Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think so, the AA supporters only write books that try to make you believe, and the ones who don't believe feel no proof is necessary because denying the DNA is as bad as believing in Santa or a flat earth. I do believe the other (non AA) side needs to be told, so that's what I put on my site. All you have to do is add that info with the AA fans' writings and you have what you want. However, really, giving any value to the AA side after all these DNA tests is really ridiculous and shouldn't even be seriously considered. It's not an opinion anymore once it's been officially disproven. If anyone 'makes up their mind' that AA is AN, they are a conspiracy theorist, end of story.

There are some that say Klier and Mingay's "Quest for Anastasia" presents both sides, but they were writing from the POV that the DNA tests were back and we knew AA was fake. You might try the book and see what you think.
I don't agree. Surely Lovell's work included a lot of fiction for dramatic effect, but Peter Kurth's work was well researched and thought out and presented both sides. Peter has always said, "She said she is who she is."
 
Why? If they did not believe in her, why let it influence their lives? There certainly were enough impostors out there, but Anna Anderson was the only one they paid attention to. One wonders why.
From a lot of accounts from Olga, Irene, Ernest and Gilliard, they really had enough of her. Pierre Gilliard's denunciation of her being "a cunning psychopath''. Pierre Gilliard knew she was an impostor, the fact she was unable to remember defining events of "her" life but could rattle off specific details of family bank accounts (including secret passwords) the real Anastasia would never have been told convinced even the most gullible.

AA was the most famous imposter of the imperial family. People in the family were tired of AA making up lies about thing and then they wanted to take her into court. Nobody would be claiming to be a dead princess for over decades that long.
Something had to be done. She lost her mind in the Berlin Asylum. AA had so many supporters and it really got out of control. She was making up so many lies, and about Ernest being in Russia in 1916.

I am not talking ears here, the ear on the alleged photo of Maria is too washed-out to make any comparison. I am talking about the profile comparison.
Oh, ok I see what you're saying. I still don't see a resemblence in their profiles. You can still tell this is a different person.
 
From a lot of accounts from Olga, Irene, Ernest and Gilliard, they really had enough of her. Pierre Gilliard's denunciation of her being "a cunning psychopath''. Pierre Gilliard knew she was an impostor, the fact she was unable to remember defining events of "her" life but could rattle off specific details of family bank accounts (including secret passwords) the real Anastasia would never have been told convinced even the most gullible.

And if Gilliard thought she was a cunning psychopath, why did he (presumably) ask Olga to come to Berlin and see AA? Why did he refer to the unknown patient at Mommsen as "her Imperial Highness, the Grand Duchess"? Why did they all leave Berlin without being able to say that AA was NOT the Grand Duchess? And then changed their minds 3 months later without ever seeing her again? Why did Olga write things like "I remember when we were together," "longing to see you" "we shall not abandon you"? Why did she write Andrew that "of course, you may think I am wrong. These things can happen..."?

AA was the most famous imposter of the imperial family. People in the family were tired of AA making up lies about thing and then they wanted to take her into court. Nobody would be claiming to be a dead princess for over decades that long.

And why do you think she became famous?

Something had to be done.

So why was nothing done about the New York Anastasia?

She lost her mind in the Berlin Asylum.

And you find me ONE doctor that supports that assumption.

AA had so many supporters and it really got out of control.

And why do you think she had so many supporters?

She was making up so many lies, and about Ernest being in Russia in 1916.

A "lie" that was witnessed by so many others.
 
Because her supporters had more money to help finance her campaign. Also, people love to be duped. She was a good actress.

Her supporters had money? Which ones? The Botkins were flat broke most of the time, Xenia Leeds had no money of her own, Dassel lost his job when he was arrested traveling through Hesse, the Duke and Duchess of Leuchtenberg were living hand to mouth, Prince Friederich lost everything in the war etc etc. I would like to know who had the campaign money.
 
There was a plan to try and get her some money to live off of--she hadn't any skills to support herself, it was never much and hardly the millions that people accused her of trying to bilk people out of.
 
Her supporters had money? Which ones? The Botkins were flat broke most of the time, Xenia Leeds had no money of her own, Dassel lost his job when he was arrested traveling through Hesse, the Duke and Duchess of Leuchtenberg were living hand to mouth, Prince Friederich lost everything in the war etc etc. I would like to know who had the campaign money.
Harriet Von Rathlef, she was a writer who always supported AA. Gleb Botkin was also a novelist and illustrator by profession and used his talents to almost triumphant effect, writing numerous articles and a book on the validity of Anderson's claims.

And if Gilliard thought she was a cunning psychopath, why did he (presumably) ask Olga to come to Berlin and see AA? Why did he refer to the unknown patient at Mommsen as "her Imperial Highness, the Grand Duchess"?
He never called her a 'imperial highness' he has always recognized her as an imposter. In his book 'Le Fausse Anastasie' he mentions a lot about Anna Anderson. He said that AA can't be Anastasia, because AA didn't know any English, Russian and French. This is major evidence from Gilliard that AA is NOT Anastasia. She didn't want to prove to Olga and Gilliard that she spoke 'French and Russian'.She perfered to speak in a language Anastasia's wasn't fluent in (German). She said she didn't want to speak the language of the people who murdered her so called 'family'! Also, Olga Alexandrovna stated five reasons Anastasia was NOT AA. It's already been posted.

And why do you think she became famous?
AA, wanted to become famous, and she wanted to claim the romanov's thirty-three billion dollar fortune. Good thing that the imperial family denied AA's claim, especially Ernest. There were many reports about the Romanov wealthly bank accounts, that's another reason AA decided to be the grand duchess. She wanted to get that money. People already knew she was an imposter when she pretended to be Tatiana, and then Sophie told her she was too short to be Tatiana. That's where she went to pretending to be Anastasia. She was around her height of 163 cm. She was a first-rate actress, just as Gilliard said. This is when Sophie Buxhoevedon began to deny her.

So why was nothing done about the New York Anastasia?
People in the USA, didn't know much about the real Anastasia and the Russian imperial family, of course they were going to accept her story. Just like, Harriet she didn't know the imperial family personally, so she had no evidence from Anastasia. AA wanted to go to America so she can have her chance to get fame and people to believe her.

And why do you think she had so many supporters?
These were the same people who never met the real Anastasia.They would believe anything from AA, especially the people who knew very little about Anastasia.Gleb Botkin was one of many sources of obscure information Anderson would recount as "memories" to astound friend and foe alike.
A "lie" that was witnessed by so many others.
This is another thing that hasn't been proven, there aren't any documents proving that. There weren't any photos of Ernest in Russia in 1916. Their's no evidence to support that Ernest was in Russia in 1916. This is another false statement AA made up. Ernest denied this.
 
