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  #381  
Old 03-12-2012, 06:33 PM
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It’s just a ring with family’s coat of arms. A tsarevich or a czar has to marry an Orthodox woman. A consorte Czarina has to be orthodox and of "equal birth*» (a little thing from european royalty who’s an politic opportunity). The conversion for a first Russian lady is an obligation. As for the born equality, the Russians had the solution : every royal or imperial princess "barbarian" received before the marriage her title of imperial Highness of Russia. So the Czar married officially an imperial " real " princess by the favor of Holy Spirit. Bye bye Hessen Princesses, Princesses of UK, France, Prussia, Spain etc... you aren’t enough for russian standard like your own national women aren’t enough for you.
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  #382  
Old 03-12-2012, 08:17 PM
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Right, the standard for a Russian Tsarina was so high, from a country that was so.........Run Georgi and have a real life, away from this charade.
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  #383  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:46 AM
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Grand Duchess Maria has already laid the foundations for possible changes to the succession in case Grand Duke Georgii makes an unsuitable marriage. In a 2009 interview she said that:

If my son’s chosen bride happens not to be from a ruling or sovereign house, the marriage will then require a change to the Family Statute, which only I can introduce and, in addition, would require also the blessing of the Orthodox Church since we are bound by a holy oath to observe the law of succession in its present form.

It will be interesting to see what would happen if it came to this.

P.S. Grand Duke Georgii is not "half-Georgian". If such divisions must be made he is quite clearly only a quarter Georgian. However, I suspect the young man himself would say he is 100% Russian.
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  #384  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:49 AM
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He wouldn't. I have met Georgi on several occasions back in Moscow and once in London; his Russian is rather poor and I certainly didn't get the impression he considers himself Russian. On the contrary, we talked (in English) about his family and heritage, and he said he is very proud of the Georgian ancestry (which, as Armenian, certainly pleased me) and German one.
Prince Rostislav Romanov (the eventual her to Prince Nicholas' claims), on the other hand, has improved his Russian no end. That young man does consider himself to be Russian, which is somewhat strange given that he's been in Russia for less than a decade.

As for changes in the Romanov House Law, Maria Vladimirovna simply cannot do that. Even if she were universally accepted and acknowledged Head of the House (which she isn't), in order to make changes in the Imperial House laws, the Empire must exist in the first place, since the permission and approval of the Duma would be required. Maria Vladimirovna can announce a private change, but that will not have any legal effect and will certainly not be recognised by any of the other Romanov dynasts.

By saying half-Georgian and half-German, I mean Maria Vladimirovna (whose mother is Georgian) and Prince Georgi (whose father is German) respectively.
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  #385  
Old 03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
he said he is very proud of the Georgian ancestry (which, as Armenian, certainly pleased me) and German one.
The former does not surprise me, but the latter does as he rarely, if ever, mentions his father in public. But obviously his personal feelings must be otherwise.
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  #386  
Old 03-13-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
As for changes in the Romanov House Law, Maria Vladimirovna simply cannot do that. Even if she were universally accepted and acknowledged Head of the House (which she isn't), in order to make changes in the Imperial House laws, the Empire must exist in the first place, since the permission and approval of the Duma would be required. Maria Vladimirovna can announce a private change, but that will not have any legal effect and will certainly not be recognised by any of the other Romanov dynasts.
Maria can change the Pauline Laws, which have no legal effect anywhere, anytime she wants to. Whether they are accepted or recognized is another matter altogether. Since the rest of the family does not accept her as Head of the Imperial House nor do any of them follow the Laws, the matter is irrelevant.

I do not believe she will accept an unequal marriage for Georgi. It would call into question her claim even further and weaken her branch's position as the only line still unblemished by unequal marriages.
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  #387  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:27 PM
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Other non-reigning royal houses have changed their laws such as the Austrians, but not amicably since it always goes over badly with people affected by the previous law. You do not need the government's approval when you are a pretender, just when you have some official role. However, it will be up to the government who they recognize, if they ever recognize someone as the would-be monarch. This may come down to a PR battle if Georgi marries a commoner.


Maria and Georgi have the Gotha, church, and recognition of other monarchies right now. While Rostislav is trying to appear more Russian and be the man of the people - living there and speaking the language well. Rostislav could up the stakes if he can accomplish wht Georgi has not and marry a royal or even noble with Russian blood.


While Rostislav's mother was a commoner and not Russian; on his father's side is a Galitzine grandma and a Russian royal grandpa who is the son of two Russian royals - one the sister of the Tsar. If he hooks up with another Russian royal/noble -
Tolstoy, Yusupov, Paley, Obolensky, Belosselsky, Khilkoff, etc it will be like throwing down the gauntlet and this becomes a chess match. Rostislav may want to hunt down the Austrian Galitzine girls who also have Russian grandmas (Lopukhin, Czernichev-Besobrasov = 3/4 Russian blueblood); or a Russian princess such as the Romanovsky-Ilyinskys.
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  #388  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:49 PM
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I would love to see him marry a non-Russian, non-Orthodox, non-heiress, commoner just to see what his mother would try to do to make it all OK so that she could maintain the pretensions to the long lost throne, and also to see the rebuttal from the other members of the Romanov family. It would be quite funny to watch.
I just hope when he tells her of his choice that he has a medical team on standby.
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  #389  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
I would love to see him marry a non-Russian, non-Orthodox, non-heiress, commoner
Quote:
I just hope when he tells her of his choice that he has a medical team on standby.
I don't think Mumkins would handle it well if he ended up marrying someone who isn't Russian or Orthodox or at least royal.

