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  #1861  
Old 09-25-2008, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
To see a CLAIMANT!

I'm sure claimants did her health no good.
Especially when she was convinced that the whole family was still alive.

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Yes it would, because of you trying to resurrect a legend proven wrong.
I think the jury is still out on that one.

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Then tell me how and why the intestine and hair are not hers? And the bone fragments not the fourth grand duchess? If you 'refuse to speculate', you are lower down than even a conspiracy theory, and have NOTHING other than your own odd desire for AA to not be FS.
My desire is only to discuss the mystery and correct all your incorrect statements. As for the bone fragments, I am still waiting for the results from the various labs.

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Only for whacky or unrealistic people. It's never been taken to court because there's no need! Science has spoken! And the fact that the tests were funded by AA supporters who don't want to pay to prove she wasn't AN, and must feel they can't prove she was or they'd have done it by now.
So why waste your time on us wacky and unrealistic people? Have you nothing better to do?

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Oh really? How are you privy to his medical info? I share one with my sister. It's true there are only 8 blood types, so a match is not as strong of proof as DNA, however, it is another piece of info in favor of AA being FS.
But what about the shoe size?

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It's been refuted many times.
Then please let us know when.

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You just can't stand that somebody who knew AN so well laughed at your claimant and you have to try to discredit and damage the rep of a dead woman.
I don't think Buxhoeveden laughed very much after seeing AA. Schwabe reported that her face went all white, then red, then white again. Apparently she had seen something that upset her very much.

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AA had a way of making up 'dirt' on all the people who denied her, such as:
Felix Y. trying to kill her
Mountbatten poisoning Rathlef
Gibbes stealing from the family
Bux 'traitor'
Ernie 'spy'{though this rumor was already spreading around and in a book so she didn't make it up, inly used it to her advantage)
The Felix story seems to be pure Lovell fiction. If you read his version of it, it says that Felix hired a car and drove to Seeon. In the real version, he was invited by Professor Rudnev and came in the latter's company. He later met with Botkin in Berlin, and confessed that he was trying to pull Botkin into Grand Duchess Xenia's camp.
Mountbatten poisoning Frau Rathlef Keilmann is a new one on me.
Gibbes stealing from the family is from Welch, with nothing to back it up.
Buxhoeveden a traitor comes from the Tsarina in a letter to Viroubova from Tobolsk. Very unfair of her since Buxhoeveden stayed behind due to a medical problem. Later she came under suspicion of the IF due to "her changed behaviour." But, as I have posted from Russian archives, she gave the Bolsheviks information of the jewels sewn into the clothing in order to save her own skin. And quite frankly, I do understand her.
As for Uncle Ernie, I think we can totally discount your desperate try to explain her knowledge of him travelling to Russia. And remember: She did not take the rumor public, that was done from Darmstadt.
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  #1862  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
I think the jury is still out on that one.
Not to the REAL world.
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My desire is only to discuss the mystery and correct all your incorrect statements.
Only when they are pro AA. If you were so interested in accuracy, you wouldn't diss the DNA.
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As for the bone fragments, I am still waiting for the results from the various labs.
So you think the Russians and the Americans have lied? Will results from 1,000 labs ever suit you?
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So why waste your time on us wacky and unrealistic people? Have you nothing better to do?
Obvioulsy you don't have anything better to do.
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But what about the shoe size?
Very insignificant. None of my siblings or kids can name my shoe size, if they say it wrong, does that make me a different person? We can't even prove it it was right or not. She wasn't Cinderella.
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Then please let us know when.
I have posted the links many times on this thread before. Are you playing games with me or do you have selective amnesia?
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I don't think Buxhoeveden laughed very much after seeing AA. Schwabe reported that her face went all white, then red, then white again. Apparently she had seen something that upset her very much.
It's obvious the woman could tell a fraud and tell her outright. Sorry, don't try to make stories that don't exist out of it.
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The Felix story seems to be pure Lovell fiction. If you read his version of it, it says that Felix hired a car and drove to Seeon. In the real version, he was invited by Professor Rudnev and came in the latter's company. He later met with Botkin in Berlin, and confessed that he was trying to pull Botkin into Grand Duchess Xenia's camp.
Oh, so it kept changing, like AA's stupid escape story with all its different versions? That's always a sign of a liar.
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Mountbatten poisoning Frau Rathlef Keilmann is a new one on me.
Found it on Winjats research site. She also accused him of poisoning Leuchtenberg.
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Gibbes stealing from the family is from Welch, with nothing to back it up.
You saying Welch lied? She used some sources Kurth didn't use, because she didn't mind making AA look bad.
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Buxhoeveden a traitor comes from the Tsarina in a letter to Viroubova from Tobolsk.
YOU ALWAYS SAY THIS BUT CAN NEVER PRODUCE IT! You even tried once to say it must be in Alexandra's diary! Give it up, it doesn't exist!
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she gave the Bolsheviks information of the jewels sewn into the clothing in order to save her own skin.
What's wrong with this? Let me count the ways...
1. It comes from an 'unpublished' account that contradicts the other translated unpublished account. So we really don't have any proof of it.
2. They didn't know about the jewels until after they killed them and took off their clothes. All the accounts of the murder night make this clear.
3. She didn't 'save her skin-' she spent 13 months running for her life across Siberia, and was only able to flee Russia with the help of the British military who at the time controlled Omsk.
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As for Uncle Ernie, I think we can totally discount your desperate try to explain her knowledge of him travelling to Russia. And remember: She did not take the rumor public, that was done from Darmstadt.
The rumor was 'taken public' in the 1922 book 3 years before.
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  #1863  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Only when they are pro AA. If you were so interested in accuracy, you wouldn't diss the DNA.
DNA from a putative sample, according to Dr. Gill.

