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  #341  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Firstly, I do know my history and I think to imply someone is uneducated because they disagree with your point of view isn't good form. Secondly, you're talking about a dynasty that reigned for over 300 years with various personalities, you can't possibly make such a sweeping statement that they were all sadistic, anti-semitic, self-indulging leaders. Indeed, alot of Russians had life much better off under the Tsars than under the jack boot of communism and surely anyone can see that? It's actually impossible to know the number of people killed under Stalin (but you get the idea of how evil a regime it was when it was built on the deaths of five innocent children...). That's not to say the Russian Imperial system was totally flawless or that similar kinds of human rights abuses didn't take place, my point is that to say monarchy was better for Russia than communism isn't overly romantic or a ploy, it's my opinion based on the facts avaliable.

What really becomes a chore in this forum is the endless repetition of claims against Maria with absolutely no proof. You keep reciting parrot fashion your view that she has this negative, almost sinister, agenda but when you're asked to say why you think that and what your evidence is to support it, you can't give any. I think I've a pretty good idea of her motives based on my own personal research, yet you seem to have decided she's this wicked monstrous autocrat who'd sell her grandmother for a chance at being an Empress.
Wonderful words there! I think history education is sickeningly biased if it fails to recognise the evils of Communism and the fact that it was responsible for more deaths (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mengistu) than anything else man-made in history. I for one can never forgive Churchill, FDR and Eisenhower for what was done to dad's old country (Czech Republic) and half of Europe after 1945. Not to mention Stalin's genocidal policies towards Ukrainians, Chechens, etc. If people don't learn enough about the evils of Communism, it's because of Politically Correct thought pervading our society including our school system.

Communism and Nazism are two sides of the same coin. Both invent an "enemy class" for systematic persecution and extermination in the name of building a "new order" of their liking.
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  #342  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:57 PM
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Depends on which religion you professed, and what you think is equitible. For Jews the Tsar and the Nazis same plane. Communism a bit better, not much. How do you think peasants lived. Why do you think there was a revolution? Letting the Russians overrun the eastern bloc countries, was a compromise, after a long and difficult war. They gave a lot of blood to the effort. That doesn't mean I like them. They murdered more than their share, so to speak. The Ukrainians murdered plenty of people for the Germans during WWII. They joined the Germans in persecution. A fact. Not politically correct. Eisenhower didn't make deals, he was a general not a head of state. As for Maria, she is a non-entity in most places. She has pushed herself forward for a reason. Not for love of anything, except what might be in it for her son, and that is a joke. Poor man. He is, also, a Hohenzollern, maybe she should see what is happening in Berlin. And, by the way, History Majors, do a lot of research. It is not Political Correctness. And, at my age, I lived through many things you read about.l
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  #343  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:35 PM
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Countess,
As usually your comments are astute. Everything depends on a complex picture with infinite variables. When it comes to nations living the Caucasus mountains (Chechens, Karachays, Ossetians, etc), it would be fair to say that Communists copied the Tsarit poliicies.
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  #344  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Depends on which religion you professed, and what you think is equitible...
Eisenhower was involved in approving Operation Keelhaul. That alone is unforgivable. And the fact Communism was forced onto half of Europe, including dad's old country (he fled in 1968) left me with a bitterness and rage.

No side was angelic in World War II. The Soviets committed horrendous crimes, as were some of the Allied bombings.

Let's not forget too that as recently as the 1980s, Latin American countries like Guatemala and El Salvador were slaughtering thousands of their own citizens, and especially in Guatemala they were not much better than what was happening in World War II, what they were doing to their native population. And the fact that those responsible have never been punished makes one even angrier.
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  #345  
Old 12-09-2011, 02:27 PM
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I admit that I sometimes don't know what to make of her and wonder if whether or not she really wants what is best for her son or wants power for herself. To me she is in over her head and dealing with people that are likely going to end up putting her son at risk for real trouble. Putin is not plyaing around and he is staunchly nationalist and will not share power with anyone. If she is seeking social/symbolic power, good; if she is seeking political power/influence, then she is putting herself and her son at risk in regards to their very lives.
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  #346  
Old 12-09-2011, 03:24 PM
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Maria is very savvy and well understands the issues in Russia. I do not believe she is seeking any official role or recognition in the existing governmental structure as the Russian Crown. She knows a real restoration is not possible at this time nor is Russia ready for a constitutional democracy.

I think she is seeking official recognition of the cultural and religious role represented by the Imperial House, with perhaps some support of the royal endeavors. However, this too is very unlikely to happen and she knows that.