Peter Kurth may very well believe she was who she said she was. That is his right. He also made money writing and selling a book. People believe all kinds of things. DNA is far more compelling.
 
Harriet Von Rathlef, she was a writer who always supported AA. Gleb Botkin was also a novelist and illustrator by profession and used his talents to almost triumphant effect, writing numerous articles and a book on the validity of Anderson's claims.

Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann was NOT a writer, she was a sculptress. Whatever money she made from her book about AA, she gave to AA to help with her upkeep. Gleb Botkin knew the real Anastasia intimately, and he never ever wavered in his belief that AA was the real thing.

He never called her a 'imperial highness' he has always recognized her as an imposter. In his book 'Le Fausse Anastasie' he mentions a lot about Anna Anderson.

From Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann's book:
It happened on the occasion of the first visit of Mr. Gilliard and his wife that I was able to speak with him alone in the corridor. He was very agitated and exclaimed in French: "Oh dear, how horrible! What has happened to the Grand Duchess Anastasia? She is a wreck! A complete physical wreck! I want to do everything I can to assist the Grand Duchess." Further, he said that if his profession as a teacher had not necessitated his presence in Lausanne, he would have remained here in order that he might co-operate in clearing up the matter. He would go everywhere, speak with all the people who had seen and known the invalid in Berlin during her five years of suffering. He assured me again and again that it was the most dreadful thing he had ever seen. And he would do everything in his power to help the Grand Duchess.
That day he asked Professor Rudnev, in my presence, if he thought that Her Highness would recover, and gave the invalid the title of Grand Duchess.
He left Berlin and said to Herluf Zahle: We are going away without being able to say that she is not the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna.

He said that AA can't be Anastasia, because AA didn't know any English, Russian and French. This is major evidence from Gilliard that AA is NOT Anastasia.

And how did he know that? Olga wrote to Anatole Markov that "she seems to understand Russian..."

She perfered to speak in a language Anastasia's wasn't fluent in (German).

Nor was AA fluent in German.

AA, wanted to become famous, and she wanted to claim the romanov's thirty-three billion dollar fortune.

Oh, she did, did she? How come she always hid from publicity and never hired a lawyer to go after the money? Only her friends fought for her.

People already knew she was an imposter when she pretended to be Tatiana,

She NEVER pretended to be Tatiana. She was erroneously identified as Tatiana.

AA wanted to go to America so she can have her chance to get fame and people to believe her.

Wrong. Gleb Botkin wanted her to come to America, and Xenia Leeds brought her over.

These were the same people who never met the real Anastasia.

Yes, like the Botkins, Xenia Leeds, Captain Dassel, Grand Duke Andrew, Lili Dehn, Alexis Volkov......

Gleb Botkin was one of many sources of obscure information Anderson would recount as "memories" to astound friend and foe alike.

Yes, especially since he met her in 1927, years after Rathlef Keilmann's book had hit the market.

Their's no evidence to support that Ernest was in Russia in 1916. This is another false statement AA made up. Ernest denied this.

Of course Ernest denied this. But that does not mean that he did not go.
 
Didn't Xenia Leeds play with her? Or was that her mother?
 
Didn't Xenia Leeds play with her? Or was that her mother?

Anastasia and Xenia Leeds played together as children, but Xenia did not recognize AA as Anastasia just by seeing her. She came to the conclusion that she had to be Anastasia by the way she acted, and AA also reminded Xenia of several things they had done together as children.
 
Clarifications

With regards to Moritz Furtmayr's study. ChatNoir is correct Furtmayr did use the photograph of "Maria" when studying the faces of AA with photos of Anastasia. See the link below.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/compare.jpg

Yet it was asked how Furtmayr could have gotten the precise measurements indicating exact facial similarity between AA and Anastasia - if indeed the photograph he used was Maria and not Anastasia. If one watches the IN SEARCH OF ANASTASIA documentary one can see how Furtmayr's was able to get his results. Look at the link below
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/furtmayr.jpg

It shows him drawing lines between the mouths of Anastasia and AA. Yet, look closely again at this link:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/compare.jpg

You can see that the eye of "Maria" is dark and blurred, making it impossible to tell where her eye began or ended. In addition note the location of the line with AA's nose and the Grand Duchess's. AA's nose begins well below the line while the Grand Duchess's is exactly on the line. Note also the line intersects the Grand Duchess's mouth at a different place than AA's. By drawing lines through certain features Furtmayr was able to say that the distance between AA's features (Eyes Nose and Mouth) were the exact same as Anastasia's, but as you can see the lines were not intersecting the same points on both faces. So while his measurements may have been the same they are utterly useless pieces of data.

Another example of his work is at the link below:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/furtmayrcompare.jpg

Here he cut photographs of AA and Anastasia in half and pasted them on top of each other. AA is indicated as AAM while Anastasia is AR. Note the discrepancies between the eyes in both sets. Ironically in a newspaper story about another Anastasia claimant who lived in a Soviet insane asylum until her death in 1971, Nadezhda Ivanovna Vasilyeva, they did the same process with (in my opinion) better results. See below
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/kazan2.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/kazan1.jpg

The process is not scientific and once again further reason why Furtmayr's conclusions should not be considered valid.
 
A curious question: I have seen a photo of Furtmayr in a book, and it looked nothing like the Furtmayr on the TV program. I am wondering: Is the program using Furtmayr's work, or did they just re-create something for TV?
 
The only doctor I can find who treated AA at the Kleist's apartment, was dr. Schiler.
As for Baron Kleist's narrative, AA's indignation knew no limit when she heard about the Baron's "lies". So much for that.

Did you know that most people don't consider AA's word to be the end-all truth? Are you calling Dmitri L. a liar? He was there.
 
Peter Kurth may very well believe she was who she said she was. That is his right. He also made money writing and selling a book. People believe all kinds of things. DNA is far more compelling.