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So you think the Russians and the Americans have lied? Will results from 1,000 labs ever suit you?
So far, I have not seen results from even one lab.

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Very insignificant. None of my siblings or kids can name my shoe size, if they say it wrong, does that make me a different person? We can't even prove it it was right or not. She wasn't Cinderella.
Who cares about your siblings! Gertrude was the one who gave FS's shoe size, she remembered it because her feet were bigger and she could not use FS's shoes.

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I have posted the links many times on this thread before. Are you playing games with me or do you have selective amnesia?
None of the above. Go ahead and post them again.

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It's obvious the woman could tell a fraud and tell her outright. Sorry, don't try to make stories that don't exist out of it.
You have to take that up with Schwabe, he was the one who reported it.

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Oh, so it kept changing, like AA's stupid escape story with all its different versions? That's always a sign of a liar.
No, it did not keep changing. Just that Lovell made his own version of it. And Gilliard apparently made his own version of AA's escape story.

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Found it on Winjats research site. She also accused him of poisoning Leuchtenberg.
Winjats research site? I cannot even find it. But it doesn't really matter, AA was intensely suspicious, just like the Tsarina.

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You saying Welch lied? She used some sources Kurth didn't use, because she didn't mind making AA look bad.
I am not saying that Welch lied, just that she has no back-up for it. Kurth backs up everything he writes, that's why I like his book so much.

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YOU ALWAYS SAY THIS BUT CAN NEVER PRODUCE IT! You even tried once to say it must be in Alexandra's diary! Give it up, it doesn't exist!
Read Roland von Krug Nidda.

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What's wrong with this? Let me count the ways...
1. It comes from an 'unpublished' account that contradicts the other translated unpublished account. So we really don't have any proof of it.
2. They didn't know about the jewels until after they killed them and took off their clothes. All the accounts of the murder night make this clear.
The SOLDIERS did not know. Yurovsky knew.

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3. She didn't 'save her skin-' she spent 13 months running for her life across Siberia, and was only able to flee Russia with the help of the British military who at the time controlled Omsk.
Running for her life? Like Gilliard and Gibbes? While Hendrikova and Schneider were shot in cold blood!

