Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[ChatNoir]

In reading an interview with somebody who got a tattoo from the same man in Japan, the artist was said to be very quick and lighthanded, and the operation was not as painful as one should have imagined.

 

[tsarskoe]

That's good to hear! Thank you ChatNoir

 

[Michael HR]

Seems the photo has been found. Beaten to the post agin

 

[ChatNoir]

I am reading "The Last Days of the Romanovs", and this is some of what Gibbes says about daily life in Tobolsk:

The empress got up at different times, sometimes much later than others. There were times when the empress came out only for lunch.
At lunch we used to have soup, fish, meat and dessert. Coffee was served upstairs. The dinner was similar to the lunch with the difference that some fruits were served. In the morning the emperor had tea with the Grand Duchess Olga in his workroom. Tea in the evening was always served in the emperors workroom and only the family was present.
According to the doctor's advice the czarevitch had to rest a little on the sofa after lunch. We went out for a walk till about four or five o'clock. After we returned the emperor gave a lesson in history to the czarevitch.
With some assistance the emperor built up a platform on the roof of the orangery. A staircase which was constructed by our combined efforts led to the platform.

Here is AA's description of daily life in Tobolsk:

In the morning Papa breakfasted with my sister Olga in his study, where afterwards he read or made entries in his diary. Mama was the last to get up, though she woke very early. She stayed a long time in bed, however, and drank her coffee in the bedroom, which she usually did not leave before lunch.
Lunch was at noon, and we still had our old chef. There was soup, fish, meat, preserved fruit and afterwards coffee. For supper, too, we sometimes got fruit, whenever it was obtainable in the town. After meals Alexei had to rest while we others went downstairs again.
Before tea, which we drank in Papa's study, Alexei got a history lesson from Papa.
We also built ourselves a small terrace above the orangery, with steps leading up to it, and there we enjoyed sitting in the sun.

Seems like AA had a very correct description of life in Tobolsk. Wonder where she got that from....

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Obviously, AA or one of her coach/supporters had access to the book, published in 1920.

 

[Stepan]

It sounds like she had read the book! Like she read it from a manuscript. It´s strange that someone could remember such details so many years afterwards. Too good to be true. And she often complained about her bad memory! I´m sure AA read a lot and had in fact a very good memory

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Yes, the paraphrasing is just too close to the direct wording of the book. I give her a D for not doing a good enough job of putting it in her own words.

 

[OlgaNikolaievna]

Oh she read that book! Her comments are right out of the book there is no question. This is only more evidence that Anna got her information from books. I don't care if she read it or somebody else read it and told her to say it. Her story came from Last Days of the Romanovs.

 

[Russophile]

Obviously, AA or one of her coach/supporters had access to the book, published in 1920.

Which one? Wilton's? Or the collaboration with Wilton, Sokolov and Telberg?

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Which one? Wilton's? Or the collaboration with Wilton, Sokolov and Telberg?

This is a question for Chat, he's the one who quoted it.

 

[ChatNoir]

1920 edition, Telberg and Wilton. I cannot find any translation into German, so if AA read the book, we have to assume that she read English very well.
Her descriptions were, of course, not delivered as written, they were collected and made into readable prose by the author of Ich Anastasia erzähle.

 

[ChatNoir]

It sounds like she had read the book! Like she read it from a manuscript. It´s strange that someone could remember such details so many years afterwards. Too good to be true. And she often complained about her bad memory! I´m sure AA read a lot and had in fact a very good memory

Her memory improved as her health got better. She herself told Dr. Eitel in 1926 that she finally was on the way to becoming a normal person. When she was under the influence of some kind of sedation, her memory improved remarkably, and as we have been told from her doctors, she spoke English under anesthesia and Russian in her sleep. And she was the one who some years later reminded Xenia Leeds of what games they had played as children, something that led Xenia to believe that she really was her cousin.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Isn't it interesting how her 'memory improved' as she gained more knowledge of the IF and their lives. That's what really happened, she was picking up more info to use as 'memories'.

 

[ChatNoir]

Isn't it interesting how her 'memory improved' as she gained more knowledge of the IF and their lives. That's what really happened, she was picking up more info to use as 'memories'.

And who gave her the info about where she and Xenia played, and what they played? Who told her the name of the special servant for the children? Who told her about her mother scratching the dates on the window pane in the summer palace? Who showed her the photos of the Livadia palace interior when there were no such photos on the market? Who told her about the swastika on the car, a detail not even Volkov remembered? Who taught her to name ladies in waiting from photographs? Who told her about Conrad? I would like a name now, not only allegations.
Besides, according to her doctors, she did not read a book from The Elizabeth Hospital to Schloss Seeon. And at Dalldorf she did not read anything connected to the Imperial family apart from an old issue of Berliner Illustrierte.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