This is true. Did you hear the recent news stories about an alleged Bigfoot being found? It turned out to be a rubber suit frozen in a block of ice. Those who claimed to find it owned a Bigfoot expedition company, so naturally they want people to believe in Bigfoot. When someone has fame and fortune because of a legend, it's only natural they don't want it disproven. Sadly, I know a couple people who are already saying it wasn't really a rubber suit, only a government coverup.:ermm:
 
Clarifications
With regards to Moritz Furtmayr's study. ChatNoir is correct Furtmayr did use the photograph of "Maria" when studying the faces of AA with photos of Anastasia. See the link below..
Your pictures and comparisons are very interesting! Have you considered making a website? It would be a good one.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann's book:
It happened on the occasion of the first visit of Mr. Gilliard and his wife that I was able to speak with him alone in the corridor. He was very agitated and exclaimed in French: "Oh dear, how horrible! What has happened to the Grand Duchess Anastasia? She is a wreck! A complete physical wreck! I want to do everything I can to assist the Grand Duchess."

Well, that may or may not be true, coming from a supporter. However, even if it is, this doesn't mean, as you always say, that he accepted her then turned his back on her for money. Did you ever consider that the reason he'd think she was a 'wreck' and 'what has happened' was because SHE DID NOT LOOK LIKE ANASTASIA? At first, he may have thought it could have been her, but damaged, so he gave her a chance. Then later he realized she wasn't Anastasia after all. Need I bring up the lost dirty dog story yet again? You know, the lady took him home, and after cleaning him and spending more time with him realized it wasn't hers after all? It happens! It doesn't mean anyone is 'paid off!'

And how did he know that? Olga wrote to Anatole Markov that "she seems to understand Russian..."

And many, many others said that she did not.



Nor was AA fluent in German.

It was her second language after Kashub Polish, but she sure preferred it to English, Russian or French all her life, something the real AN would not have done.


Oh, she did, did she? How come she always hid from publicity and never hired a lawyer to go after the money? Only her friends fought for her.

Would they have been 'friends' if there wasn't a huge profit to be made?


She NEVER pretended to be Tatiana. She was erroneously identified as Tatiana.

Yet, she did absolutely nothing to deny it or discourage it until she was pronounced 'too short' by Bux. She went along with it when Zina T. accepted her as "Tatiana."


Gleb Botkin wanted her to come to America, and Xenia Leeds brought her over.

Of course Gleb wanted her to come to America so she could get more fame and fortune. He was a writer in NY, and he knew how the media would make a darling of her. Also, the wealthy NY socialites who accepted her without question wouldn't have known the real AN from Greta Garbo if they met her face to face, so it was easier to pass her off as a generic 'Grand Duchess' when there weren't so many people who knew the real AN around to 'cause trouble' for her. Gleb arranged for Leeds to keep her once she got there, but when she arrived, Leeds was on an extended trip. Sure sounds anxious to see her 'cousin'!


Yes, like the Botkins, Xenia Leeds, Captain Dassel, Grand Duke Andrew, Lili Dehn, Alexis Volkov......

How many times are you going to drool out this old list? It's been refuted many, many times.


Yes, especially since he met her in 1927, years after Rathlef Keilmann's book had hit the market.

His sister Tatiana was with her before, and we will never know what contact they had before the official meeting. If you expect me to swallow that Tatiana didn't to quite a bit to help in Gleb's acceptance, I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.



Of course Ernest denied this. But that does not mean that he did not go.

The main issue is, the story of the alleged trip existed in 2 books prior to AA mentioning it, which means the story WAS out there already, and she did NOT have any 'inside info' as you like to claim.
 
Did you know that most people don't consider AA's word to be the end-all truth? Are you calling Dmitri L. a liar? He was there.

Yes, he was there. And he said that Kostritsky made a written testimony against AA. Big lie. Kostritsky never testified against AA.
Much of the rest of his testimony is contrary to that of his father's.
 
Well, that may or may not be true, coming from a supporter.

4 people, actually, you have to count in Professor Rudnev plus Herluf and Lillian Zahle.

However, even if it is, this doesn't mean, as you always say, that he accepted her then turned his back on her for money. Did you ever consider that the reason he'd think she was a 'wreck' and 'what has happened' was because SHE DID NOT LOOK LIKE ANASTASIA?

Well, if he was certain that she was not Anastasia, why did he ask Olga to come to Berlin? And why did he leave Berlin without being able to say that she was NOT Anastasia?

At first, he may have thought it could have been her, but damaged, so he gave her a chance. Then later he realized she wasn't Anastasia after all. Need I bring up the lost dirty dog story yet again? You know, the lady took him home, and after cleaning him and spending more time with him realized it wasn't hers after all? It happens! It doesn't mean anyone is 'paid off!'

Well, your lady at least spent some time with the dog, while Gilliard and Olga never saw AA again. They just cut off all correspondence and denounced her in January of 1926, more than 3 months after they apparently had recognized her. And verified things that she told Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann as being correct.

And many, many others said that she did not.

And who are these many, many others? And how did they KNOW that she did not understand Russian?


It was her second language after Kashub Polish, but she sure preferred it to English, Russian or French all her life, something the real AN would not have done.

German was FS's first language. According to the family, she spoke good German and a little Polish (Kashoubian). Gerda said she had forgotten her own "Polish" due to disuse.

Would they have been 'friends' if there wasn't a huge profit to be made?

What profit are we talking about? The only friends who were mentioned in AA's will, were the Botkins. Gleb Botkin made arrangements for any possible money coming from AA to be given to the American Red Cross. So much for enriching himself.

Yet, she did absolutely nothing to deny it or discourage it until she was pronounced 'too short' by Bux. She went along with it when Zina T. accepted her as "Tatiana."

She guarded her identity all her life. But she did tell Thea Malinovsky in the fall of 1921 who she was. She told her about the last night in Ekaterinburg and the jewels sewn into their clothing.

Of course Gleb wanted her to come to America so she could get more fame and fortune.

Fame and fortune was not on anyone's mind. AA was not a publicity seeker, refused interviews and asked Botkin not to write about her.

He was a writer in NY, and he knew how the media would make a darling of her.

Some darling she was!

Also, the wealthy NY socialites who accepted her without question wouldn't have known the real AN from Greta Garbo if they met her face to face, so it was easier to pass her off as a generic 'Grand Duchess' when there weren't so many people who knew the real AN around to 'cause trouble' for her.

Except for Mrs. Derfelden who "recognized" AA due to the great likeness with Anastasia's grandmother.

Gleb arranged for Leeds to keep her once she got there, but when she arrived, Leeds was on an extended trip. Sure sounds anxious to see her 'cousin'!

Don't forget now that Xenia Leeds "had no money of her own"......

How many times are you going to drool out this old list? It's been refuted many, many times.

Sorry, but that list will be dragged out every time you forget. Refuted? By whom?

His sister Tatiana was with her before, and we will never know what contact they had before the official meeting. If you expect me to swallow that Tatiana didn't to quite a bit to help in Gleb's acceptance, I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.

