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  #481  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:11 PM
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Her family was also officially recognized by Georgia in the 1990s as the woulde-be royal family of Georgia.
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  #482  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceallach View Post
Her family was also officially recognized by Georgia in the 1990s as the woulde-be royal family of Georgia.
I'm pretty sure Maria Vladimirovna's family has no official status in Georgia.
The branches of Bagrationi family are recognised as claimants to the throne, that's all.

There has been a dispute between Bagration-Mukhrani and Bagration-Gruzinski families for many years. While the Mukhrani branch (to which Maria Vladimirovna belongs) in genealogically senior, it hasn't ruled in Georgia since 18th century. The Gruzinski branch, though genealogically junior, was the last ruling Georgian royal house before the country was annexed into the Russian Empire. The dispute is now thing of the past, however, since the heirs to both branches - Princess Anne and Prince David - got married; their infant son is now the undisputed heir.
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  #483  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:09 PM
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The dispute is now thing of the past, however, since the heirs to both branches - Princess Anne and Prince David - got married; their infant son is now the undisputed heir.
How nice that the dispute was so neatly solved and now there is a solution.
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  #484  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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Undisputed heir? Of where? Another extinct throne? Does that mean Maria can now claim the Georgian 'throne' also?
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  #485  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:17 PM
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Undisputed? Why of course. The son of Prince Davit and Princess Anna has united both Bagration branches, should the monarchy be restored sometime in the future, this child will succeed his father, who would be King Davit.

Even though HIH Maria claims Georgia, historically "All the Russias" includes only the modern states of Russia, Ukraine, Finland, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland and Latvia.
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  #486  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:27 PM
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Undisputed heir? Of where? Another extinct throne? Does that mean Maria can now claim the Georgian 'throne' also?
Maria is way, way down the line of succession to the former Throne of Georgia.
The undisputed heir is Prince George Bagration-Bagrationi, the son of Prince David and Princess Anne. David and Anne are the heirs of two rivalling branches of the Bagrationi family; their marriage united the families and their son will one day succeed the claims to both Bagration-Mukhrani and Bagration-Gruzinski branches.
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  #487  
Old 03-28-2012, 10:55 AM
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... And the saga continues...

From Today's Interfax/Religion

27 March 2012, 14:52 House of Romanov still doubts authenticity of Yekaterinburg remains (updated)

Moscow, March 27, Interfax - The House of Romanov has studied the Russian Investigative Committee's statement on the criminal probe into the murder of Russian Tsar Nicholas II, and his family said that the central question - whether the Yekaterinburg remains were authentic - has not been answered.

In October 2011, following a series of forensic tests the Russian Investigative Committee referred a copy of the statement on completion of the criminal probe into the imperial family's murder to the House of Romanov, which spent several months studying it.

"There is nothing new in this statement that was kept under wraps for so long. We did not find anything that would change our opinion concerning the authenticity of the Yekaterinburg remains," the House of Romanov spokesman Alexander Zakatov told Interfax on Tuesday.

"The statement cites documents which remain closed to us. We cannot take these arguments on faith," he said.

The Russian Investigative Committee's statement, released in January 2011, says that the remains found outside Yekaterinburg were those of members of the imperial family and their relatives, executed by the Bolsheviks.

The Russian Orthodox Church has not recognized, either, that the remains found near Yekaterinburg are those of Nicholas II and his family, he said. "The House of Romanov agrees with the Russian Orthodox Church," Zakatov said.

"Some questions have remained unanswered. The theory that Nicholas II and his son were beheaded remains very vague to this day. There is indirect evidence suggesting that this could have been done. Investigators did not brush this theory away. The fate of the cook Sednev has not been established, either. This issue has nothing to do with the authenticity of the remains, but is related to the tsar's family. Some claimed that the cook was executed, too. Investigators did not answer the question about his fate. He did not disappear in little faith, did he?" Zakatov said.