It doesn't matter. She talked to a lot of people who knew a lot of languages and we'll never know just what came from each person. AA had contact with many emigres' and there were tens of thousands of them in Berlin at the time. Just look at how closely her 'memories' of 'Tobolsk' match those described by Gibbes in Last Days of the Romanovs. There was info available so it's not a stretch to assume she got a lot of her 'memories' that way. It would be interesting to knwo who was h elping her with this, since she obviously did not have the language skills to do it alone. Of course we can never prove who told her what since no one leaves this kind of thing in their diaries for all to see. (also some of it may have been innocently learned from visits with emigres' in addition to some fancy feeding) We'll also never know if Leeds was even sincere in her acceptance or just playing along for ulterior motives. But the bottom line is, we do know for sure now that AA was not AN, since the DNA tests prove her not to be related to the royal family, and now the bones of all the missing Romanov children have been found. So it's logical and accurate to conclude that because AA couldn't have been AN, she got her info elsewhere. The only mystery left is how, when and who was involved. AA was not AN so it does no good to keep on listing things that try to persuade us that she still may have been. That's over. Now it would be much more entertaining to try to piece together the story of how FS did it instead of rehashing all the old AA litany again.

 

[ChatNoir]

< ed Warren > you are unable to answer any questions. < ed Warren >

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Chat, I have answered your question. AA was not AN. DNA and the discovery of the missing bones have proven this. Of course we'll never know the name of the person who supplied her with the info, it's not something you can put a page number to since no one is going to admit it! The answer is AA IS NOT AN. Therefore she did not get the info from her own life. So there you go.

Until you can provide the reasons why the DNA results and bone discovery should not be accepted, you really have no right to call anyone else's words 'babble.' All you say is you won't speculate. So if you have no ideas or even guesses, how are we supposed to believe that anything happened? None of the word of mouth comments from this or that person can counteract cold hard science and reality.

 

[ChatNoir]

Yes, I do. No matter who AA was, you have never given an answer to any of my questions, just your own assumptions and home made explanations. And if you are so convinced that AA was FS, what are you doing here anyway?

 

[Russophile]

It doesn't matter.

Interesting how that happens. . .

 

[Menarue]

Isn't it interesting how her 'memory improved' as she gained more knowledge of the IF and their lives. That's what really happened, she was picking up more info to use as 'memories'.

I am always intrigued by people who find their memories of interesting and documented events get better and better as time goes by.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Interesting how that happens. . .

It's also very 'interesting' that those who have no explainations for how AA's DNA didn't match the royals and DID match the Schanzkowskas, or how the bones found in Russia last year DID match the royals, proving no children are still missing, will still try to make excuses for claimants and attempt to turn it around and make those who don't accept the claimants look like the ones. Until these explainations are given and proven, no, nothing else matters, because since AA was not AN, we know that the 'memories' and comments from others are meaningless.

 

[ChatNoir]

I cannot remember seeing any results published from the labs who did the research on the bones found last year. Maybe someone can post them for us?

 

[ChatNoir]

I am always intrigued by people who find their memories of interesting and documented events get better and better as time goes by.

Yes, the only problem here is that the murder of the whole family was not very well documented for years after the fact. Still, AA could give details from the last night in Ekaterinburg already at Dalldorf. And she also told about the jewels sewn into the clothes.

 

[BorisRom]

I cannot remember seeing any results published from the labs who did the research on the bones found last year. Maybe someone can post them for us?

Chat,
As far as I know, any results have not published till now.
Boris

 

[Menarue]

The jewels sewn in the clothes doesn´t mean much, if you had jewellery and wanted to hide it that is what you did. In those days no x-ray machines etc and they would think the jewels would be safe.
Remember in The Good Earth by Pearl Buck? The principal character in it became rich because his wife, who had been a slave in a rich nobleman´s house, knew where to look for the jewellery during a riot when a mansion was broken into. She went straight there.....

 

[Anna was Franziska]

The jewels sewn into the clothes story was also mentioned in "Last Days of the Romanovs" (1920)

pages 288-289

The Last Days of the Romanovs - Google Book Search

 

[Menarue]

Not exactly a secret or a great revelation then.

 

[ChatNoir]

The only problem is that in 1920 AA was at Dalldorf without access to new books, and she never had visitors.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

But she never said those things until after 1922 when she did start having visitors. You said yourself that story about the 'orangery' staircase and life in Tobolsk was in the book "I, Anastasia" written years later. Apparently the author did his research (even you admit the book wasn't written by AA)

Look, Chat, I don't know how to put this- it is PAINFULLY and PLAINLY OBVIOUS very much of AA's 'knowledge' and 'memories' came from books (as well as individuals) Since "Last Days" wasn't in German, it likely wasn't widely available in Germany, meaning most people there had never seen it and thus were more easily impressed and 'amazed' with her 'memories.' However, someone, and no we can't name them, had access to it and helped her with the details. One clue to the identity is that they knew several languages, as most emigres' did.

 

[Menarue]

As she wasn´t Anastasia it was most definitely "received knowledge"....