Of course Gleb Botkin knew of his sister's acceptance of AA, that was never a secret. But he was still very sceptical to the whole thing, and had made up a lot of questions to ask AA when he met her to make sure she was the real thing. But the first time they met, they both recognized each other, and the questions were no longer necessary.

The main issue is, the story of the alleged trip existed in 2 books prior to AA mentioning it, which means the story WAS out there already, and she did NOT have any 'inside info' as you like to claim.

So it is 2 books now, what is the name of the other one? And yes, I am sure AA was a steady guest in Schiller's Buchladen on Kurfürstendamm and third where she bought books she could not read with money that she did not have. She could not read German (Fraktur).
 
4 people, actually, you have to count in Professor Rudnev plus Herluf and Lillian Zahle.

Which equals a lot of questionable second and third hand alleged rumor comments that can't be verfied.



Well, if he was certain that she was not Anastasia, why did he ask Olga to come to Berlin? And why did he leave Berlin without being able to say that she was NOT Anastasia?

I told you, like with the dog, she was so beat up he wanted to make sure.



And verified things that she told Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann as being correct.

She couldn't verify anything since she was FS.



And who are these many, many others? And how did they KNOW that she did not understand Russian?

Need I name them? Olga A, Felix Y, etc.


German was FS's first language. According to the family, she spoke good German and a little Polish (Kashoubian). Gerda said she had forgotten her own "Polish" due to disuse.

AA used German over the languages AA knew much better, while AA used the language FS knew best. Suspicous, huh?



What profit are we talking about? The only friends who were mentioned in AA's will, were the Botkins.

And it was they who instigated the case. Look, no one is ignorant, and even blind people can see that the lawsuit was over MONEY!!! If it weren't for the alleged fortune, no one would have given a hoot and you know it. So don't pretend no one was after money, it's not realistic. And don't bother to say she only wanted her 'name' because it was the 'name' that was allegedly = to the money. It was all about the money, for everyone, no way around it.

Gleb Botkin made arrangements for any possible money coming from AA to be given to the American Red Cross. So much for enriching himself.

That was the will, no way of proving that money won during her lifetime could and would have been routed to him in some form!



She guarded her identity all her life. But she did tell Thea Malinovsky in the fall of 1921 who she was.

NO proof other than one person's word, and she couldn't even get the date right. She told the paper 1922 and you say they lied, I say she didn't even know because it never happened. I told you, I do NOT believe your nurse story and will not argue over it again! AA made NO claim to be anyone until Clara P. said she was Tatiana, then switched to AN when she was turned down for being too short. This has all been rehashed to death.

She told her about the last night in Ekaterinburg and the jewels sewn into their clothing.

Let's just say, I don't believe this at all. And the book "Last Days of the Romanovs" was out in 1920 and told all about this. I've even posted you the direct quotes.



Fame and fortune was not on anyone's mind.

GIVE ME A BREAK

AA was not a publicity seeker, refused interviews and asked Botkin not to write about her.

Of course she didn't want to do any interviews, she was afraid she'd slip up and say something that gave herself away. This is why she let her 'friends' do all the talking so they could censor and embellish as necessary.


Except for Mrs. Derfelden who "recognized" AA due to the great likeness with Anastasia's grandmother.

But, the real AN looked nothing like Marie F.

Sorry, but that list will be dragged out every time you forget. Refuted? By whom?

Me, other posters, other books, history itself


Of course Gleb Botkin knew of his sister's acceptance of AA, that was never a secret. But he was still very sceptical to the whole thing, and had made up a lot of questions to ask AA when he met her to make sure she was the real thing. But the first time they met, they both recognized each other, and the questions were no longer necessary.

There is no way to prove if this is how it really happened. I don't think it was. Of course we'll never know, but your slant can't be taken as fact.



So it is 2 books now, what is the name of the other one? And yes, I am sure AA was a steady guest in Schiller's Buchladen on Kurfürstendamm and third where she bought books she could not read with money that she did not have. She could not read German (Fraktur).

There was of course
B. Himmelstjerna, Im Angesicht der Revolution, 1922, publisher Steeler

and a Russian book, I do not have its name. And of course she read German, if she didn't she'd have been illiterate since it was the only useable language she had! AN wouldn't have been able to read German, but AA was FS, who could read German. Anyway, any of the supporters could have had access to the book and told her about it, whether she read it or not. It was around in Germany just the time her claim came to light. Clara P. had a collection of reading material, who knows what all was under her bed!
 
Of course it's contrary to his father's, because his father was obviously in on the scam, (or a complete fool) and he was, apparently, disgusted by the whole thing. I believe Dmitri. Here, he even tells us when and where she learned her pathetic English!

When Mrs. Tschiakovsky arrived in Seeon she did not speak or understand Russian; she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon; she did not speak or understand French. She spoke only German with a north German accent. Grand Duchess Anastasia, on the contrary, spoke always Russian to her father, English to her mother, understood and spoke French and did not speak any German.

This explains why she didn't understand English when Olga A. spoke it to her, yet she knew some by the time she came to NY. While you will call this a 'lie' I call it valuable inside info from an eyewitness, and info that, if found before, has not been brought to light by those who would have you believe AA to be AN. This is important evidence of her being coached in languages.
 
Which equals a lot of questionable second and third hand alleged rumor comments that can't be verfied.

Sorry, these are not rumors, but words written down as they happened.


I told you, like with the dog, she was so beat up he wanted to make sure.

Well, if Gilliard and Olga had wanted to be so sure, why did they not come back for a second and third look before they made the decision to abandon her? (Olga: "We shall not abandon you. You are no longer alone. Longing to see you.")

She couldn't verify anything since she was FS.

What I am telling you, is that Gilliard corresponded with Harriet Rathlef Keilmann and verified things that AA had told Mrs. Keilmann. Of course, Mrs. Keilmann could not verify anything herself.

Need I name them? Olga A, Felix Y, etc.

Olga to Anatole Mordvinov in a letter: "Curiously enough, she seems to understand Russian, but prefers to answer in German."
Felix talked to her in the four usual languages, and she answered him in German.
Try again.


AA used German over the languages AA knew much better, while AA used the language FS knew best. Suspicous, huh?

Yes, I am very suspicious, because FS was a German citizen and spoke good German, while AA spoke a "terrible muddled German with a heavy Russian accent."


And it was they who instigated the case. Look, no one is ignorant, and even blind people can see that the lawsuit was over MONEY!!!