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The rumor was 'taken public' in the 1922 book 3 years before.
Yes, rumors in an obscure book. Try again.
  #1864  
Old 09-25-2008, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
DNA from a putative sample, according to Dr. Gill.
You are the only one who drags that word around. He and everyone else involved was confident they had disproven AA as not being AN.
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So far, I have not seen results from even one lab.
You ignored all the news stories on the three labs' results. You will continue to ignore everything else they put out, because it will not suit you. You will continue to live in your little fantasy forever.
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who cares about your siblings!
I'm saying, siblings don't always know.
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None of the above. Go ahead and post them again.
I'm not playing your games. Look through the dozens and dozens of pages in this thread, it's YOUR fault it's a jumble since you made them all a mess so the mods would merge them and all the good info that you don't want seen will get lost. Start digging. I'm not doing it for you anymore.
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You have to take that up with Schwabe, he was the one who reported it.
A lot of people say a lot of things.
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No, it did not keep changing. Just that Lovell made his own version of it.
You calling him a liar?
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And Gilliard apparently made his own version of AA's escape story.
No it was Clara P's letter to Irene Hesse.
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I am not saying that Welch lied, just that she has no back-up for it.
You haven't even bothered to check her sources.
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The SOLDIERS did not know. Yurovsky knew.
He sure seemed surprised in the Yurovsky note.
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Running for her life? Like Gilliard and Gibbes?
Yes. Taken for a foreign national, like them, due to her name.
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While Hendrikova and Schneider were shot in cold blood!
Volkov escaped, yet you don't assume he did anything to buy his freedom.
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Yes, rumors in an obscure book. Try again.
The book remains, and its existence takes all the hot air out of your 'spilling the beans.'
  #1865  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
You are the only one who drags that word around. He and everyone else involved was confident they had disproven AA as not being AN.
When Gill was asked if the mystery was solved, he simply said: That is not for me to say.

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You ignored all the news stories on the three labs' results. You will continue to ignore everything else they put out, because it will not suit you. You will continue to live in your little fantasy forever.
Maybe you could provide a link to these results?

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I'm not playing your games. Look through the dozens and dozens of pages in this thread, it's YOUR fault it's a jumble since you made them all a mess so the mods would merge them and all the good info that you don't want seen will get lost. Start digging. I'm not doing it for you anymore.
Probably because you know you cannot find any.....

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No it was Clara P's letter to Irene Hesse.
And do we have a copy?

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He sure seemed surprised in the Yurovsky note.
And which one would that be? There were quite a few of them, you know.

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Yes. Taken for a foreign national, like them, due to her name.
Yes, I forgot. Schneider sounds very Russian.

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Volkov escaped, yet you don't assume he did anything to buy his freedom.
Volkov ran as fast as he could, he did nothing to buy his freedom.

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The book remains, and its existence takes all the hot air out of your 'spilling the beans.'
Sorry, an obscure book that has long been out of print does not matter here. And according to Darmstadt, it was the Entente Press which had spilled the beans. Of course, they were unable to state issue and date.
  #1866  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
Probably because you know you cannot find any.....
Nope, you're not baiting me again. Use the search button.
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And do we have a copy?
Do we have a copy of every little thing you quote? Where? Kurth's book? Where is the original? How do we know for sure?
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And which one would that be? There were quite a few of them, you know.
The real one.
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Volkov ran as fast as he could, he did nothing to buy his freedom.
How do you know his story is true? I'm not doubting it, just saying if you question her escape story, why not question everyone's?
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Sorry, an obscure book that has long been out of print does not matter here. .
You wish, but sorry, it does take all the punch out of your 'beans' story.
  #1867  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Nope, you're not baiting me again. Use the search button.
No need, I know when I am right.

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o we have a copy of every little thing you quote? Where? Kurth's book? Where is the original? How do we know for sure?
Most of he originals cited in Kurth's book are kept in die Deutsche Staatsarchiven.
Gilliard's original are all burnt!

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How do you know his story is true? I'm not doubting it, just saying if you question her escape story, why not question everyone's?
Because he was taken out with Hendrikova and Schneider et alia and would have been shot together with them if he had not escaped. Buxhoeveden was left alone by the Bolsheviks.