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  #488  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:45 AM
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I assume when he says the "House of Romanov" he really means Maria?
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  #489  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I assume when he says the "House of Romanov" he really means Maria?
Maria and Prince Georgi, to be more precise - the only people Maria recognises as "true" dynasts who belong to the House of Romanov.
To the best of my knowledge, the Romanov Family Association (which includes pretty much all other descendants of the Romanov Imperial Family) has never contested the DNA results.
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  #490  
Old 03-28-2012, 12:16 PM
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Of course, how could I forget HRH Prince Georg of Prussia?
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  #491  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:46 PM
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What on eath will convince this woman that the remains are what they are?
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  #492  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:57 PM
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The Grand Duchess will accept the validity of the remains the moment the Orthodox Church does, but not a second sooner.
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  #494  
Old 03-28-2012, 02:19 PM
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I suppose the Russian Orthodox Church are amongst those to dispute the science of DNA. Too 20th century I guess.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:35 PM
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Who was the comparator in the DNA tests?
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  #496  
Old 03-28-2012, 02:40 PM
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The Grand Duchess will accept the validity of the remains the moment the Orthodox Church does, but not a second sooner.
Agreed, it is about being on the same page as the church.

But probably them, not likely contaminated by someone also related to Prince Philip of the UK. Not sure why they used Philip - great nephew of Alexandra but only descended from Nicholas I on Russian side (3rd cousin). Plus probably would have been easier to approach the Romanovs then getting access to Philip.

I suspect they did not want to give any of the Romanovs a DNA link to Nicholas's family even if was someone not making a claim such as Olga's family. I think Maria probably felt some closer like herself should have been used: her grandparents are after all 1st cousins (to each other and Nicholas) on the Romanov side and Victoria was a 1st cousin to Alexandra too. They could have done two sample and have used Rostislav sr or another in Xenia's family to apease both groups.

The church might also want to return the monarchy and may want to redo the tests with Maria. It could be they are trying to help Maria regain the throne.

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  #497  
Old 03-28-2012, 02:54 PM
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Amongst others, because they were comparing maternal DNA, I believe they used Prince Philip, Prince Andrew Romanov, the Duke of Fife and Xenia Yussopovs granddaughter. They also later extracted DNA from the tomb of Grand Duke George and his DNA was an exact match to the DNA of the bones identified as Tsar Nicholas II.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...ystery-to-rest

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3205009/
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  #498  
Old 03-28-2012, 03:38 PM
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Agreed, it is about being on the same page as the church.

Quote:
But probably them, not likely contaminated by someone also related to Prince Philip of the UK. Not sure why they used Philip - great nephew of Alexandra but only descended from Nicholas I on Russian side (3rd cousin). Plus probably would have been easier to approach the Romanovs then getting access to Philip.
I always did find that incredibly odd; Philip was only distantly related and I do hope that there is no funny business going on behind closed doors. It is odd since there are more Romanovs that are more closely related, yet go figure, they were ignored?


Quote:
I suspect they did not want to give any of the Romanovs a DNA link to Nicholas's family even if was someone not making a claim such as Olga's family. I think Maria probably felt some closer like herself should have been used: her grandparents are after all 1st cousins (to each other and Nicholas) on the Romanov side and Victoria was a 1st cousin to Alexandra too. They could have done two sample and have used Rostislav sr or another in Xenia's family to apease both groups.
I think they should analyze the DNA of Marie and Alexei and have Rostislav donate his blood this time and I think that more than anything, that there should at this point a series of tests done to verify. It IS so odd that even at this point the people from the Romanov Family Association are excluded.

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The church might also want to return the monarchy and may want to redo the tests with Maria. It could be they are trying to help Maria regain the throne.
Why though? If the Russians are happy or content with being citizens instead of subjects, why on earth should there be a restoration? Why is the Church so invested in Maria and not the others?
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  #499  
Old 03-28-2012, 03:46 PM
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Mitrocondial (sic) DNA is passed on through the female line:

Queen Victoria>Alice>Alexandra>children
Queen Victoria>Alice>Victoria>Alice>Philip

There was nothing fishy about using his DNA for this purpose. It was correct science.

Also if you look at the links provided above other DNA test were done using DNA from Andrew Romanov and Xenia Yussopovs granddaughter.
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  #500  
Old 03-28-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Amongst others, because they were comparing maternal DNA, I believe they used Prince Philip, Prince Andrew Romanov, the Duke of Fife and Xenia Yussopovs granddaughter. They also later extracted DNA from the tomb of Grand Duke George and his DNA was an exact match to the DNA of the bones identified as Tsar Nicholas II.

DNA Testing Lays Romanov Murder Mystery to Rest - US News and World Report

The identification of the Romanovs: Can we (finally) put the controversies to rest?
Either it was a case of avoiding the claimnants or maybe they did the testing in the UK and Russia and these people were all living nearby?

But the tests should be correct and accepted - especially George.

But Maria will not go against the church.
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