The lawsuit was over recognition. If she had been legally recognized as Anastasia, there MIGHT have been some money due her, but nobody could find any proof of a hidden fortune.

If it weren't for the alleged fortune, no one would have given a hoot and you know it.

No, actually, I do not.

So don't pretend no one was after money, it's not realistic. And don't bother to say she only wanted her 'name' because it was the 'name' that was allegedly = to the money. It was all about the money, for everyone, no way around it.

Maybe you have some proof for this?

That was the will, no way of proving that money won during her lifetime could and would have been routed to him in some form!

And where do you find any proof of that except in your mind?


NO proof other than one person's word,

Actually, two persons. You forget Dr. Chemnitz.

and she couldn't even get the date right. She told the paper 1922 and you say they lied, I say she didn't even know because it never happened. I told you, I do NOT believe your nurse story and will not argue over it again!

She got the date right, there was no other possibility since in fall of 1922, AA was mainly staying with Clara Peuthert and nowhere near Dalldorf.

AA made NO claim to be anyone until Clara P. said she was Tatiana, then switched to AN when she was turned down for being too short. This has all been rehashed to death.

AA made the claim to nurse Malinovsky in 1921 according to testimony from Thea Malinovski and Dr. Chemnitz in Hamburg.

Let's just say, I don't believe this at all. And the book "Last Days of the Romanovs" was out in 1920 and told all about this. I've even posted you the direct quotes.

You may believe or not believe what you want. And when was "Last Days of the Romanovs" translated to German?

Of course she didn't want to do any interviews, she was afraid she'd slip up and say something that gave herself away.

So why was she not afraid of talking to Olga and Shura and Gilliard and Grand Duke Andrew and Xenia Leeds and the Botkins and others that could have exposed her very fast?

This is why she let her 'friends' do all the talking so they could censor and embellish as necessary.

She did not "let" anybody do the talking, she was happiest when they said nothing, even if it was in her defense. Just see how mad she was at Harriet Rathlef Keilmann when she published her book.

But, the real AN looked nothing like Marie F.

Maybe in your eyes.


Me, other posters, other books, history itself

Could you be a little more specific?


There is no way to prove if this is how it really happened. I don't think it was. Of course we'll never know, but your slant can't be taken as fact.

My slant? Read Gleb Botkin's book.

There was of course
B. Himmelstjerna, Im Angesicht der Revolution, 1922, publisher Steeler
and a Russian book, I do not have its name.

So AA can read Russian now?

And of course she read German, if she didn't she'd have been illiterate since it was the only useable language she had!

She did not read Fraktur!

AN wouldn't have been able to read German, but AA was FS, who could read German.

From her workbooks at school, we know that she was able to read and write German with fewer mistakes than Russian.

Anyway, any of the supporters could have had access to the book and told her about it, whether she read it or not. It was around in Germany just the time her claim came to light. Clara P. had a collection of reading material, who knows what all was under her bed!

Yes, I am sure that Clara Peuthert had a huge library.
The question about Ernie came up one day when Harriet Rathlef Keilmann asked AA if she had ever met Ernest von Hesse. AA said, yes, he was Mama's brother and called uncle Ernie.
- When did you last see him?
- During the war, at home with us in Russia.
Frau Rathlef then told AA that it would be impossible for Ernest to have been in Russia during the war, she had to be mistaken.
AA got angry and said: Yes, he was there. He came in secrecy to talk about a separate peace with Germany. He even told Mama: That is no longer Princess Sunshine.
When Amy Smith mentioned the incident to Count Hardenberg in Darmstadt (Ernie refused to meet with her), he "hit the ceiling". Frau Rathlef realized that AA had hit on a sore spot, and did not mention anything about it publicly. Not until an article from Darmstadt mentioned that The Entente Press had written about it, and that was where they assumed that AA had heard about it. Of course, they could not say what date and what publication it was mentioned in.
 
Of course it's contrary to his father's, because his father was obviously in on the scam, (or a complete fool) and he was, apparently, disgusted by the whole thing.

The Duke of Leuchtenberg was in fact the man who believed the FS story. That's why he told AA that an old friend was coming to see her when La Wingender did her famous "identification".

I believe Dmitri. Here, he even tells us when and where she learned her pathetic English!

Of course you believe Dmitri. In spite of his lie about Kostritsky.

When Mrs. Tschiakovsky arrived in Seeon she did not speak or understand Russian;

And how did he KNOW that she did not understand Russian?His own sister, Baroness Meller, was the one who applauded AA for "beginning to speak Russian again."

she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon;

And how come she read English books at Seeon, and the Duke said that she spoke, read and wrote English?

she did not speak or understand French.


Again, how did he KNOW that?

She spoke only German with a north German accent. Grand Duchess Anastasia, on the contrary, spoke always Russian to her father, English to her mother, understood and spoke French and did not speak any German.


A North German accent? I have never heard that one before. And how did Dmitri know about Anastasia not speaking any German, he never met her.

This explains why she didn't understand English when Olga A. spoke it to her, yet she knew some by the time she came to NY. While you will call this a 'lie' I call it valuable inside info from an eyewitness, and info that, if found before, has not been brought to light by those who would have you believe AA to be AN. This is important evidence of her being coached in languages.

And may we have the name of her English teacher? And her Russian teacher?
Thank you.
 
AA's claim

Sorry, these are not rumors, but words written down as they happened.

Written down, yes, fact, not proven.

Well, if Gilliard and Olga had wanted to be so sure, why did they not come back for a second and third look before they made the decision to abandon her? (Olga: "We shall not abandon you. You are no longer alone. Longing to see you.")

Perhaps her lack of Russian, English and French skills helped convince them. And I'm not getting into another Olga quote match, though I do have way more. Whatever she said when she wasn't sure stopped mattering when she realized it wasn't her. She even felt sorry for AA as a claimant who thought she was AN until that hateful letter from Gleb.



What I am telling you, is that Gilliard corresponded with Harriet Rathlef Keilmann and verified things that AA had told Mrs. Keilmann. Of course, Mrs. Keilmann could not verify anything herself.

So we'll never know who gave her the answers!


Olga to Anatole Mordvinov in a letter: "Curiously enough, she seems to understand Russian, but prefers to answer in German."
Felix talked to her in the four usual languages, and she answered him in German.
Try again.

No, they both stated clearly that she could only use German. Yes Felix used all four yet she only used German. Olga said "my nieces knew no German...German was never used in the family.."



Yes, I am very suspicious, because FS was a German citizen and spoke good German, while AA spoke a "terrible muddled German with a heavy Russian accent."

