think it was understandable given the unprecedented circumstances. I know I would have found it difficult to maintain loyalty to an incompetent Emperor whose reign had been so disastrous. After the October Revolution, Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich obviously recognised the dangers of a Bolshevik government and escaped to Finland. That seems fair enough to me, particularly as he had a young family to worry about, but maybe I have not seen the evidence that shows otherwise.
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  #647  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:02 PM
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Cyril withdrew troops that had been protecting the Imperial Family and had a Bolshevik flag wave from the top of his palace. He also swore allegiance to the Reds. Then after he was safe he declared himself Head of the House of Romanov.
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  #648  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:19 PM
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Look all that is in the past. Maria is an opportunist. She doesn't give a lick for Putin or the Russian people. Certainly, not Ukraine or the people who were murdered by these thugs from Russia on the Malaysian flight. Somewhat like her forebears. By the Cyril was a survivor, he swore allegiance to them (Communist) before the Czar abdicated. Quite true, but he got his family to Finland and his attitude, so to speak kept them safe. They survived. Grand Duchess Victoria (Melita) contributed money to the Nazi Party in its inception. They were anti Bolshevik and Anti-Semitic, which was good enough for her. For her there was a reasonable point. I never read where Vladimir had anything to do with Hitler. We speak of today. She wants a throne, Putin will use her for whatever he can get. The Russians don't want a Romanov throne, so they can dream on.
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  #649  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:40 PM
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I hope the Royal Families of Europe will be less close to this person that supports the "ideals" of russian imperialism.
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  #650  
Old 07-25-2014, 09:15 PM
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It is up to European royals to decide. We are not privy to interaction between European royals and Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna.
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  #652  
Old 07-26-2014, 12:57 AM
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Crikey, who did that traitorous Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich think he was? I didn’t know he had a Bolshevik flag fly over his palace, or that he swore allegiance to the reds. I'd be interested to learn more about this. All I can find about the flag over the palace is from the memoir of Princess Paley:
Thus it came about that a member of the Imperial family, the Grand Duke X--, arrived at the head of his regiment to place himself at the disposal of the rebels and waited more than an hour in the court-yard, until M. Rodzianko was good enough to receive him and shake hands with him. When he returned home the Prince had a red flag hoisted on the roof of his house.(1)
As the Princess was at Tsarskoye Selo during those tumultuous days, I’m not sure how reliable a witness she was of what happened in Petrograd. Also, during the February Revolution of 1917, non-communist revolutionaries also used the red flag.(2) So if a red flag fluttered over the Vladimir Palace in Petrograd (did the palace even have a flag pole?), and if the Grand Duke ordered it hoisted (do we know if he did?), it was not necessarily a sign of support for the Bolsheviks. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence that the red flag story is true?

As for the Grand Duke swearing allegiance to the reds, communists, or Bolsheviks, I can’t find any evidence of this at all. The Bolsheviks did not come to power until the October Revolution overthrew the Provisional Government. Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich, along with Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, recognised the Provisional Government before the abdication of the Emperor. But it looks like they hoped to work with the Provisional Government to save the throne for the Emperor.(3)

As Princess Paley confirms above, Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich led the Marine Guard to the Tauride Palace to offer his services to the Provisional Government. The French Ambassador Maurice Paléologue confirmed the Grand Duke’s visit to the Tauride (but he does not mention a red flag).(4) Anyway, recognising the Provisional Government is quite different to “swearing allegiance” to the Bolsheviks (who, as I said, where not yet in power). But maybe the Grand Duke did swear allegiance after the October Revolution, before he escaped to Finland? Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence that the swearing allegiance to communists story is true?

All this is, of course, completely off topic and has nothing to do with Maria Vladimirovna’s current visit to Ulan-Ude. She seems to be having a good time.

1. Memories of Russia :: Chapter V :: Manifesto of the Grand Dukes - Miliukoff's Comment
2. Soviet Russia (1917-1923) and early flags of Russia in the Soviet Union (1923-1954)
3. Letter from Grand Duke Kyrill Vladimirovich to his uncle Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich Memories of Russia :: Chapter V :: Manifesto of the Grand Dukes - Miliukoff's Comment
4. A lifelong passion: Nicholas and Alexandra – their own story London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1996: 552
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  #653  
Old 07-26-2014, 02:16 AM
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The Vladimirs were always plotting against the main branch of the imperial family.
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  #654  
Old 07-26-2014, 03:23 AM
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Crikey, AristoCat, that's just outrageous. Who did those upstarts think they were? But I did not know they actually plotted against the ruling branch of the family. There must be some sources to back up a serious accusation like treason. I'd be interested to learn more about it. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence that the Vladimirs were always plotting?
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  #655  
Old 07-26-2014, 03:38 AM
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I hope Maria Vladimirovna's son, for the supporters Grand Duke Georgiy of Russia, for the non supporters Prinz Georg von Preussen, will speak out for a constitutional monarchy embedded in a modern democracy. The ideas of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna shows that she has learned nothing from 1917...
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  #656  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:33 AM
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Kyrill was every bit as treasonous to his family, and Nicholas ii as Philippe égalité was to his, and Louis xvi.

