The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Non-Reigning Houses > The Imperial Family of Russia

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2081  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:12 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
And as I posted earlier, Yurovsky was the one who wrote that the jewels in the clothing bothered him no end. And where is your source?
Look at the Yurovsky note and other descriptions of the executions and burials. They were clearly surprised by the jewels in the clothes. What you posted is wrong.


Quote:
No, her name was German. And again, what is your source?
Her own book, Left Behind. I think she would know her own ancestry.



Quote:
First of all the Berlin Police who called her "the unknown Russian woman" due to her accent.
I only see AA supporters say this. Others just called her Miss Unknown.

Quote:
Second, Harriet Rathlef Keilmann, who said that she had that hard Russian emphasis on the last syllables.
AA supporter trying to help her, grasping at straws.

Quote:
The duke of Leuchtenberg said her German was so faulty that it was clear that it was not her first language.
And his son said she didn't know English or Russian and used German. Did the good Duke ever wonder why her first language wasn't Russian?

Quote:
Tatiana Botkin said that it was hard to understand her, even a funny story about her cat she could not tell properly due to lack of grammar and vocabulary, it was just words strung together. Dr. Eitel was also amazed at her small vocabulary and total disdain for grammar and classification of nouns. The same thing was said by Felix Dassel. Of course, after many years in Germany, she learned to write and speak it somewhat well, but her written German contained many mistakes.
Sigh just as I thought, same litany of supporters trying to grasp at straws.
Dream on and on. German was her language of choice and her best language. As YOURSELF this- if she knew Russian, English or French, why did she choose to use German, even among native Russian speakers? SHE WAS FS!
__________________

__________________
  #2082  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
And as usual, you have not managed to name a single credible source for your litany.
__________________

__________________
  #2083  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:26 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Sophie Bux:

I tried to attract the young woman's attention as I caressed her hair and speaking to her in English while using the types of phrases I would have used while speaking with the Grand Duchesses, but I did not refer to her by any name other than 'Darling'. She did not reply and I saw that she did not understand a word of what I had said, ....

When Ms. Peuthert saw that the unknown one remained completely mute and did not show that she recognized me, she tried to attract her attention by whispering some words into her ear in German and showing photographs of the Imperial family to her. She pointed to the Empress, while saying: 'Tell me, isn't that mamma?' (Or similar words). In the end she put into her hands a copy of a Russian New Testament with ribbons of the Russian national colors. All these attempts failed, the patient remained mute and strove to hide her face with her cover or her hands. I must point out that the Grand Duchess Anastasia hardly knew any German words and that she pronounced them with a strong Russian accent.

Felix Y.

I claim categorically that sheisnot Anastasia Nicolaievna, but just an adventuress, a hysteric and a frightful playactress. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be in doubt of this. These pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere." He had spoken to her in all four languages, Russian, English, French and German, and he reported she only answered him in German.

Dmitri Leuchtenberg, the Duke's son

. When Mrs. Tschiakovsky arrived in Seeon she did not speak or understand Russian; she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon; she did not speak or understand French. She spoke only German with a north German accent. Grand Duchess Anastasia, on the contrary, spoke always Russian to her father, English to her mother, understood and spoke French and did not speak any German.

Olga A.

When Olga entered the room, the woman lying on a bed asked a nurse: “Ist das die Tante?”[Is this the Aunt?] “That”, confessed Olga, “at once took me aback. A moment later I remembered that the young woman having spent five years in Germany, would naturally have learnt the language, but then I heard that when she was rescued from that canal in 1920, she spoke nothing but German – when she spoke at all- which was not often. I readily admit that a ghastly horror experienced in one’s youth can work havoc with one’s memory but I have never heard of any ghastly experience endowing anyone with a knowledge they had not had before it happened. My nieces knew no German at all. Mrs Anderson did not seem to understand a word of Russian or English, the two languages all the four sisters had spoken since babyhood. French came a little later, but German was never spoken in the family."


From Dr. Melton, who is from Charlottesville and was involved in the AA DNA testing:

I "met" Anderson once, her habit was to eat dinner at a local cafeteria with her husband frequently, and they left their old station wagon outside usually full of dogs, always black labrador retrievers. On the occasion that I met her, one of the dogs had escaped through a partially open window while the Manahans were inside the restaurant. My husband and I grabbed the dog, and he went in to tell them about what had happened. She came out of the restaurant, put the dog back in the car, scolding it loudly in a language I was not familiar with.