Russians of today, hearing the awful accent on NOVA, declared her accent Polish.


The lawsuit was over recognition. If she had been legally recognized as Anastasia, there MIGHT have been some money due her, but nobody could find any proof of a hidden fortune.

Recognition FOR MONEY! From the time she mentioned the alleged huge Brit bank account, everyone had their fingers in the pie. Sorry, NO ONE is naive enough to believe no one wanted money, and only wanted to help poor little AA. Had there not been the idea of money, her story would have died in the gutter.



She got the date right, there was no other possibility since in fall of 1922, AA was mainly staying with Clara Peuthert and nowhere near Dalldorf.

I knew this was coming. Sigh. So she forgot what dates she worked there, people do that! Then after she said 1922 someone told her she'd better correct it to predate the Clara declaration, and she blamed it on the newspaper making the 'mistake.' Come on, I wasn't born yesterday.



AA made the claim to nurse Malinovsky in 1921 according to testimony from Thea Malinovski and Dr. Chemnitz in Hamburg.

Yeah, yeah, so what. It never happened.



You may believe or not believe what you want. And when was "Last Days of the Romanovs" translated to German?

Doesn't matter, because the emigres' who came to see her knew English and French too. Loads of people came to see her, we'll never know who told her what and when, but it all came from somewhere else since AA was FS.



So why was she not afraid of talking to Olga and Shura and Gilliard and Grand Duke Andrew and Xenia Leeds and the Botkins and others that could have exposed her very fast?

Some she thought she could trick, the others, she avoided. She did a lot of face hiding and going under sheets. She was afraid. One of Xenia's grandsons said "my father was raised with the real AN. AA would never see him."



She did not "let" anybody do the talking, she was happiest when they said nothing, even if it was in her defense. Just see how mad she was at Harriet Rathlef Keilmann when she published her book.

She was probably worried that the farther it went, the more likely she was to get caught and be in trouble for fraud. It's very telling that she never wanted to speak for herself. She was afraid of goofing.


My slant? Read Gleb Botkin's book.

Okay, HIS slant. And a very fictional one



So AA can read Russian now?

NO! Like I said before, most of her supporters were educated with several languages and could tell her.



She did not read Fraktur!

FS/AA read it, not AN.



From her workbooks at school, we know that she was able to read and write German with fewer mistakes than Russian.

You can say this a thousand times, (though we've never seen any proof those books even exist) yet you completely ignore the repeated eyewitness accounts of those who knew her who say AN SPOKE NO GERMAN! And no, lessons do not necessarily mean a thing, I know many, many people who took several years of a language and now can't speak a word.

Yes, I am sure that Clara Peuthert had a huge library.

We don't know, do we? But most likely it was one of the emigres', or Rathlef.

The question about Ernie came up one day when Harriet Rathlef Keilmann asked AA if she had ever met Ernest von Hesse.

The story is well known, but it still means nothing, considering the rumor was already going around, and there's no proof the trip happpened. It's YOUR slant on the story that Ernie set out to destroy a real AN over this. The reason he was against her was because a stupid faker was pretending to be his dead niece and trying to get money from it. How would you feel, if you had a murdered niece and that happened?
 
Of course you believe Dmitri. In spite of his lie about Kostritsky.

How do you know it's a lie? Perhaps he did send something in writing, and it was ditched due to its negativity toward her case.



did he KNOW that she did not understand Russian?His own sister, Baroness Meller, was the one who applauded AA for "beginning to speak Russian again." ..d how come she read English books at Seeon, and the Duke said that she spoke, read and wrote English?
Again, how did he KNOW that?

It's easy to tell a person doesn't know a language. You are trying to maintain reasonable doubt, however, there is no proof at all AA knew any English before Seeon, and any French at all.

German accent? I have never heard that one before. And how did Dmitri know about Anastasia not speaking any German, he never met her.

Well now you have. Perhaps he talked to many who did.


And may we have the name of her English teacher? And her Russian teacher?
Thank you.

I guess it's not enough for you that we have proof she took lessons!

May I see the proof she knew English before Seeon? There is none. Look, this is really a stupid game. It's very clear that AA was not AN, and did not know the languages AN knew. Even in her old age her English stank and she used no French or Russian. Because all the bodies have now been found, not even the intestine switch theory is a factor anymore. AA was not AN, and never will be.

Unless you can prove all the tests were fake, including the 2007 bones, in all three countries' labs? I'm waiting!
 
Written down, yes, fact, not proven.

We have 4 witnesses here, and you refuse to believe them because it does not jive with your own view. But you cling to Dmitri Leuchenberg's words even after he has been proven to tell a lie. This tells a lot about you.


Perhaps her lack of Russian, English and French skills helped convince them. And I'm not getting into another Olga quote match, though I do have way more. Whatever she said when she wasn't sure stopped mattering when she realized it wasn't her. She even felt sorry for AA as a claimant who thought she was AN until that hateful letter from Gleb.

Please do get into a quote match, but make sure that Olga, not Ian Vorres is the one you are quoting.
That "hateful" letter from Gleb was in response to the "hateful" Copenhagen Statement, signed by 12 people, of whom only Olga had seen AA.

So we'll never know who gave her the answers!

What answers? She would tell Frau Rahtlef Keilmann details from the IF life in Russia, and she in turn wrote to Gilliard to verify the accuracies of AA's stories. And he would verify or correct the statements until the end of January 1926 when he suddenly switched sides and started calling himself "The Representative of the House of Hesse."


[/quote]No, they both stated clearly that she could only use German. Yes Felix used all four yet she only used German. Olga said "my nieces knew no German...German was never used in the family.."[/quote]

Yes, she used German, but UNDERSTOOD Russian and English. Got it?

Russians of today, hearing the awful accent on NOVA, declared her accent Polish.

And others declared her accent as coming from St. Petersburg.

Recognition FOR MONEY! From the time she mentioned the alleged huge Brit bank account, everyone had their fingers in the pie. Sorry, NO ONE is naive enough to believe no one wanted money, and only wanted to help poor little AA. Had there not been the idea of money, her story would have died in the gutter.

It would, wouldn't it. She mentioned the bank account in 1925, but no lawsuit was filed until 1927. And at first AA did not want any suit to be filed, all she wanted, was that the putative fortune in England would be tied up so that her aunts could not get to it. Botkin managed to do this with the help of Edward Fallows. Grand Duchess Xenia went to the Bank of England on July 18, 1928, ten years after the murder of the IF, and she was allegedly told that no information was available until the case of identification was cleared up. She yelled at Xenia Leeds who in turn yelled at Botkin. So if you want to find out who was after the money, you can start with Grand Duchess Xenia. When AA heard that her aunt had filed lawsuits in Europe in an attempt to find the Tsar's fortune, she gave the assent to Fallows to file suit for her recognition as well.