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You wish, but sorry, it does take all the punch out of your 'beans' story.
What beans?
  #1868  
Old 09-25-2008, 07:42 PM
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And now I would like you to tell me how AA knew about the Tsar's cigarette holder. That is your homework for tomorrow.
  #1869  
Old 09-25-2008, 08:50 PM
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Oh, but how do you know Volkov ran off? If you doubt Bux's escape story why not his? Gibbes and Gilliard were with Bux, all their stories match up.

Nope I'm not letting you bait me, I am too hateful this time. It doesn't bother me you say I didn't post it, because I know I did, and anyone who searches will find it. You are either baiting me for sport, or you've blocked it out. Either way, I don't care. Look it up.

Cigarette holder? Most likely the guy who had it!

The answer is always, AA is not AN, so there's no mystery about anything she did except who all helped her. She was a fake.
  #1870  
Old 09-25-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Oh, but how do you know Volkov ran off? If you doubt Bux's escape story why not his? Gibbes and Gilliard were with Bux, all their stories match up.
And who has said that their stories don't match up? But the fact that Buxhoeveden was let go by the Bolsheviks and the others not, makes her rather suspicious.

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Nope I'm not letting you bait me, I am too hateful this time. It doesn't bother me you say I didn't post it, because I know I did, and anyone who searches will find it. You are either baiting me for sport, or you've blocked it out. Either way, I don't care. Look it up.
I don't have to. I know when I'm right.

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Cigarette holder? Most likely the guy who had it!
But how did AA know that the Tsar had one just like it?

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The answer is always, AA is not AN, so there's no mystery about anything she did except who all helped her. She was a fake.
I somehow have doubts about that.
  #1871  
Old 09-26-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
When Gill was asked if the mystery was solved, he simply said: That is not for me to say.
Well, obviously. I mean, he said himself that the match with Karl Maucher's sample was indicative but not confirmatory that Anna Anderson was related to Karl Maucher. However, he also said that the mismatch with Prince Philip's sample ruled out a relationship between them.

As for "putative," I think we've been round that particular roundabout a few times before. The scientists are confident that their results apply to Anna Anderson, since there were samples from independent sources. "Putative" is standard terminology for samples that were obtained indirectly. There's nothing in that word which implies that they were less certain of the authenticity of their sources than they say in the paper.
  #1872  
Old 09-26-2008, 03:52 PM
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Couldn't the sample have gotten switched or mixed up at the hospital?

This is the explaination of Penny Jenkins, who was responsible for Martha Jefferson Hospital's medical records, including blood and tissue samples. When asked of the possibility of 'substitution' of the tissue at the hospital, here was her reply:


"We have two separate backups. In 1979 when Dr. Shrum did surgery on Mrs. Manahan, we took slides of the tissue, in addition to preserving in paraffin the larger blocks of the excised tissue. Taking slides when doing surgery is routine, you take it, you look at it, and say, there is cancer, or it's not cancer, or it's an infection or whatever. We preserve these slides in one place and the paraffin wax in a totally different place.

"Furthermore, when we moved the tissue from storage back to the hospital in early 1993, Dr, Thomas Dudley, the assistant pathologist, cut some new slides from one of the blocks. We compared these new slides cut in 1993 with those slides cut in 1979 and they were identical. If someone had swapped them in storage during the last couple of years, they would not have matched. And the chance that anybody was able to get to both locations and switch both slides without access to specimen numbers is impossible."
(source: Massie, "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter")

What about how the hospital first claimed they had nothing in her name, then found it later. Isn't that suspicious?

No, the reason the hospital didn't find it right away was mainly because the person who originally asked for the sample gave the names "Anna Anderson" and "Mrs. Jack Manahan", but the sample was filed under the name "Anastasia Manahan" (her husband's real name was John, Jack was only a nickname, and it was under her name, not his, so this is why the computer searches originally gave no matches.)
(source: Klier and Mingay, "Quest for Anastasia")

But couldn't there have been some mistake? Aren't there some recent reports of errors in some tests?