That's why she lives in Spain and not Russia.
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  #347  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I admit that I sometimes don't know what to make of her and wonder if whether or not she really wants what is best for her son or wants power for herself. To me she is in over her head and dealing with people that are likely going to end up putting her son at risk for real trouble. Putin is not plyaing around and he is staunchly nationalist and will not share power with anyone. If she is seeking social/symbolic power, good; if she is seeking political power/influence, then she is putting herself and her son at risk in regards to their very lives.
Interesting observation. I happen to think she wants some sort of Regent acknowledgement/throne/etc. however it would be for a non-existent throne.
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  #348  
Old 12-09-2011, 11:51 PM
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I sometimes wonder if whether or not she would be comfortable in an officially reinforced role. Politics in the East has always been a bloody business and something that anyone with brains would end up staying well clear of if they are not entirely sure of what they are doing. An official, established monarchy would largely be at the direction of the government and I do not think that she has the ability to end up really avoiding the temptation of trying to edge her way into political influence. Social power should be where it begins and ends, but what if Maria ends up getting the title, but then edging in for power? She should (to me) play it safe and let her son continue to live his life and enjoy what they have already, which is to be buried in Russia and they were able to hold ceremonies for Nicholas II and his family.
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  #349  
Old 12-11-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I sometimes wonder if whether or not she would be comfortable in an officially reinforced role. Politics in the East has always been a bloody business and something that anyone with brains would end up staying well clear of if they are not entirely sure of what they are doing. An official, established monarchy would largely be at the direction of the government and I do not think that she has the ability to end up really avoiding the temptation of trying to edge her way into political influence. Social power should be where it begins and ends, but what if Maria ends up getting the title, but then edging in for power? She should (to me) play it safe and let her son continue to live his life and enjoy what they have already, which is to be buried in Russia and they were able to hold ceremonies for Nicholas II and his family.
Another great observation, AristoCat. I've bolded the parts with which I agree most.

Putin plays for keeps and he plays for the future. Maria has a strong (if not entirely based-in-fact) sense of the past but I believe a naive and watery view of a potential future, like an Impressionist painting, rosy and warm. The mismatch of visions could only be a fatal one, figuratively if not literally.

I suppose if you've lived your entire life for one dream - restoration to a perception of entitlement and perogatives - it would be very, very difficult to curb the grasp once it feels to be so very close.

I note that her son is careful on these matters, more so than Maria.
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  #350  
Old 12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
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I note that her son is careful on these matters, more so than Maria
I think Georgi just wants a solid lifestyle and he sees things more clearly than his mother does. I appreciate your compliments in regards to my observations and I think Maria has the right intentions, but she lacks a discernment as to the reality of Eastern politics and apparently underestimates just how different things are.
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  #351  
Old 12-12-2011, 03:42 PM
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Grand Duchess Maria at the ceremony dedicated to a future orthodox church in Madrid:

Noblesse & Royauts La grande-duchesse Maria de Russie la pose de la 1re pierre de l’glise orthodoxe russe de Madrid
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  #352  
Old 12-12-2011, 09:44 PM
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An article about the opening -
http://www.newizv.ru/world/2011-12-0...v-madride.html
Google Translate
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  #353  
Old 12-12-2011, 10:00 PM
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I read the traslation in English. Almost, makes no sense.
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  #354  
Old 12-13-2011, 12:08 PM
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First Lady's Diary- Blessing of an Orthodox Church in Madrid
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  #355  
Old 12-14-2011, 11:35 AM
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Georgi was there too.

v Grand Duchess Maria, Grand Duke Georgi & Mrs Medvedev, Madrid December 2011
Picture courtesy of the President of Russia website.
President of Russia website and reproduced here in accordance with the site's copyright conditions.
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  #356  
Old 12-16-2011, 06:03 PM
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Documentary on Grand Duke Vladimir and his family made in 1990s -


Video of Grand Duchess Maria's visit to California in 2010 -
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  #357  
Old 12-17-2011, 12:08 PM
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Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna arrived in Moscow yesterday to take part in celebrations surrounding the tenth anniversary of the revival of the Imperial Military Order of St. Nicholas.

http://nikolaevec.livejournal.com/435349.html
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  #358  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:23 PM
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Recently,the GD Maria Vladimirovna visited Russia and awarded the soldiers with the Order of Saint Nicholas.In a short interview she said she hopes to return soon in Russia and she is quite sure about their future in Russia.
- : ! // KP.RU
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  #359  
Old 12-27-2011, 11:19 AM
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She never lets up, does she? Prince Rostislav has been living and working in Russia for some time and he was the first Romanov to move back. If this woman doesn't let up, she might end up pushing everyone who pays attention to this too far.
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  #360  
Old 12-29-2011, 10:46 PM
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The Russian Imperial House is officially recognised
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