Kashoub Polish perhaps? Don't forget too that she was heard to yell out in Polish in church in her old age.

other witnesses:

"It was not the English of someone who had spoken English since childhood as Anastasia did." said the English writer, Michael Thornton, when he met her in 1960. "The accent was Germanic, the sentence structure German, the grammar hopeless."

Dave Howey, who met Anderson, by then Mrs. Manahan, when he was a cadet at a Virginia military academy in 1977, wrote of their meeting that "Her husband talked for her since she spoke very little English. Her only functional language was German, her Russian having been wiped out, we were told, as a result of the trauma from seeing her family gunned down in the cellar of a house in Ekaterinburg, Russia."
__________________
  #2084  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:55 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Sophie Bux:

I tried to attract the young woman's attention as I caressed her hair and speaking to her in English while using the types of phrases I would have used while speaking with the Grand Duchesses, but I did not refer to her by any name other than 'Darling'. She did not reply and I saw that she did not understand a word of what I had said, ....

When Ms. Peuthert saw that the unknown one remained completely mute and did not show that she recognized me, she tried to attract her attention by whispering some words into her ear in German and showing photographs of the Imperial family to her. She pointed to the Empress, while saying: 'Tell me, isn't that mamma?' (Or similar words). In the end she put into her hands a copy of a Russian New Testament with ribbons of the Russian national colors. All these attempts failed, the patient remained mute and strove to hide her face with her cover or her hands. I must point out that the Grand Duchess Anastasia hardly knew any German words and that she pronounced them with a strong Russian accent.
Andn how did Buxhoeveden KNOW this? Just because AA did not answer her, does not mean that she did not understand her.

Quote:
Felix Y.

I claim categorically that sheisnot Anastasia Nicolaievna, but just an adventuress, a hysteric and a frightful playactress. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be in doubt of this. These pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere." He had spoken to her in all four languages, Russian, English, French and German, and he reported she only answered him in German.
Yes, she answered in German to any language when in Germany. And Felix was the son-in-law of Xenia, who opposed AA sight unseen and told Olga to not under any circumstances acknowledge the unknown woman in Berlin.

Quote:
Dmitri Leuchtenberg, the Duke's son

. When Mrs. Tschiakovsky arrived in Seeon she did not speak or understand Russian; she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon; she did not speak or understand French. She spoke only German with a north German accent. Grand Duchess Anastasia, on the contrary, spoke always Russian to her father, English to her mother, understood and spoke French and did not speak any German.
Yes, Dmitri knew the real Anastasia really well!!! He was the only one of the Leuchtenberg children who was almost hostile to AA and went as far as lying about Kastritsky and AA's behaviour in church. His father, the Duke of Leuchtenberg, wrote that AA knew Russian perfectly well, but an inhibition prevented her from speaking it. (She actually spoke quite a bit of Russian at Seeon.) He also said that she understands, speaks and writes English. As for Lugano, see Rathlef's book.

Quote:
Olga A.

When Olga entered the room, the woman lying on a bed asked a nurse: “Ist das die Tante?”[Is this the Aunt?] “That”, confessed Olga, “at once took me aback.
This is pure fiction according to those who were there. AA did not say a word when Olga entered the room, she just "turned red and looked happy". Afterwords, Zahle asked her why she had not said anything when Olga came in. And as you might remember, Frau Rathlef sent her manuscript to Olga for approval, and got it.

Quote:
My nieces knew no German at all. Mrs Anderson did not seem to understand a word of Russian or English, the two languages all the four sisters had spoken since babyhood. French came a little later, but German was never spoken in the family."
And as we all know, they all learned German in school. They obviously did not speak it well, but neither did AA.

