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  #21  
Old 08-15-2008, 07:03 AM
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Yes, I understand your reasoning, Al Bina. But also ,what I have noticed studying History is that both the French people and the Russians, eliminated one system for one much worse. In the case of France, they ended up with an Emperor, In the case of Russia, I think that Stalin and others were not easy masters.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2008, 07:11 AM
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Here you go:
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2008, 10:26 AM
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Great footage.....
can we ID the women in the carriages?
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  #24  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:43 AM
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During Nicholas and Alexandra's coronation, (Khodynka tragedy) the peasants where angry and worried that there was enough presents for everyone, and they began to panic and people were trampled to death over 1,000 people died. Some were also injured too.Nicholas and Alexandra shouldn't have went to the ball,that day because it would show that many would had criticized Nicholas. But, I think he did because he visit many injured peasants in hospitals and supported the wounded. Other's knew Nicholas reign was going to be an bad omen.
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  #25  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
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According to R Massey in "Nicholas and Alexandra" the day following the coronation belonged to the people of Moscow. G D Serge arranged for a huge open air feast and the Tsar and the Empress would attend. There were hundreds of barrels of beer brought and a few thousand of Muscovites came from the night before and by dawn a lot were drunk. When a rumour circulated that there was not enough beer and only those who were first would get some there was a run and a lot of people were trumpled, injured or died. The Tsar did not want to go to the French Ambassador's ball that night but his uncles prevailed. The Tsar and the Empress spent one day after that going from hospital to hospital visiting the injured.
In another paragraph Massey mentions that while Nicholas walked up the altar steps to receive the sacrament, the heavy chain of the Order of St Andrew slipped from his shoulder and fell to the floor. Only those around him noticed but it was taken as an omen to his reign.
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  #26  
Old 08-20-2008, 01:54 PM
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Yes, but the tsar went anyway to the ball. The peasants were angry about that, they believed he should have stayed and help the peasants.Some of the families of the peasants were angry that the people who were killed in khodynka tragedy were buried in unmarked graves. A lot of people were disapointed that the peasant graves weren't buried with a name.
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  #27  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:43 PM
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The disaster happenned before the Cossacks even made it to the scene. Massey describes the meadow as a battefield. The Tsar gave from his private funds 1,000 rubles to the family of each victim. They both spent the next day going from hospital to hospital.
This was an unforseen tragedy and I do not believe it can be attributed to the Tsar. To keep appearances they went to the ball and there were blamed for it. As they were blamed for everything they did during their reign.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:31 AM
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The Tsar did not want to go to the Ball but was advised that should he not do so others may be offended, the Ball being given by the French. GD Serge had been in charge and he should have taken the full blame and be dismissed but Alexandra interjected on behalf of GD Ella to keep his position, or so I read somewhere. Horrible start to the reign and of course down hill from there.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:38 AM
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It´s awful to think that they were "doomed" from the start. If they had not gone to the ball they would be criticized, as they went...Anything they would have done, seems to me would be the wrong thing.
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:23 AM
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Seems like the time they ascended to the throne and taking the oath as an autocrat, when the attitudes were changing, was the wrong thing to do. Nicholas as it turned out was naive and ill prepared. Alexandra of course was disliked from the beginning and it all snowballed with Alexei's illness, Rasputin's influence, the influence the uncles had on Nicholas and so on and so forth.
Of course in the Orthodox faith there is a lot of superstition and a lot of outcomes can be blamed on "omens" and "fates" and "evil eye". ( I belong to this Church so I am not criticising it)
It is unfortunate that two monarchs who were deep down kind hearted and loved their people ended in the ditch.
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  #31  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:39 AM
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Yes, but since the tsar went to the ball and the Russian peasants weren't too pleased. The believed he should have did more about the disater.
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  #32  
Old 08-21-2008, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
...
Of course in the Orthodox faith there is a lot of superstition and a lot of outcomes can be blamed on "omens" and "fates" and "evil eye"... [snipped]
Right you are... Pikul noted that common people looked upon Khodynka tragedy as an ill omen. It was said that Nicholas II started his reign in blood and would finish it in blood. Needless to say that this foreboding came true.
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  #33  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:23 AM
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A reading of detailed reports of what occurred at Khodynka and the immediate aftermath will make your hair stand on end. As Odette states above, Massie describes the scene as a battlefield, other reports describe it as carnage.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:51 AM
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"We expected the party would be called off. Instead it took place if nothing had happened and the ball was opened by Their Majesties dancing a quadrille." It was a painful evening. "The Empress appeared in great distress, her eyes reddened by tears" the British Ambassador informed Queen Victoria. Masses of simple Russians took the disaster at khodynka Meadow as an omen that the reign would be unhappy. Other Russians, more sophisticated or more vengeful used the tragedy to underscore the heartlessness of the autocracy and the contemptible shallowness of the young Tsar and his 'German woman'
Sergius Witte, just after the tragedy.
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  #35  
Old 08-21-2008, 12:32 PM
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I believe I have read somewhere (and I can't remember exactly where right now) that the imperial couple only stayed at the French ball that evening for a very short time. Opening the ball with one dance and then leaving shortly afterwards out of respect (so to speak) for the victims of the tragedy. I know they were pressured into going to the ball by the uncles because of diplomatic reasons.

