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  #1481  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:24 PM
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The only doctor I can find who treated AA at the Kleist's apartment, was dr. Schiler.
As for Baron Kleist's narrative, AA's indignation knew no limit when she heard about the Baron's "lies". So much for that.
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  #1482  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
When did you call him?
I talked to him today Chat and he didn't indicate any call from anybody.
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  #1483  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susana View Post
It actually pains me to face the facts--well, the DNA results. I travelled to Ekaterinburg in 1997 on the 79th anniversary of the family's massacre. At that time only 9 of the 11 bodies had been found and I felt sure Anastasia had escaped. I was allowed to view the remains in the city morgue and having already seen photos and video of the remains I was sure her skull wasn't there. .

Susana, why were you allowed to review the remains? Were you there in an official capacity of some kind? One of things that has always bothered me about both these remains and the latest find is the way so many people have been allowed to view and even handle the bones.
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  #1484  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:52 AM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
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!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
I allege nothing. From "Anastasia, the Riddle of Anna Anderson": Suddenly the Princess burst into tears. Pacing the floor, wringing her hands, she exclaimed in real anguish, "She is similar, she is similar, but what does that mean if it is not she?" (Interview with Prince Frederick of Saxe-Altenburg; in FOT, 235.)
As I said, this is HIS word, he was a supporter, and eccentric, and it did not come directly from her, therefore it's not provable.

Quote:
The whole affair had upset Irene "so terribly," Oscar reported, that her husband, Prince Henry, had forbidden Anastasia as a topic of conversation in the house. (Lillian Zahle to Maria Debagory, January 1, 1927, BA.)
Again, second/third hand gossip that may not be true. You should also consider if she was upset, it was due to some faker pretending to be her dead niece. You disregard the grief and agony of Irene, Ernie and Olga A. who all lost 2 siblings and their nieces and nephew to the revolution.


Quote:
We may be talking about two different programs here.
But there is no other program! Unless you can name it and give us a link and tell us who was on it, when it aired, the name of it, or least proof of its existence! This is what I've been saying all along- there was only one show, NOVA, and the comment misrepresents what was said in it. If you think there's another show, I'm waiting for proof.



Quote:
You better be prepared to prove this.
WATCH THE SHOW!!!



Quote:
When did you call him?
He obviously reads the forum.
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  #1485  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:03 PM
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My goodness, you are certainly working yourself into a huff, aren't you.
But I don't watch much British TV.
And you certainly don't believe AA's supporters, but you swear to every word Ian Vorres writes. Interesting, ain't it.
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  #1486  
Old 08-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Again, second/third hand gossip that may not be true. You should also consider if she was upset, it was due to some faker pretending to be her dead niece. You disregard the grief and agony of Irene, Ernie and Olga A. who all lost 2 siblings and their nieces and nephew to the revolution.
The whole thing is quite sad. I feel so sorry for what Olga, Ernest, and Irene had to deal with AA's nonsense and fraud life. AA made Irene, Olga and Ernest lives very miserable. It's bad enough to lose four nieces and one sister and brother. Pretending to be them is even worse. I completely agree what Felix Yussopov said here:

These false pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere.
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  #1487  
Old 08-22-2008, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
He obviously reads the forum.
Um, no, Peter doesn't. He's been engaged in other things lately.
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  #1488  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:27 PM
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Clarifications

With regards to PBS's Nova program entitled Anastasia: Dead or Alive? Episode # 2209. They did indeed interview Peter Vanesis-though his study had previously been conducted and apparently already featured in the Julian Nott documentary. Vanesis uses a 5 point scale when comparing ears. A 5 being a perfect match between the two different of ears.

That being said, when comparing the left ear of the GD AN and the left ear of AA he gave their "inner" ear a perfect 5 match. He could not give the rest of an ear a 5 since they did not match exactly- he attributed this to the different tilts of the ear.

With regards to the comparison of right ear Vanesis gave the match between the ear of AN and AA a 4, which again he attributed to different angles at which the photographs were taken.

Interestingly the photo of AN's right ear used for Vanesis's study was one of the ears in Gilliard's book La Fausse Anastasie which I previously posted (The photo used was the ear on the far left in the link below). Therefore, if one were to argue that this is not Anastasia's real ear than Vanesis's study is flawed. The photograph on the right in the link below is from one of the more famous photos of Anastasia which can be seen in the link below this one
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/ear2.jpg

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs/romanov59d.jpg
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  #1489  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:52 PM
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With regards to Furtmayr and the reversed ear. Below is a photograph of the group of AA's right ear used by Moritz Furtmayr in his study. Note the ear in the middle is the ear from the "mug shot" photo. (When I say mug shot I mean the series of two photographs taken of AA front the front and from the side-See the photo immediately below the group of ears) The ear in the top row in the center is then replicated below itself but in reverse format-which as I explained earlier: Furtmayr thought the negative of the original photograph had been reversed and thus the photo on the center bottom is how Furtmayr thought the image should appear. This image can be found at youtube IN SEARCH OF ANASTASIA video 3 of 3.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...skoe/ears3.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/mug.jpg

Once again Furtmayr did use the photograph of Maria (see below) in his ear study. Regardless of whether he used any other photographs of Anastasia, the point is that if Furtmayr could not tell the difference between Maria's and Anastasia's ears then his study is flawed since his premise is that no two human ears are identical. This image comes right from the segment of IN SEARCH OF ANASTASIA where they interviewed Furtmayr and show a series of photographs he used in his study.