I knew this was coming. Sigh. So she forgot what dates she worked there, people do that! Then after she said 1922 someone told her she'd better correct it to predate the Clara declaration, and she blamed it on the newspaper making the 'mistake.' Come on, I wasn't born yesterday.

I don't think you are able to understand a very simple fact: AA left Dalldorf in May of 1922, so it is impossible that she could have told nurse Malinovski ANYthing in fall of 1922. Besides, the protocols at Dalldorf confirmed the dates of nurse Malinovski's hiring.

Doesn't matter, because the emigres' who came to see her knew English and French too. Loads of people came to see her, we'll never know who told her what and when, but it all came from somewhere else since AA was FS.

I guess the whole world traipsed through the livingroom at the Kleist's from May till August, 1922. And AA had the most fantastic memory and hung on to every word.

Some she thought she could trick, the others, she avoided. She did a lot of face hiding and going under sheets. She was afraid. One of Xenia's grandsons said "my father was raised with the real AN. AA would never see him."

So, she tricked them, huh? She must have been very good at that.
As for the hiding and going under sheets, the only one she did that with, was Isa Buxhoeveden, whom she suspected of betrayal.
As for Xenia's sons, there was never a question of her refusing to see them. They never asked. Being the offspring of her opposition, AA asked Xenia Leeds not to invite them to the estate when she was there. One morning, Xenia had one of them over for tennis, thinking that AA would never know. But AA was furious, she heard the voice and recognized "one of the cousins."
Alexander's grandson saw her, though, and she immediately identified him as a "descendant of Grand Duke Alexander. I recognize him on his ocean-like walk." She reminded him of Xenia and Irina Yussupov.

She was probably worried that the farther it went, the more likely she was to get caught and be in trouble for fraud. It's very telling that she never wanted to speak for herself. She was afraid of goofing.

Oh, she was, was she. I can only quote Lili Dehn here: "She never made a mistake."

Okay, HIS slant. And a very fictional one

Yes, you would know, of course.

FS/AA read it, not AN.

In a signed report on her general condition, Dr. Theodore Eitel stated that AA could not read Fraktur.

You can say this a thousand times, (though we've never seen any proof those books even exist)

So you think the judges at the Hamburg court dealt with information that was not there?

yet you completely ignore the repeated eyewitness accounts of those who knew her who say AN SPOKE NO GERMAN!

And I spoke no German at home, and still speak no German at home. And still I am fairly fluent.


The story is well known, but it still means nothing, considering the rumor was already going around, and there's no proof the trip happpened.

Lots of witnesses, but the court did not accept it as true.

It's YOUR slant on the story that Ernie set out to destroy a real AN over this. The reason he was against her was because a stupid faker was pretending to be his dead niece and trying to get money from it. How would you feel, if you had a murdered niece and that happened?

MY slant? How about Botkin, Rathlef Keilmann, Grand Duke Andrew etc.
And why did he then wait until AA spilled the beans about his alleged trip? And why did he not go after the other claimants?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How do you know it's a lie? Perhaps he did send something in writing, and it was ditched due to its negativity toward her case.

Nice try. Kostritski never testified against AA. How could he, he did not bring his dental charts from Russia.


You are trying to maintain reasonable doubt, however, there is no proof at all AA knew any English before Seeon, and any French at all.

See interview with Bella Cohen. See Harriet Rathlef Keilmann, page 233. See statement from Professor Rudnev.

Well now you have. Perhaps he talked to many who did.

Aha, hearsay.

I guess it's not enough for you that we have proof she took lessons!

Yes, mother Goose rhymes with Faith Lavington!

May I see the proof she knew English before Seeon?

See above.

Unless you can prove all the tests were fake, including the 2007 bones, in all three countries' labs? I'm waiting!

I think we all are.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nice try. Kostritski never testified against AA. How could he, he did not bring his dental charts from Russia.

I never said in court, but he did say it!


See interview with Bella Cohen. See Harriet Rathlef Keilmann, page 233. See statement from Professor Rudnev.

So once again, it all comes down to whom you choose to believe. However, now that DNA has proven AA a fake, we know who was telling the truth and who was right and wrong.


Yes, mother Goose rhymes with Faith Lavington!

A lot of people use such things to learn a language, today it's TV shows.

See above.

That's not proof!


I think we all are.

Only those who refuse to accept reality. I accept it, I want to know your reasons for denying it (other than just your desire for AA to be AN)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We have 4 witnesses here, and you refuse to believe them because it does not jive with your own view. But you cling to Dmitri Leuchenberg's words even after he has been proven to tell a lie. This tells a lot about you.

He did not tell a lie, you took it to mean court instead of just reporting it. He was a valuable insider, because other insiders were too blinded by hope, or greed, to see that she was nothing like AN, and all the holes in the story, but he did. I bet there's a lot more out there, but it's never been brought to light because most of those who write about AA don't like negative things to be seen, so they don't use it, just as any lawyer isn't going to use things that hurt his case.


That "hateful" letter from Gleb was in response to the "hateful" Copenhagen Statement, signed by 12 people, of whom only Olga had seen AA.

There was no excuse for its cruelty and rudeness and false accusations.



What answers? She would tell Frau Rahtlef Keilmann details from the IF life in Russia, and she in turn wrote to Gilliard to verify the accuracies of AA's stories.

Don't you see how weak and loose this is? They could have gotten the stuff from anyone, and even done research in all the books available at the time.

And he would verify or correct the statements until the end of January 1926 when he suddenly switched sides and started calling himself "The Representative of the House of Hesse."

He may have felt like a fool for ever being duped, and wanted to make up for it by clearing the name of the real, dead, AN.


[/quote]
Yes, she used German, but UNDERSTOOD Russian and English. Got it? [/quote]

No, because AN USED Russian and English, and understood very little German.


And others declared her accent as coming from St. Petersburg.

"Others" must be trying to help her cause. Anyone from St. P would laugh and be disgusted anyone couldn't tell the difference. Go ahead, play her tape for anyone in or from Russia!



It would, wouldn't it. She mentioned the bank account in 1925, but no lawsuit was filed until 1927.

I guess she thought she may be able to hoodwink Olga and when she found out it didn't work she and her supporters had to go for the throat the hard way.