In the days when the AA testing was done, there were only a few people who knew how to do it. They were the pioneers, and specialists who were very good at their work. The main scientists involved are still working today and have very highly regarded reputations in the scientific and legal communities. These days, there are a lot more DNA labs out there, and there are thousands of people working in them, some who are not as expert as they should be. There are even commercials inviting you to go to lab x downtown and get a DNA sample done of a hundred dollars. You can even have your dog's DNA tested via mail order. With all these new labs, some with questionable employees and procedures, there may be a mistake once in awhile. BUT the thing to consider and realize in the AA case is that, in addition to the high level of expertise and integrity of those involved, the tests were done in FOUR different labs- three for the intestines, one for the hair. All labs reached the same exact result. If one had 'goofed', one would not match the others. If they all goofed, none would match. It's impossible that they would all make the same random error. The tests were accurate, and the scientists involved will be the first to tell you there is no need to test them again, you will get the same result. If you have the money and the time and want to try to challenge it in court, go for it, but you will lose.

Personal letter from Dr. Terry Melton:

My response to you is the same that I give to everyone who questions the legitimacy of the Anderson results:

Multiple labs got the same results on different tissues (hair/intestinal tissues) at different times. Independent testing such as this is best practice in forensic testing, especially when the results are going to be scrutinized at the level of this case. It is highly unlikely that the same results would be obtained in different labs if the work was shoddy. More likely, the labs would have gotten different results that made no sense compared to each other.

The science that was used is basic, and the methods, while becoming more sensitive and streamlined since the time of the original tests, were and are designed to get at the most basic building blocks of human identity: the DNA sequence. The DNA sequence cannot change when the methods change. There is no more elemental level of inspection.

Conspiracy theories don't worry me. The weight of well-conceived and time-tested protocols carried out by laboratories with impeccable credentials and nothing to gain from either answer are behind all the results, which have been published in scientific, peer-reviewed literature.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Terry Melton

So there you go. The samples couldn't have been switched or mixed up, and if there had been an error in any one of tests, they all wouldn't have matched. No switch, no mistakes. AA was not AN.
  #1873  
Old 09-26-2008, 06:23 PM
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Excellent work regarding the reliability of the DNA results A-W-F!
  #1874  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:07 PM
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With regards to what reading materials AA was familiarized with while in the Dalldorf asylum.

It has been suggested by AA supporters that the Berlin Illustrated Journal that AA had access to was one which predated WWI-which of course was well before the murder of the Imperial Family. Her supporters insist she did not have the copy of the Berlin Illustrated Journal published in the 1920's (which in detail spoke of the circumstances of the Imperial family's murder and the possible escape of one of the Grand Duchesses-it named Anastasia especially) as Pierre Gilliard insisted AA had obtained through a nurse. AA supporters have insisted that this is utterly untrue and that AA had not seen it. In the article it even has a photograph of the murder room and a detail of the wallpaper within the room.

AA in the mid 1920's would later express shock and dismay when she "learned" that articles had been published about the Imperial family's murder.

Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann wrote about a conversation which she had with AA in the mid 1920s:
[AA:] "'The doctor would also know me.'
[Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann:] 'What doctor?'
[AA:] 'Who was with us.'
[HvRK:] 'What was his name?'
She doesn't know. Then:[AA:] 'I believe...B-Botkin.'
[HvRK:] 'I believe to have read something, that he is dead.' She looks at me questioningly, holds my hands firmly.[AA:] 'What do you know? Do you know it for sure?'
[HvRK:] 'It has been published that they found something to prove it.'
From all of this I see that she does not know that people have written about the murder of the Imperial famiy." [Kurth, 83]

Ironically in HvRK's own book she retells the report of Professor Dr Bohnhoeffer who tended to AA during the 1920's and "at whose disposal the whole history of the illness at Dalldorf was placed". He wrote that AA "remembers that a nurse brought her an illustrated newspaper containing an account of the imprisonment and murder of the Tsar's family" (230pg. Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann's book Anastasia)