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  #1490  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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I went back and looked at the Youtube segment again, and I am almost sure that the profile comparison was done to the picture of Maria. Now, how could that come out with AA's exact measurements? Are we 100% sure that the photo is Maria and not Anastasia?
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  #1491  
Old 08-23-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsarskoe View Post

That's defiantly Maria! 100% sure! I don't believe there's no way Furtymar can prove that AA's and Maria ears are identical.

Quote:
Anastasia, the point is that if Furtmayr could not tell the difference between Maria's and Anastasia's ears then his study is flawed since his premise is that no two human ears are identical.
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  #1492  
Old 08-23-2008, 09:34 AM
Michael HR's Avatar
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I was wondering is anyone planning a book on Anna Anderson showing all the evidence including the DNA arguments for or against? Perhaps this is a good idea as those who support AA can in one place bring all the arguments together and allow the reader to make up their mind one way or the other.

Just an idea.

Michael HR
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  #1493  
Old 08-23-2008, 11:20 AM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
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I don't think so, the AA supporters only write books that try to make you believe, and the ones who don't believe feel no proof is necessary because denying the DNA is as bad as believing in Santa or a flat earth. I do believe the other (non AA) side needs to be told, so that's what I put on my site. All you have to do is add that info with the AA fans' writings and you have what you want. However, really, giving any value to the AA side after all these DNA tests is really ridiculous and shouldn't even be seriously considered. It's not an opinion anymore once it's been officially disproven. If anyone 'makes up their mind' that AA is AN, they are a conspiracy theorist, end of story.

There are some that say Klier and Mingay's "Quest for Anastasia" presents both sides, but they were writing from the POV that the DNA tests were back and we knew AA was fake. You might try the book and see what you think.
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  #1494  
Old 08-23-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
My goodness, you are certainly working yourself into a huff, aren't you.
I only want what you always ask for, proof, sources, real answers. A claim was made in a book, yet the details not only can't be proven, they can be disproven! Is there another TV show or is there not? I've never heard of one, and being an AA enthusiast surely you'd have found out about it regardless of its origins. There is nothing online or in any book about such a show, I still believe the show mentioned was NOVA and the statement is incorrect. If you cannot prove otherwise, then admit the statement from "Tsar" is indeed in error and do not quote it as truth again. You always say, it's important to stick to the facts and not let them get clouded by misinformation. That's what I'm asking for here in reference to this statement and alleged other TV show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
The whole thing is quite sad. I feel so sorry for what Olga, Ernest, and Irene had to deal with AA's nonsense and fraud life. AA made Irene, Olga and Ernest lives very miserable. It's bad enough to lose four nieces and one sister and brother. Pretending to be them is even worse. I completely agree what Felix Yussopov said here:

These false pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere.
I agree too!
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  #1495  
Old 08-23-2008, 11:31 AM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsarskoe View Post
With regards to PBS's Nova program entitled Anastasia: Dead or Alive? Episode # 2209. They did indeed interview Peter Vanesis-
I found my copy and watched it last night. He said AA was the most likely candidate for a match with the ear used, but said nothing of her being AN or anything of 'certainty.'

I didn't know the show was on youtube, thanks for telling us. I hope now everyone will watch it for themselves.

Quote:
though his study had previously been conducted and apparently already featured in the Julian Nott documentary.
What is this documentary, what was in it, and what were their conclusions? Is it on Youtube too?
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  #1496  
Old 08-23-2008, 12:04 PM
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Hi guys, just a reminder that copyright law covers photos, images and scans. If the original image was not first published prior to about 1920 then it may fall under US legal copyright protection and should only be presented in the Forums as a link to another website or hosting site.

Over recent weeks I've converted most of the images in question into links to the member's image-hosting site.
Please note that hotlinking to/from other websites is not permitted.

If there are any questions about picture posting and copyright please see this explanation or contact any of the TRF moderators.

Thanks for everyone's cooperation.

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  #1497  
Old 08-23-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
I only want what you always ask for, proof, sources, real answers. A claim was made in a book, yet the details not only can't be proven, they can be disproven! Is there another TV show or is there not? I've never heard of one, and being an AA enthusiast surely you'd have found out about it regardless of its origins. There is nothing online or in any book about such a show, I still believe the show mentioned was NOVA and the statement is incorrect. If you cannot prove otherwise, then admit the statement from "Tsar" is indeed in error and do not quote it as truth again. You always say, it's important to stick to the facts and not let them get clouded by misinformation. That's what I'm asking for here in reference to this statement and alleged other TV show.
Go back and read Tsarskoe's clarification.
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  #1498  
Old 08-23-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
That's defiantly Maria! 100% sure! I don't believe there's no way Furtymar can prove that AA's and Maria ears are identical.
I am not talking ears here, the ear on the alleged photo of Maria is too washed-out to make any comparison. I am talking about the profile comparison.
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  #1499  
Old 08-23-2008, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence View Post
The whole thing is quite sad. I feel so sorry for what Olga, Ernest, and Irene had to deal with AA's nonsense and fraud life. AA made Irene, Olga and Ernest lives very miserable.


Why? If they did not believe in her, why let it influence their lives? There certainly were enough impostors out there, but Anna Anderson was the only one they paid attention to. One wonders why.
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  #1500  
Old 08-23-2008, 03:00 PM
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Because her supporters had more money to help finance her campaign. Also, people love to be duped. She was a good actress.
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