So to legitimists the Vladimir branch of the Romanovs are as unacceptable [as claimants] to the throne of Russia as the
Orléans branch of the Bourbons are to the throne of France.
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  #657  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:58 AM
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It is astonishingly easy to condemn so many royals in two sentences without giving any argumentation. All this while you are seated safely behind your screen. We can not say that about Louis XVI or Nicholas II who were, with their complete families, slaughtered down for what they were and what they embodied.

As Duc d'Orléans, Duc de Nemours and Prince de Joinville this "Philippe Egalité" was a Premier Prince du Sang, the most important person of the kingdom after the King's immediate family, and, as such, next in line to the throne should the main Bourbon line die out. Well, the main Bourbon line died out ("Philippe Egalité" was guillotined himself by the way) and make a turn to the left or make a turn to the right, the line of this Philippe de Bourbon (Orléans) and his wife Marie-Adélaïde de Bourbon (Penthièvre) are now rightful claimants to the throne.

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  #658  
Old 07-26-2014, 05:18 AM
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Grand Duchess Maria has been a busy bee. Who does this reactionary Russian nationalist think she is? The information Ceallach so kindly posted was very interesting. I had read some of it before, but it was good to see more. But I do not think Crimea and Transnistria are in the same league as Ukraine. I understand that Crimea was only part of Ukraine for sixty years and the majority of its residents are Russians. As for Transnistria, it is already an autonomous region. Don’t get me wrong; I think the Grand Duchess’s visit to Transnistria was ill-advised and she should have politely declined the invitation. But it seemed to be quite harmless, as it does not look like she made any inflammatory comments (I wonder if the Republic of Moldova has expressed any opinion on her relationship with this little tear away region).

But what of Maria Vladimirovna’s support of Russian aggression in other parts of the former Empire and Soviet Union? Her admiration of President Putin? Her failure to learn from the past? There must be some reputable sources to back up such serious accusations. I'd be interested to learn more about it. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence that Maria Vladimirovna desires a return to Autocracy over all the lands of the former Russian Empire? That is, after all, what most of the accusations come down to isn’t it?

As the Grand Duchess is apparently so despised by so many posters, I thought there would be plenty of examples of her nationalist, reactionary, imperialist views. But I’m having trouble finding them. She certainly is not backward when it comes to giving interviews. But I’ve never discerned extremism in her comments. Old fashioned monarchism, yes, without a doubt, but nothing very inflammatory. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence that Maria Vladimirovna actively and publicly supports President Putin’s Ukraine (not Crimean) policy?

I don’t get the impression she is sitting in her flat in Madrid waiting for the telephone to ring and the Day of Glory to dawn. She just seems to be getting on with her life. She accepts that a restoration is not going to happen at any time in the foreseeable future, and that her role is that of the head of a former reigning family. As such she focuses on cultural, historic, religious and charitable causes. So do others like Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia and Princess Margarita of Romania. But nobody seems to accuse them of harbouring nefarious ambitions.

Maybe I am missing something, and the Grand Duchess is really as awful as so many people seem to think. But all I see on this forum are are personal opinions with very little, if any, objective facts to support what are, at times, quite serious accusations. If she really is so vile I will quite happily join the anti-Maria chorus (I’m a baritone by the way). I just want to see the proof. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post verifiable evidence to unmask this supposedly abhorrent woman?
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  #659  
Old 07-26-2014, 05:18 AM
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Orléans/Egalité could [had he had a jot of familial or dynastic loyalty have taken the road to exile like his cousins Provence,Artois, Conti and Conde.. instead of [out of pure ambition] throwing his lot in with the revolution [which he had done his best to forment] welcoming the canaille, and revolutionaries to his property,the Palais Royale, in the years preceding the revolution.

His TREASON, to the crown, and to his family [like Vladimir's] IMO disqualifies him and his descendants from the throne [ to say nothing of his son .Louis Philippes usurpation of the throne of Charles X in 1830..]

Thoroughly BAD, the lot of them...
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  #660  
Old 07-26-2014, 06:07 AM
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Getting back on topic, the Grand Duchess has arrived in Irkutsk. I enjoyed seeing the photos of the visit to the Buddhist monastery. In 1993 I travelled by train from Hong Kong to St Petersburg, via Mongolia. The Bogda Khan's Winter Palace in Ulan-Battor, and the couple of monasteries I visited were the highlight of Mongolia. Unfortunately all I saw of Ulan-Ude was the train station, but I spent a couple of days in Irkutsk. It was an interesting place, though it was the only Russian city I did not feel safe in, as I was followed by a group of suspicious looking young men. One night I went to the local Chinese restaurant, and the only item on the menu was Chicken Kiev on Fried Rice!

Anyway, here are a couple of the latest reports on the Grand Duchess's visit.

sia.ru

Ulanmedia.ru
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