One can see how people (who were unaware of what information AA had access to) were impressed by AA's "memories". For instance Inspector Grunberg who hosted AA in the early 1920's was amazed at how AA recalled with high accuracy the wallpaper, unaware that AA had previously had access to the aforementioned newspaper. In addition when GD Olga Alexandrovna heard that a woman in Berlin (AA) claimed to be Anastasia and said that one of her Aunt's (though AA was unsure which one) had called her "Schwibs" she was very puzzled and intrigued. She even mentioned it in the letter she wrote Pierre Gilliard and his wife when asking them to visit AA to determine the accuracy of her claims. Only later did GD Olga find out that a someone (formerly acquainted with herself) had visited AA shortly after her entree into the Monarchist community and told AA of the nickname.
  #1875  
Old 09-26-2008, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tsarskoe View Post
With regards to what reading materials AA was familiarized with while in the Dalldorf asylum.
From nurse Malinovsky's testimony:
"`At Dalldorf there were a lot of daily newspapers, which always came late,usually days late. Among them [were] the `Lokalanzeiger' and `Vorwärts.' These papers the patients were allowed to see. In the library there were mainly novels and very light sort of reading. Apart from that, Dalldorf had a whole backlog of illustrated magazines, but all of them were old, not current, which had been given or left there by people of good will. It is out of the question that F.U. [actually, "the patient"] could have found or read historical or political books there that related to the tsar's family or to Russia. You can check this for yourself.

Quote:
It has been suggested by AA supporters that the Berlin Illustrated Journal that AA had access to was one which predated WWI-which of course was well before the murder of the Imperial Family. Her supporters insist she did not have the copy of the Berlin Illustrated Journal published in the 1920's (which in detail spoke of the circumstances of the Imperial family's murder and the possible escape of one of the Grand Duchesses-it named Anastasia especially) as Pierre Gilliard insisted AA had obtained through a nurse. AA supporters have insisted that this is utterly untrue and that AA had not seen it. In the article it even has a photograph of the murder room and a detail of the wallpaper within the room.
Do we have a copy of that article?

Quote:
AA in the mid 1920's would later express shock and dismay when she "learned" that articles had been published about the Imperial family's murder.

Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann wrote about a conversation which she had with AA in the mid 1920s:
[AA:] "'The doctor would also know me.'
[Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann:] 'What doctor?'
[AA:] 'Who was with us.'
[HvRK:] 'What was his name?'
She doesn't know. Then:[AA:] 'I believe...B-Botkin.'
[HvRK:] 'I believe to have read something, that he is dead.' She looks at me questioningly, holds my hands firmly.[AA:] 'What do you know? Do you know it for sure?'
[HvRK:] 'It has been published that they found something to prove it.'
From all of this I see that she does not know that people have written about the murder of the Imperial famiy." [Kurth, 83]
In Kurth's book, the indication is that AA is the one who says: "I believe to have read something , that he is dead." You cut out one line of the conversation.

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Ironically in HvRK's own book she retells the report of Professor Dr Bohnhoeffer who tended to AA during the 1920's and "at whose disposal the whole history of the illness at Dalldorf was placed". He wrote that AA "remembers that a nurse brought her an illustrated newspaper containing an account of the imprisonment and murder of the Tsar's family" (230pg. Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann's book Anastasia)
See above.

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One can see how people (who were unaware of what information AA had access to) were impressed by AA's "memories". For instance Inspector Grunberg who hosted AA in the early 1920's was amazed at how AA recalled with high accuracy the wallpaper, unaware that AA had previously had access to the aforementioned newspaper.
Please provide a copy.