Quote:
"It was not the English of someone who had spoken English since childhood as Anastasia did."
Quote:
said the English writer, Michael Thornton, when he met her in 1960. "The accent was Germanic, the sentence structure German, the grammar hopeless."
Yes, after having lived half her life in Germany

Quote:
Dave Howey, who met Anderson, by then Mrs. Manahan, when he was a cadet at a Virginia military academy in 1977, wrote of their meeting that "Her husband talked for her since she spoke very little English. Her only functional language was German, her Russian having been wiped out, we were told, as a result of the trauma from seeing her family gunned down in the cellar of a house in Ekaterinburg, Russia."
We all know how Mr. Manahan made excuses for her when she did not want to speak to strangers. She spoke perfect English, as we all have heard on the few programs with her. And just think of all the Miliukoff tapes, nothing but English there. If she were FS, she would have spoken GOOD German without any accent, she would have understood and talked Low German as well like Felix did, and she would have spoken neither English nor Russian like AA did in already in the early 20's.
__________________
  #2085  
Old 10-23-2008, 10:27 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Yes, she answered in German to any language when in Germany.
In a room alone with Felix, a native Russian speaker?! If she were AN, why not use Russian? Answer: SHE WAS FS!

Quote:
This is pure fiction according to those who were there.
Olga was there, and I believe her.

Quote:
Yes, after having lived half her life in Germany
If someone learns English first, that would be the basis of their grammar and structure. This doesn't change when you learn other languages. I've known several German women who married American GIs and have been here for 60 years yet still have German accents and grammar structure.

Quote:
She spoke perfect English, as we all have heard on the few programs with her.
LOL. I have heard her talk on those tapes, her English was ATROCIOUS!

Quote:
If she were FS, she would have spoken GOOD German without any accent
How do you know how she'd sound?

Quote:
she would have spoken neither English nor Russian like AA did in already in the early 20's.
AA DID NOT SPEAK RUSSIAN OR ENGLISH IN THE EARLY 20s!(just like FS!) I have even posted you extensive proof. You just refuse to accept it.
__________________
  #2086  
Old 10-23-2008, 11:34 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
In a room alone with Felix, a native Russian speaker?! If she were AN, why not use Russian? Answer: SHE WAS FS!c
Where on earth did you get the idea that they met in a room alone? Professor Rudnev went to her room to tell her that he was there with Felix, and she only consented to see him in the garden in the company of Rudnev and the Duke of Leuchtenberg.

Quote:
Olga was there, and I believe her.
Yes, Olga was there, but Vorres was not. And the story he tells, is very, very different from the one told by the eyewitnesses. And as Olga wrote to Frau Rathlef: Her account was quite correct.

Quote:
If someone learns English first, that would be the basis of their grammar and structure. This doesn't change when you learn other languages. I've known several German women who married American GIs and have been here for 60 years yet still have German accents and grammar structure.
I think the kids learned Russian first.

Quote:
LOL. I have heard her talk on those tapes, her English was ATROCIOUS!
I have heard those tapes too, and her English was not atrocious at all.

Quote:
How do you know how she'd sound?
She was a NATIVE German speaker. Got it?

Quote:
AA DID NOT SPEAK RUSSIAN OR ENGLISH IN THE EARLY 20s!(just like FS!) I have even posted you extensive proof. You just refuse to accept it.
According to affidavit from Erna Bucholz, she spoke Russian like a native. According to Professor Rudnev and Conrad Wahl, she spoke English. Now, where is your extensive proof?
__________________
  #2087  
Old 10-24-2008, 05:01 AM
tian's Avatar
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ---, Finland
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
Thank you, Tian. What exactly does the diary say about Anastasia getting her own regiment?
Not much. On the occasion of Anastasia's birthday appointed her as the chief of 148th Infantry Caspian regiment.
__________________
  #2088  
Old 10-24-2008, 10:21 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by tian View Post
Not much. On the occasion of Anastasia's birthday appointed her as the chief of 148th Infantry Caspian regiment.
Well, I guess nobody will call the Tsar a spellbinding diarist. But thank you for your posting.
__________________
  #2089  
Old 10-24-2008, 10:56 AM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
Where on earth did you get the idea that they met in a room alone? Professor Rudnev went to her room to tell her that he was there with Felix, and she only consented to see him in the garden in the company of Rudnev and the Duke of Leuchtenberg.
Oh, so once again she refuses to see someone without a supporter present! Just like when she refused to go without T. Botkin. Sounds fishy! It sounds doubly fishy that if she were really a native Russian speaker and another native Russian speaker asked her a question in Russian, that she would use German instead. Clearly she used it because it was her best language (because she was FS)



Quote:
Yes, Olga was there, but Vorres was not. And the story he tells, is very, very different from the one told by the eyewitnesses. And as Olga wrote to Frau Rathlef: Her account was quite correct.
Are you calling Olga and Vorres liars? And you said yourself, Olga didn't read German well so she didn't really read the stuff sent by Rathlef.