Of course, over a century later, we have the 20/20 hindsight to realize what a terrible blunder this was. If such a tragedy happened today of course the ball would have been cancelled. But nowhere do I ever recall reading anything about the hosts of the ball considering canceling it out of respect to the victims. I think that shows how times have changed.

I also recall reading that they were scheduled to attend another ball the next evening but decided to cancel their appearance. I will try to see if I can locate my source on this.
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  #36  
Old 08-21-2008, 12:54 PM
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The Tsar did not want to go to the Ball but was advised that should he not do so others may be offended, the Ball being given by the French. GD Serge had been in charge and he should have taken the full blame and be dismissed but Alexandra interjected on behalf of GD Ella to keep his position, or so I read somewhere. Horrible start to the reign and of course down hill from there.
Totally agree. Nicholas was being overwhelmed by at least two of his three uncles and he did not have the strength to go against their wishes.
The fact they went to the ball and opened it dancing the quadrille is something a lot remembered. The fact that they were both tense and worried and spent the day in prayer did not impress many. If it was his army that caused the panic and the mayhem that ensued, he could be blamed. They tried to keep up appearances and follow etiquette, unfortunately, one of many blunders.
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Yes, but since the tsar went to the ball and the Russian peasants weren't too pleased. The believed he should have did more about the disater.
I do not believe the Russian peasants were the problem. Actually from what I have gathered they were the ones who truly loved and respected the Imperial family. What more besides skipping the ball could he have done for this particular disaster?
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Right you are... Pikul noted that common people looked upon Khodynka tragedy as an ill omen. It was said that Nicholas II started his reign in blood and would finish it in blood. Needless to say that this foreboding came true.
Well, first it was the "German" who came to Russia behind the coffin. Then it was the chain holding the order of St Georges that slipped off Nicholas' shoulders the day of the coronation, then came Khodynka and it never stopped. Some reigns were doomed from the onset and this one was a perfect storm so to speak.
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  #37  
Old 08-21-2008, 01:58 PM
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Throne Speech 1906

This isn't necessarily coronation related, but here is a website that has pictures from a speech of sorts made by Nicholas II in 1906, attended by the Court. The pictures are remarkable.

http://www.romanovrussia.com/LargeNIIphoto.html
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  #38  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:12 PM
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Thanks for such magnificent photos!
Dowager Empress Marie Fedorovna looked regal and sharp, whereas Empress Alexandra Fedorovna seemed rapt in contemplation.
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  #39  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:40 AM
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I think the wonderul pictures (thank you for the link!) emphasize the personalities of both the Empress and Dowager Empress. The Empress was known to be very shy and disliked very public occasions (such as a coronation where there was no way to avoid being scrutinized). However, the Dowager Empress was known to have a more "outgoing" personality. I think it shows in the pictures, even though it's a very formal ceremony.
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  #40  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:09 PM
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I do not believe the Russian peasants were the problem. Actually from what I have gathered they were the ones who truly loved and respected the Imperial family. What more besides skipping the ball could he have done for this particular disaster?
This disaster happened all from a rumor that there might not be enough beer and presents for everyone.
Nicholas and Alexandra are not guilty, they had nothing to do with the problem.. All they could have done was visit the hospitals and help out with the wounded peasants. They did all they could to help. But, some of them were mad that the peasants that were killed, didn't get their graves marked.
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