Quote:
In addition when GD Olga Alexandrovna heard that a woman in Berlin (AA) claimed to be Anastasia and said that one of her Aunt's (though AA was unsure which one) had called her "Schwibs" she was very puzzled and intrigued. She even mentioned it in the letter she wrote Pierre Gilliard and his wife when asking them to visit AA to determine the accuracy of her claims. Only later did GD Olga find out that a someone (formerly acquainted with herself) had visited AA shortly after her entree into the Monarchist community and told AA of the nickname.
This was introduced in the Hamburg court, but nobody could prove it, and it was dismissed. Let's have the whole story as it apparently happened: A former Russian officer called Bulygin was at Berlin in 1922; the Grand-Duchess Olga had sent him to Siberia in 1918 to search for the Imperial family. 'Shvips' was the password, writes Gilliard, and when Mrs. Tchaikovski was at the Schwabes', Bulygin had spelt it out letter by letter to see if it aroused in her mind any memory of the old nickname the Grand-Duchess Olga used to call her niece. (The nickname was actually 'Schwibzik'.) Seems like the whole world came through the apartments of von Kleist and Schwabe between May and August of 1922....
  #1876  
Old 09-27-2008, 12:49 AM
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Ah, well if you quote Malinovskii you should also include the bit in her testimony where she states that she brought books for AA while in Dalldorf and that AA read "a lot" and "often". [Mind you the books were in German. Reminds me of the testimony of one of the Windgenders who stated that Franziska Schanzkowska used to read books (from the library) constantly. If memory serves Franziska preferred Romances. According to J.B.Lovell (If one counts him as credible) AA was a reader late into her life, particularly Agatha Christie mysteries.]

Also let me reiterate that Prof. Dr. Bohnhoeffer reported that AA admitted that she had been given (by one of the nurses) a magazine about the captivity and murder of the family. What better witness can their be? [Since in his report Prof. Dr. Bohnhoeffer did not mention the nurse by name we cannot say it was Malinovskii who gave her the magazine and thus she may have been unaware of its presence in the ward]

[An aside-With regards to the Kurth passage I did in fact misattributed the quote "I believe to have read something, that he is dead." to HvRK when it was said by AA. I do apologize for the error and thank you for catching that. That being said it doesn't change the fact that Harriet then incorrectly assumed that AA was not aware that anything had been written about the murders of the Imperial family.]
  #1877  
Old 09-27-2008, 01:04 AM
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I think just the fact that she told Dr. Bohnhoeffer that she got the magazine shows that she is hiding nothing. And that she read books in Dalldorf, is no secret.

From "Ich, Anastasia, erzähle":
Afterwards, when I had grown accustomed to my new existence, I took more part in everything, although I still stayed in bed most of the time, and did not go into the garden like the others. But I looked at papers and books and even discussed political questions with the nurse. Once a nurse brought me a newspaper in which there was something about Russians being deported to the Bolsheviks. I was very shocked over this, but also realised how right I had been to conceal my name. Better be here, I thought, than handed over to the men who had murdered my family.
Another nurse, one Miss Walz, once showed me an illustrated magazine with pictures of our captivity at Tobolsk and the night of terror at Ekaterinburg.

So, as you see, your revelations are not exactly a secret.
  #1878  
Old 09-27-2008, 01:11 AM
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I believe your quote is from the German version of I, Anastasia? Which AA did not write, thus the above quote cannot be attributed to her, unless I am mistaken and the quote is from another source.

The point isn't that my revelations are a secret, but the fact that AA supporters repeatedly indicate that AA did not read very much if at all during her time at Dalldorf, and that she did not have access to accounts of the Imperial family, when in fact she did.
  #1879  
Old 09-27-2008, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsarskoe View Post
I believe your quote is from the German version of I, Anastasia? Which AA did not write, thus the above quote cannot be attributed to her, unless I am mistaken and the quote is from another source.
No, AA did definitely not write that book, it borrows heavily from Ratlef Keilmann and Gleb Botkin. The quotes are hers, but presented in first person.

Quote:
The point isn't that my revelations are a secret, but the fact that AA supporters repeatedly indicate that AA did not read very much if at all during her time at Dalldorf, and that she did not have access to accounts of the Imperial family, when in fact she did.
As I have showed you, she did have access to magazines, newspapers and books. But, as Malinovsky states, there were no historical books relating to the Russian Imperial Family.
  #1880  
Old 09-27-2008, 01:24 AM
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As for her memory, here is a snippet from a report written by Dr. Nobel:
"It also happens that she herself forgets many things she has narrated , and, on my referring to them again, she wonders where I have learnt about them."
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anastasia, anna anderson, dr berenberg-gossler, ekaterinburg, franziska schanzkowska, grand duchess anastasia, pierre gilliard, prince michael romanov


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