Quote:
I think the kids learned Russian first.
I'm saying the real AN learned English before German (and barely learned German at all)



Quote:
I have heard those tapes too, and her English was not atrocious at all.
Well they're out there for all to see and hear, and they're atrocious. ("dirt I was living!")



Quote:
She was a NATIVE German speaker. Got it?
Actually she was also a native Polish speaker, but knew German, and this is why as AA she chose to use it most of the time. As Dmitri L. said, (when arriving at Seeon) she did not speak or understand Russian; she did not speak or understand English, except for what she learned from lessons taken in Lugano and in Obersdorf before coming to Seeon; she did not speak or understand French. She spoke only German with a north German accent.



Quote:
According to affidavit from Erna Bucholz, she spoke Russian like a native. According to Professor Rudnev and Conrad Wahl, she spoke English. Now, where is your extensive proof?
I have much more valid and realistic 'according to's' just a few posts back, did you forget them already? (post #2083)
__________________
  #2090  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:19 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Valid and realistic? Somehow, I don't connect those words with your posts. See above.
__________________
  #2091  
Old 10-24-2008, 12:39 PM
AGRBear's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, United States
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
.. [ in part]....

If someone learns English first, that would be the basis of their grammar and structure. This doesn't change when you learn other languages. I've known several German women who married American GIs and have been here for 60 years yet still have German accents and grammar structure.
Your little stories always make me smile. And, you know I always have my own stories to match yours. Sure, a person can find examples of Germans who have migr. to the USA and who never lost their German accent. And, you've named two. Well, my whole family (paternal and maternal) relatives and friends migr. from Russia. Their first language was German. Some never lost their accent while others have. You'd never be able to tell that both my parents spoke German first. All of my family speak only English, now, and probably couldn't speak German if they tried. Sure they'd know a few words and probably if they were around Germans for a couple of weeks they'd speak it but poorly. Plus, it's a gutteral language and it's exhausting to push out the German words for a long period of time if you're not use to speaking it. My mother can switch back and forth with ease. My Dad has lost his German completely.

Now, this isn't as true with the relatives who live in the mid-west such as the Dakotas. Some towns sound like little Germany. Although, this is starting to change with the younger generation because they are going away to college and after four years are not as inclined to use German. Many are not returning to the small town where they grew-up. Often they marry outsiders, whom they've met while away, who don't speak German.

Remember, AA was submerged in Germany for quite some time.

It's been too long since I've heard AA speak on film. I do recall her saying, "How shall I tell you who I am." I was struck by her English because a German would have twisted the English around to something like, "Who am I? I can not tell you." So, the words would not have given the same dramatic affect.

Did my relatives speak Russian? Yes. When Alex. III demanded everything be Russianized because he had seen German-Russians were starting to dominate the list of officers in the army and as other officials, he passed a decree that ALL schools be taught by Russian teachers and that the Russian language was to be used. Other languages like German could be spoken but there was a time limit given during each day. One acception was in the old Polish areas, the Poles could not speak Polish in school at any time. Some German-Russians went as far as Russianizing their names.

Like Chat, I do know there are testimonies of all kinds about what AA spoke and what she didn't speak. I tend to believe the first people (nurses and docotors) who were around AA at Dalldorf. I see no reason why they should lie. They had nothing to gain. Also, some testified in AA's trial so we have exactly what they said in the German court.

When Felix stated that AA could speak "good German" he was indicating she was also speaking High German which was being taught in schools at that time. The teachers and religious leaders wanted to nationalize one single language so all the Germans could understand each other. They rediculed their student who spoke Low and Middle German in hopes it would shame them into thinking their dialect was inferior and they'd speak High German.