And at first AA did not want any suit to be filed, all she wanted, was that the putative fortune in England would be tied up so that her aunts could not get to it. Botkin managed to do this with the help of Edward Fallows. Grand Duchess Xenia went to the Bank of England on July 18, 1928, ten years after the murder of the IF, and she was allegedly told that no information was available until the case of identification was cleared up. She yelled at Xenia Leeds who in turn yelled at Botkin. So if you want to find out who was after the money, you can start with Grand Duchess Xenia. When AA heard that her aunt had filed lawsuits in Europe in an attempt to find the Tsar's fortune, she gave the assent to Fallows to file suit for her recognition as well.

My gosh, how rude! No wonder they fought her so long! She was a crazy faker and didn't deserve any money. I'd have fought her too if it were my dead niece.



I don't think you are able to understand a very simple fact: AA left Dalldorf in May of 1922, so it is impossible that she could have told nurse Malinovski ANYthing in fall of 1922. Besides, the protocols at Dalldorf confirmed the dates of nurse Malinovski's hiring.

I already told you: people get dates wrong, and don't keep up with when stuff happened. I have a good memory for such things, but most don't. People call me up and ask me what month/year something happened, most don't remember. It's clear to see what happened, she got it wrong, one of the other AA backers told her she'd better try to fix it so she blamed it on the paper. Very, very weak link here.


I guess the whole world traipsed through the livingroom at the Kleist's from May till August, 1922. And AA had the most fantastic memory and hung on to every word.

I guess her 'fantasic memory' wasn't good enough to recall the real life of AN, only a few relayed details she often got wrong.



So, she tricked them, huh? She must have been very good at that.
As for the hiding and going under sheets, the only one she did that with, was Isa Buxhoeveden, whom she suspected of betrayal.

PLEASE! This excuse has worn more than thin. She was terrified of her, because she knew Bux knew AN well enough to expose her. Once she did, AA had to try to destroy her rep to discredit her. She was a nasty person that way.

Sigh. I'm not even going to bother to answer the rest. It's just a bunch of he said this, she said that, and of course supporters are going to say more favorable things. People on the other side said otherwise, but you call them liars. The only thing solid is the DNA and you reject that too. It's plain as day you just WANT to believe, but it's useless now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
He did not tell a lie,

Yes, he did. Kostritsky NEVER testified against AA. All he said was: Would I have left the Grand Duchess' teeth in that condition. And that was the end of it.

you took it to mean court instead of just reporting it. He was a valuable insider, because other insiders were too blinded by hope, or greed, to see that she was nothing like AN, and all the holes in the story, but he did. I bet there's a lot more out there, but it's never been brought to light because most of those who write about AA don't like negative things to be seen, so they don't use it, just as any lawyer isn't going to use things that hurt his case.

And you are ranting on, as usual.


There was no excuse for its cruelty and rudeness and false accusations.

Oh yes, there was plenty of excuse. If the Copenhagen Statement had gone unanswered, AA would have been expelled from the US as an impostor. The silence from the Romanovs after Gleb's attack indicated to the Immigration Service that AA may be genuine after all.


Don't you see how weak and loose this is? They could have gotten the stuff from anyone, and even done research in all the books available at the time.

Yes, I am sure AA picked out faces from photos and named them after heavy research in --- what books were those again?

He may have felt like a fool for ever being duped, and wanted to make up for it by clearing the name of the real, dead, AN.

Oh, is that so. And why then run around as "The Representative of the House of Hesse"? I think it is very clear whose bidding he did.

No, because AN USED Russian and English, and understood very little German.

Yes, AN used Russian and English, but you have no inkling of how much German she understood. AA clearly spoke English and Russian, but preferred to use the little German she knew.

"Others" must be trying to help her cause. Anyone from St. P would laugh and be disgusted anyone couldn't tell the difference. Go ahead, play her tape for anyone in or from Russia!

This has already been discussed, and everybody has their own opinions.

I guess she thought she may be able to hoodwink Olga and when she found out it didn't work she and her supporters had to go for the throat the hard way.

Go for the throat? I think there were others who went for the throat more than AA ever did.

My gosh, how rude! No wonder they fought her so long! She was a crazy faker and didn't deserve any money. I'd have fought her too if it were my dead niece.

How rude? You mean Xenia? As Xenia Leeds said to gleb regarding Olga and Xenia: "What they want to offer is this: if you allow them to inherit Anastasia's money and agree that she is not to be acknowledged formally, they will, in return, give Anastasia something out of that money and send her to some quiet retreat in Europe. You (Gleb) personally will also be taken care of."
Well, we all know how that ended.

I already told you: people get dates wrong, and don't keep up with when stuff happened. It's clear to see what happened, she got it wrong, one of the other AA backers told her she'd better try to fix it so she blamed it on the paper. Very, very weak link here.

I still don't think you understand the point here: AA was nowhere near Dalldorf in the fall of 1922 and could not possibly have told nurse Malinovsky anything. Do you understand that much?
As for the hiring date of Malinovsky, it is clearly written in the protocols at Dalldorf. You get nowhere with your accusations. The Nachtausgabe had their own agenda and wrote the date as fall of 1922, erroneously or wilfully. The manuscript was never restored to nurse Malinovsky, so she had no way to find out who made the error.

Same to you.

Not at all. I always explain my reasons.


I guess her 'fantasic memory' wasn't good enough to recall the real life of AN, only a few relayed details she often got wrong.

Only a few details? Obviously you have not read much about this case. She had a wealth of information, and she did not often get it wrong. You better be prepared to supply some back up here.

PLEASE! This excuse has worn more than thin. She was terrified of her, because she knew Bux knew AN well enough to expose her. Once she did, AA had to try to destroy her rep to discredit her. She was a nasty person that way.

And she knew that Olga, Volkov, Andrew, the Botkins etc. could expose her as well. The funny thing is, she did something of the sort when Rachmaninoff came to see her as well, and he never knew Anastasia. But she did not like him because he did not support Russia in its need, but was making it big in America while his countrymen starved. As for Buxhoeveden's betrayal, it is duly noted in the Russian archives. I have already posted it.

[/quote]Sigh. I'm not even going to bother to answer the rest. It's just a bunch of he said this, she said that, and of course supporters are going to say more favorable things.[/quote]

Funny how much you believe Dmitri when he says.....

People on the other side said otherwise, but you call them liars. The only thing solid is the DNA and you reject that too. It's plain as day you just WANT to believe, but it's useless now.

When people are caught lying, what are they?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom