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  #21  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:04 PM
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And coumadin didn't exist when they were alive. Fact! Also, why would the present Russians care, whether Alexis had hemophilia or not? Why would they lie? This whole chapter is ancient history. There will be no restoration and, even, if there was, who cares? There is no reaosn to lie. A good portion of Queen Victoria's male decendants were cursed with this. Or were they all being poisoned?
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly9480 View Post
Hemophilia is caused by inheriting an affected X chromosomes. If a Xx woman, who is a carrier of the disease, marries an xY male, who is affected by the disease, any daughters born of the marriage would be either Xx or xx, meaning either a carrier or a hemophiliac. It is genetically possible to be a female hemophiliac.

Hemophilia Galaxy | Your Hemophilia Information Resource | The Gist of Genetics

here is a drawing of that.
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  #23  
Old 01-30-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
Well, who WOULDN'T have psychological problems after bearing 4 girls when everybody wanted a boy?? Your status is reduced to brood mare. You come to a court that is full of intrigue and adultery and your mother-in-law competes all the time with you for the spotlight of the Russian Court and your husband's attention?
AND you have a sister-in-law (GD Xenia Alexandrovna) who gives birth to SIX boys and only one girl -- it's not not hard to imagine how AF became really paranoid about it! pk
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2008, 09:08 PM
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Of course, that was one of the reasons that made her paranoid. She, also, knew, that hemophilia ran in her family and she was the carrier. How sad. She needed to provided an heir and when she did, he was sickly and would, probably not live until the Tsar died. She was very serious about providing an heir. Actually, in all essence, that was her whole job in life and she felt she muffed it. More's the pity. She was shy and inward and became very religious. She didn't fit into the gay, fun loving, extravagant court. She was a square peg in a round hole. Yes, you are right, she had a cross to bear, so to speak. No one has ever claimed to be a grandson or granddaughter of Tsar Nicholas II, all previous Anastasias and Alexises have all been frauds.
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  #25  
Old 01-31-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
There was no coumadin. Alexandra was not being poinsoned. No one has ever stated this. She had a great many pyschlological problems. Alexandra was not hemmorahging or bleeding excessively. No documents ever stated this, including letters from Alexandra to various family members, which have been published. Rasputin was not a healer. He was a self-proclaimed mystic. Many think that Alexandra was calmed by the fact that she believed he could heal someone and effectively, that made her response to Alexis more calming and he would eventually stop hemmoraghing, by time and lack of stress.

Al Bina, you make some very cogent statements. Thank you. Your perception and thought is much appreciated.
You are correct about the coumadin. It wasn't even patented/approved for use until the 1940s...long after the Imperial family was dead. It's uses weren't even discovered until the 1920s.
Lexi
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  #26  
Old 02-25-2008, 06:42 PM
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There's a general thread on haemophilia in the European royal families in our Genealogy forum; you can find the thread here:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...lty-10254.html
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  #27  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:55 PM
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Alexei and Haemophilia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael HR View Post
Whilst confirming the gene would be interesting it actually makes little difference as Alexis is confirmed as being there with one of the Sisters and seems all are accounted for across the two pits. I have argued for some time that they should simply publish all the markers thus showing the exsistence of the IF in total so that we can now lay this sad subject to bed and move on at last.
Testing those bone fragments discovered in July 2007 for the presence of the long-suspected Factor VIII gene is not about who is present in the two pits and who is not.

That very same "New Information on Two Pits Found In July 2007" now also provides us all with the very real opportunity to find out, once and for all and with solid genetic evidence, whether or not the immensely popular but still *totally unproven* haemophilia story is actually true.

There is also the fact that Nikolai Nevolin has already committed the research team to testing those same bone fragments for evidence of that suspected faulty X-linked gene in the numerous public comments that he has made to the media over the past year and a half.

JK
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:40 AM
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I see your point and I suppose that would be interesting to confirm or not the long held theory about Alexis. Should I thought be quite easy if there is a DNA code?
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:10 PM
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JK, I realize that the reason for you doubting the hemophilia diagnosis is because the Alexei claimant you support, Heino Tammet, had some other blood disorder mistaken for hemophilia, and that has been the basis of your questioning in the past. However, now that Alexei's body has been found and identified 100% as the nuclear biological child of both N and A, and since he was the only son, it's completely proven that Tammet was not Alexei- so how could it possibly matter to you now, unless you still deny the testing? Alexei died in 1918, regardless of what disease made him bleed. Since the disease ran so strongly in Alix's family, I don't know why it would be anything else.
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  #30  
Old 12-31-2008, 04:38 PM
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Forget claimants. This is not about claimants.

This is entirely about the fact that the popular story of hemophilia in the Royal family line is clearly flawed from the very start, as was so accurately pointed out by the professors Malcolm and William Potts in their book "Queen Victoria's Gene". The Potts brothers had even gone so far as to try and explain away the most obvious of all the flaws in the haemophilia story by questioning the identity of Queen Victoria's father and claiming in their 1995 book that she may have been illegitimate.

Recent DNA research into the question of how haemophilia starts -- research that is completely unrelated to the Romanov investigation -- has now raised even more serious doubt about the story that the disease had started with Alexei's great-grandmother Victoria.

Just two weeks ago (Dec. 18th, 2008), the following article was published on the Philadelphia Inquirer website:
Beginning to crack the code of 'junk DNA' | Philadelphia Inquirer | 12/18/2008

The key part of this article is found in the following paragraphs, which very neatly explain just how a "spontaneous mutation" can happen in the Factor VIII Gene... not first in the mother ... but in the birth of the first son to carry the disease. This explanation and others like it stemming from the same research would pretty much put the crimp on any of those now popular but totally unproven claims that the suspected "spontaneous mutation" that started it all had happened first in Victoria and not in her son.

"(Prof.) Kazazian had come across three genetically unusual cases - boys with haemophilia whose Factor VIII gene was disabled by an invading piece of stray DNA. The invading DNA belonged to a specific category of the junk DNA called a transposable element. These had been observed in plants, where they had the power to act like a virus, copying themselves and jumping to new parts of the genetic code."

"Using what is called a genetic probe, he was able to find the same sequence in a line1 element in the boy's mother, but it was in a different place, on Chromosome 22. (Human chromosomes are all assigned a number except the sex chromosomes, which are labelled X and Y.) In her case, it caused no problem. Kazazian said he suspected that the line1 element jumped from her Chromosome 22 to the X chromosome either in the mother's egg cell or during an early stage in the development of the embryo that became the boy."

There is even more similar evidence from the same researchers in a paper from 1994 titled "Factor VIII gene inversions causing severe haemophilia A originate almost exclusively in male germ cells": Factor VIII gene inversions causing severe hemophilia A originate almost exclusively in male germ cells -- Rosslter et al. 3 (7): 1035 -- Human Molecular Genetics

... the key words there being... of course... "originate almost exclusively in male germ cells" which, for all intents and purposes, would practically rule out any likelihood that the "spontaneous mutation" had happened first in Victoria... or that she was ever a carrier... even if her fourth son Leopold was a sufferer of the disease.

... and if Victoria could not be a carrier... because Leopold's disease would have been caused by either a gene inversion or the phenomenon now known as "jumping DNA"... which "originate almost exclusively in *male* germ cells"... then his sisters and nieces -- including Alexandra -- could *not* have been carriers either.

Therefore, Alexei could not have been a haemophiliac.. and if they have now found Alexei, as they now claim, then they must also now follow through and test those same remains for that same genetic evidence that will now settle those still unresolved questions once and for all.

The truth about the long-suspected blood disease is now there just waiting to be found in that "New Information on Two Pits Found July 2007"... and the leading investigator from Ekaterinburg, Nikolai Nevolin, has now publicly committed the researchers to completing all of the tests that are now necessary to uncover that same truth.

Happy New Year! ;-)

JK
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  #31  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
As was posted earlier, in Nevolin's latest statement he now declares no more testing is necessary:

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....6557&PageNum=0

The outcome of today's conference is historic. The matter has been brought to a close. It has been proved using advanced research methods that the remains belong to the Romanov family," he said. "There is no point in continuing any examinations because the available results are sufficient for 100% identification," Nevolin said.
I say again... This is *not* about any of the testing that has been done for the purposes of identification. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of identification.

This is entirely about the opportunity that now exists with the discovery of those bone fragments in July 2007 of finally confirming the still *totally unproven* historical claim of whether or not Alexei was a hemophiliac... once and for all.

JK
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:57 PM
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Since we haven't asked yet, I still don't know if the test has been done yet. It may have been and it just hasn't been put in the press. We'll find out later.

But really, I doubt that anyone but Tammet supporters have ever questioned the hemophilia diagnosis, or care to find out if it was proven, so it may be unlikely they're going to bother with it.
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  #33  
Old 12-31-2008, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna was Franziska View Post
Since we haven't asked yet, I still don't know if the test has been done yet. It may have been and it just hasn't been put in the press. We'll find out later.

But really, I doubt that anyone but Tammet supporters have ever questioned the hemophilia diagnosis, or care to find out if it was proven, so it may be unlikely they're going to bother with it.
Right at the very beginning of this latest investigation, Nikolai Nevolin had stated very clearly to reporters that the genetic analysis would also reveal whether or not Alexei had suffered from haemophilia and then, right then and there, he had publicly committed the researchers to completing those tests...

From August 24th, 2007... and I quote from Nikolai Nevolin's own words: "We know that Prince Alexei suffered from haemophilia, so we we will have to detect the genome of this disease."

JK
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  #34  
Old 12-31-2008, 06:27 PM
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you do know they did say that on december 8th it was on russiatoday as well about the dna haveing the gene for hemp[i;;a
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  #35  
Old 12-31-2008, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kell View Post
you do know they did say that on december 8th it was on russiatoday as well about the dna haveing the gene for hemp[i;;a
Nothing of the sort has yet been said about the hemophilia gene in any recent public statement.
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  #36  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:30 PM
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yes it has on rt but i m not gonna get into this russiatoday has werid transltions so it could be wrong but it was stated on there they found the gene but as i said this is argueeing pickles and hairs and i dont wanna touch this witha 10 foot pole but as i m saying it s rt so it could be wrong
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  #37  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
yes it has on rt but i m not gonna get into this russiatoday has werid transltions so it could be wrong but it was stated on there they found the gene but as i said this is argueeing pickles and hairs and i dont wanna touch this witha 10 foot pole but as i m saying it s rt so it could be wrong
So, do you have the link to the article about there being something about the hemophilia gene tested, in the bones?
Possibly, it could have been a bad translation from Russian to English. Sometimes, when you have the website translating some of the sentences don't make any sense. I hope there is a article found about the hemophilia gene being tested. The point really is that those remains are positively identified as Alexei, and his bones matches Andre's Y-chromosomes.

All I have is this, from (August 7, 2008):
Russian scientists are trying to find a gene causing hemophilia in the remains discovered under Yekaterinburg on 29 July, 2007 and believed to belong to Alexei and Maria Romanovs. It is known that Alexei, son of Nicholas II Romanov, suffered from inherited hemophilia, but the gene has not been found yet. The results of DNA testing will be published in the second half of July.The first stage of the investigation showed the bones belonged to a boy aged 12-14 and a girl aged 16-18.
http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/6149/

We will just have to wait until the final results are published. Maybe the hemophilia gene testings will be there by then. I don't think the hemophilia gene testings came out yet.
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  #38  
Old 12-31-2008, 10:20 PM
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russia today news they called baggae handlers gregioans excuse the spelling and its new years eve so i m not gonna look thru youtube for the articale i know they had many bad english reports this month and it is very worrying with the translation so thats why i m not concerned if i m correct but lets all wait before we jump ahead of the train
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  #39  
Old 01-01-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
russia today news they called baggae handlers gregioans excuse the spelling and its new years eve so i m not gonna look thru youtube for the articale i know they had many bad english reports this month and it is very worrying with the translation so thats why i m not concerned if i m correct but lets all wait before we jump ahead of the train
Right. It may be a mistake in the translation. The hemophilia gene results haven't came out yet, we will just have to wait. Maybe, we should ask Dr. Coble about this? He might have more information on the hemophilia gene testings.I couldn't find any article confirming that it came out recently.
Happy New Years day, everyone! It's the start of 2009 right now!
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  #40  
Old 01-02-2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Kendrick View Post

... the key words there being... of course... "originate almost exclusively in male germ cells" which, for all intents and purposes, would practically rule out any likelihood that the "spontaneous mutation" had happened first in Victoria... or that she was ever a carrier... even if her fourth son Leopold was a sufferer of the disease.
Why would it rule out that she was a carrier? If the mutation could have happened in her son, why could it not have happened in her father? As well as the Russian royal family, haemophilia seems to have afflicted the Spanish royal family, and Leopold wasn't an ancestor of that family.
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