When the Nazi collected AA and FS's silbings togather, it was recorded that AA had a hard time understanding FS's silbing's Low German and that she replied in High German when she did reply.

Speaking of the Nazis. I find it interesting that Hilter became interested in AA and demanded that his men find out if AA really was the GD Anastasia. The Nazis had every advantage of discovering the truth and often times they even forced what wasn't true to be true. AA was never declared a fraud by the Nazis.

Yes, there was one policeman who signed some document stating that he believed AA was FS but we've gone over this before and I'll have to freshen my memory because I've forgotten the details and why I had the opinion that this was not evidence that I'd take to court with me to prove AA was FS.

AGRBear
__________________
"Truth ever lovely-- since the world began.
The foe of tyrants, and the friend of man."
  #2092  
Old 10-24-2008, 01:47 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Your little stories always make me smile.
Yours too bear!

I was going to go back and add though that those women were fluent in English, not atrocious like AA. Of course no one you or I know had anything to do with AA/FS who clearly learned English as an adult and was never good at it.

Quote:
AA was never declared a fraud by the Nazis.
If her family had claimed her, she would have been declared a fraud, and likely been sent to a death camp since FS was declared insane. This was another reason they knew they had to deny her. Who would expose their sister knowing it would mean jail and/or death? But what else could they do? FS really put her family through a lot of stress and worry over her claim to be AN.

Quote:
Yes, there was one policeman who signed some document stating that he believed AA was FS
It was actually making it official for the entire Berlin PD. His name was Heinz Drescher.

Hess. Polizeiamten Darmstadt, 20.5.27
"Erkennungsdienst" [Identification Service]
"Referring to the so-called Anastasia of Russia"
"From the Berlin daily report ["Tagesbericht"] No. 32 of 20.4.27 it is signed and signified officially as established that the identity of the `Unbekannte' has been completely assured as being that of Franziska Schanzkowska by the `Kriminalzentrale' of Darmstadt.
"All of this has been taken up and accepted by the police of Berlin."
__________________
  #2093  
Old 10-24-2008, 01:51 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
Valid and realistic? Somehow, I don't connect those words with your posts. See above.
< ed: Warren >
Looking at it rationally and objectively, who was right? First, the fact that AA turned out not to be AN, and was most likely FS fits right in with what everyone I posted said. One of the biggest reasons for the denials by Olga, Bux and Gilliard was her lack of the skills in the languages AN knew well, using only a language AN barely knew. This really does override some random supporter's claim that she knew language x when clearly she did not. Again, the language things go strongly against AA, so you'd be best to just move onto something else, you can't win this one.
__________________
  #2094  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:03 PM
AGRBear's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, United States
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Yours too bear!

I was going to go back and add though that those women were fluent in English, not atrocious like AA. Of course no one you or I know had anything to do with AA/FS who clearly learned English as an adult and was never good at it.
AWF,

Please, assume no such thing. You have no idea who I am, who I've known or know. So, let's just say: I've known Germans who migr. to the USA as adults and their English is better than mine.

As for Drescher Heinz of the Berlin Police Dept. who claimed he signed papers that proved AA was FS, I have the following thoughts:
1) He may have been telling the truth but what was that proof?
2) So, if there was such documents, why didn't the Romanov lawyers, who opposed AA's claim, present them in AA's trial? They didn't, soooooooo,
3) what happen to the documents which give us this proof?

AGRBear
__________________
"Truth ever lovely-- since the world began.
The foe of tyrants, and the friend of man."
  #2095  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:16 PM
Anna was Franziska's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Richmond, United States
Posts: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRBear View Post
AWF,

Please, assume no such thing. You have no idea who I am, who I've known or know. So, let's just say: I've known Germans who migr. to the USA as adults and their English is better than mine.
I assume nothing about you, or your friends, only AA because she was FS and learned English as an adult. We even now have a witness to her lessons, Dmitri Leuchtenberg! Others likely knew of them but didn't tell.

Quote:
As for Drescher Heinz of the Berlin Police Dept. who claimed he signed papers that proved AA was FS, I have the following thoughts:
1) He may have been telling the truth but what was that proof?
2) So, if there was such documents, why didn't the Romanov lawyers, who opposed AA's claim, present them in AA's trial? They didn't, soooooooo,
3) what happen to the documents which give us this proof?