Quote:
While Rostislav's mother was a commoner and not Russian; on his father's side is a Galitzine grandma and a Russian royal grandpa who is the son of two Russian royals - one the sister of the Tsar. If he hooks up with another Russian royal/noble -
Tolstoy, Yusupov, Paley, Obolensky, Belosselsky, Khilkoff, etc it will be like throwing down the gauntlet and this becomes a chess match. Rostislav may want to hunt down the Austrian Galitzine girls who also have Russian grandmas (Lopukhin, Czernichev-Besobrasov = 3/4 Russian blueblood); or a Russian princess such as the Romanovsky-Ilyinskys
To be frank, as a result of his more direct lineage, Rostislav has a more direct and justifible claim than say, Georgi who has in fact no direct descent from Nicholas II that is as close as Rostislav has. If Rostislav marries a Russian, a commoner Russian, it would end up with him actually tying himself to his country and then ending up with a more impessive PR tactic. If he marries a Romanovsky-Ilyinskys, then I am sure that it will end up unting another branch with his side and then grouping everyone against Maria and her twit son.

Quote:
Prince Rostislav Romanov (the eventual her to Prince Nicholas' claims), on the other hand, has improved his Russian no end. That young man does consider himself to be Russian, which is somewhat strange given that he's been in Russia for less than a decade.
I think Rostislav is a lot more interested in Russia as in living there, not at all just using it as a platform for the occasional appearance. Anyway, he probably only just moved there now that it has been considered safe enough, which is qutie frankly a wise choice. He is the first Romanov to have moved there and I frankly think that it is best that he assume headship. The other monarchies might not recognize him, but he has the family behind him, not just the PR or press or Kremlin. The Gotha might recognize Maria, but it does not mean that it will work out in reality.
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  #390  
Old 03-14-2012, 03:16 AM
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There are Russian nobles that have lived or are living in Russia too. The Austrian Galitzine family lived there from 1997-2008 when Peter Galitzine took a job in Chicago. One went to University in Belgium and now china; not sure where the others are. There are Obolenskys, Lermontovs, and Troitskaya-Mirkovichs living there trying to get their homes back. Otherwise they don't make the news much, but there are potential noble brides who have grown up or are living in Russia.
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  #391  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:15 AM
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I just wonder if any would be willing to marry Georgi because he is part of teh rival faction, not at all part of the nobility in the sense taht Rostislav is. It sounds to me like the rest of the nobility is against Maria, Georgi, and their pretensions.
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  #392  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I just wonder if any would be willing to marry Georgi because he is part of teh rival faction, not at all part of the nobility in the sense taht Rostislav is. It sounds to me like the rest of the nobility is against Maria, Georgi, and their pretensions.
I doubt anyone seriously gives too much consideration to Maria's pretensions to the throne or the infighting within the Romanov family, other than historical curiousity.
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  #393  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:56 AM
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I'm not talking about the perspectives of the rest of the world outside the infighting among the Romanovs.
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  #394  
Old 03-14-2012, 02:43 PM
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Tgem what are you talking about?
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  #395  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:33 PM
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They should get their own reality show "Who wants to be an Empress" or "Survivor: The Russian Empire" and just fight it out amongst each other.
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  #396  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:24 AM
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I don't think there are any princesses out there that are willing to do this, no matter how alluring the Pretender title is. The standards and self imposed expectations are way out of line in consideration how little Georgi has to offer.
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  #397  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Maria can change the Pauline Laws, which have no legal effect anywhere, anytime she wants to. Whether they are accepted or recognized is another matter altogether. Since the rest of the family does not accept her as Head of the Imperial House nor do any of them follow the Laws, the matter is irrelevant.

I do not believe she will accept an unequal marriage for Georgi. It would call into question her claim even further and weaken her branch's position as the only line still unblemished by unequal marriages.
If she changes the Pauline Laws, then what is the point of being a monarch if certain standards are not held to be inviolable.
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  #398  
Old 03-16-2012, 05:48 PM
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She may not have a choice. If Georgi cannot find a royal bride (which may be quite difficult for him), she may have to allow morganatic marriage given the reality that it is no longer easy to find a royal willing to enter a union with the House.
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  #399  
Old 03-19-2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
They should get their own reality show "Who wants to be an Empress" or "Survivor: The Russian Empire" and just fight it out amongst each other.
That would probably get very high ratings.
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  #400  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:55 PM
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If he were to marry a non Russian would she then have to convert To Russian orthodoxy and become princess or grand duchess styled HIH?
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