AGRBear
He didn't claim, this was official. It actually came from Kurth. I don't know why it wasn't used as proof during the trial. I don't know where it is now, ask Kurth.
__________________
  #2096  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
All you have to do, is to read Kurth, and you will find out that Fritz Shuhricht went down to the Berlin police to investigate, and it turned out that they did not know more than he did. The Darmstadt police stated that THEY did not make the identification. It actually came from Martin Knopf, and nobody else wanted to take responsibility. And as we know, AA was never given a passport under the name of Franzisca Schanzkowska. The Berlin police were willing to arrest Doris Wingender for making false claims as soon as Gleb Botkin would file a complaint. So much for the identification.
__________________
  #2097  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:33 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
I assume nothing about you, or your friends, only AA because she was FS and learned English as an adult. We even now have a witness to her lessons, Dmitri Leuchtenberg! Others likely knew of them but didn't tell.
A witness to her lessons. Oh my God, we have made a whole new discovery here. Call the press!
If you have read Kurth, maybe you remember Faith Lavington who was asked by AA to study English with her. In her diary Miss Lavington wrote: It is clear to see that she knows English very well, the trouble is to get her to speak. When she did, I was amazed of the purity of her accent.
But we already know that AA spoke English long before Seeon.
__________________
  #2098  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
She could speak Chinese or Turkish, in fact any language with any accent you care to think of, but her dna shows she isn´t who she claimed she was so what is the use of going on with this farcical argument?
__________________
  #2099  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
She could speak Chinese or Turkish, in fact any language with any accent you care to think of, but her dna shows she isn´t who she claimed she was so what is the use of going on with this farcical argument?
< ed Warren: removed smarty-pants remark to another member >
No matter who AA was, the story is fascinating. And personally, I do not think at all that she was FS. Of course, that is only my opinion, but some people seem to get very upset at those whose opinion differs from their own. But then again, if nobody wanted to protect the young and the helpless from people like me, there would be no discussion about this subject, would it! So sit up straight and take notes. Who knows, you might learn something.
__________________
  #2100  
Old 10-24-2008, 02:58 PM
AGRBear's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, United States
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
... [ in part]...

He didn't claim, this was official. It actually came from Kurth. I don't know why it wasn't used as proof during the trial. I don't know where it is now, ask Kurth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatNoir View Post
All you have to do, is to read Kurth, and you will find out that Fritz Shuhricht went down to the Berlin police to investigate, and it turned out that they did not know more than he did. The Darmstadt police stated that THEY did not make the identification. It actually came from Martin Knopf, and nobody else wanted to take responsibility. And as we know, AA was never given a passport under the name of Franzisca Schanzkowska. The Berlin police were willing to arrest Doris Wingender for making false claims as soon as Gleb Botkin would file a complaint. So much for the identification.

Although Peter Kurth believes that AA was GD Anastasia, he does not hide such information and indeed it was from one of his original post on another forum where you gained your information.

I believe he provided additional information as to the association of the House of Hess and why the head of the House, Alexandra's brother, Ernst Ludwig, was the one who had hired a detective, Martin Knopf, to prove AA was not GD Anastasia. Some or all of this information Drescher had may have been from Knopf.

I don't believe Knopf testitied in AA's trial. Wonder why? Was he still living? Does anyone know anything about Knopf accept that he was a detective?

Does anyone know anything about Detective Heinz Drescher?

AGRBear
__________________

__________________
"Truth ever lovely-- since the world began.
The foe of tyrants, and the friend of man."
Closed Thread

Tags
anastasia, anna anderson, dr berenberg-gossler, ekaterinburg, franziska schanzkowska, grand duchess anastasia, pierre gilliard, prince michael romanov


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grand Duke Henri & Grand Duchess Maria Teresa, Current Events 5 (June 2006-Mar 2008) Danielle Current Events Archive 203 03-04-2008 12:55 AM
Grand Duke Henri & Grand Duchess Maria Teresa, Current Events 4 (February-June 2006) Alexandria Current Events Archive 196 06-04-2006 02:14 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman poland pom pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess margriet princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:57 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]