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  #81  
Old 08-20-2016, 01:02 AM
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As much as the idea of resorting the monarchy of Iran appeals (as it also does for a number of other countries) to the sensibilities of many on this forum, doing so is a legal and constitutional nightmare - what for example, do you do with property that may have been sized by the state? Former presidents? Was the republican regime that has hypothetically been abolished an illegal one and if so should there be punishment for those involved?

Iran has a lot of problems but it's current political system has the means and opportunity to grow into a stongly rooted constitutional democracy as it's got something that the old Pahlavi monarchy lacks - a myth of blood sacrifice and popular mandate. Too many of the present Islamic republics critics and detractors get hung up on the Islamic part and overlook the republican elements of Iran. These republican aspects along with the fact that Iran has a long history of constitutional government, however flawed, is a strong history to build on and should not be underestimated - it's hard to see how a dyansty whose main contribution to Iranian policital culture was a fairly crude authoritarianism, however well meaning, could be merged with this. (Before you reply I am aware of the economic and social reforms that were undertaken during the white revolution)

Traditionally the Iranian monarchy drew its legitimacy from irans pagan or zororastrian traditions and later from the Shahs standing as the champion and protector of Shia islam, along with the idea of Iran as a great power. The Pahlavi's abandoned this defence for their regime and in effect relied on foreign backing and to a greater or lesser extent force and coercion (although recent research shows that there were greater levels of popular support than previously conceded). This sense of having abandoned their traditional religious role along with the perception that they were foreign puppets was a major factor in undermining the Shahs legimatcy in the eyes of a lot of people in Iran, along with other factors such as the fact that the Pahlavi's were a dyansty of recent vintage - a number of upper class Iranians saw them as illegetamte and still saw the Qajar's as the legit dyansty of Iran, including Mohammed Mossadegh who was a distant relation of theirs (it was a major source of friction between him and the shah and the main reason Mohammed Reza was willing to go along with operation Ajax in 1953). As one of MR's biographers Abbas Milani has pointed out he had no doctrine of kingship to fall back on to defend the regimes existence, along with his perceived end lack of national zeal, it's not too hard to see why those disolutioned with the shah might turn to political Islam. There is of course no reason why irans exiled dynasties, both the Pahlavi's and the Qajar's could not return to Iran one day as honoured citizens but has heads of state? I don't think so.
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  #82  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:17 PM
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I don't think restoration is going to happen in our lifetime my friends. I'm sorry I just don't.

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  #83  
Old 12-30-2017, 02:26 PM
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I don't think restoration is going to happen in our lifetime my friends. I'm sorry I just don't.

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Why do you think So. Many Iranians were not even born in 1979.
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  #84  
Old 12-30-2017, 02:36 PM
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Why do you think So. Many Iranians were not even born in 1979.
And since 1979 they have been brainwashed by the ayatollahs and the mullahs. Just watching newsreels with the grotesque coronation of the "King of Kings" and the absurd celebrations in Persepolis are enough to remind the Iranians about the excesses of the monarchy.

While the royal guests were amusing themselves with Moët Pommery Rosé and the finest food from the best chefs from Paris, the Shah's secret police was hunting for opposants, to treat them with barbaric methods.

The ones born after 1979 only need YouTube to see the crazy events of a son of a military coup-leader crowning himself "King of Kings" on his Peacock Throne.
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  #85  
Old 12-30-2017, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
And since 1979 they have been brainwashed by the ayatollahs and the mullahs. Just watching newsreels with the grotesque coronation of the "King of Kings" and the absurd celebrations in Persepolis are enough to remind the Iranians about the excesses of the monarchy.

While the royal guests were amusing themselves with Moët Pommery Rosé and the finest food from the best chefs from Paris, the Shah's secret police was hunting for opposants, to treat them with barbaric methods.

The ones born after 1979 only need YouTube to see the crazy events of a son of a military coup-leader crowning himself "King of Kings" on his Peacock Throne.
It is very hard to know how the young Iranians think about the Imperial Family because there is no possibility to have a poll or to discuss freely with the people from abroad.
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  #86  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:13 PM
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I never think we will see a monarchy fully restored. Romania seems the closest. But Iran is like France, in if you are going to restore a monarchy, which monarchy do you restore? Do you restore the original monarchy? Or do you restore the military formed one?

The shah of Iran's family is certainly not the only claimants to a Persian throne. Like the Bonapartist claim to the throne of France, they are a military dictatorship who crowned themselves. There was a previous dynasty, the Qajar dynasty which was over thrown. And as far as I am aware, there are living members of the dynasty alive.

But Iran seems the furthest country away from ever restoring a monarchy. Its not simply the matter of 'we are a republic, why do we need a king/shah again?'. Iran has been ruled by religion for decades now, religion that has taught people the crimes of excess and luxuries. The thought such a country would restore a monarchy, which for most a monarchy embodies those, seems laughable IMO.

It certainly doesn't help that the word shah has the negative connotation of American control in its history.
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  #87  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:52 PM
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HIM the Shahbanou has 'tweeted' a message of support to the brave protesters who have taken to the Streets against the oppressive and brutal Theocracy in the last three days.
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  #88  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:31 PM
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When Sayef al-Khadaffi, the son of the killed Libyan leader (originally a military coup leader) crowns himself "King of Kings" then he is effectively in the same position as the late Shah. Both Sayef as the late Shah are then sons of colonels who seized power after a coup d'état. Food for thought.
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  #89  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I never think we will see a monarchy fully restored. Romania seems the closest. But Iran is like France, in if you are going to restore a monarchy, which monarchy do you restore? Do you restore the original monarchy? Or do you restore the military formed one?

The shah of Iran's family is certainly not the only claimants to a Persian throne. Like the Bonapartist claim to the throne of France, they are a military dictatorship who crowned themselves. There was a previous dynasty, the Qajar dynasty which was over thrown. And as far as I am aware, there are living members of the dynasty alive.

But Iran seems the furthest country away from ever restoring a monarchy. Its not simply the matter of 'we are a republic, why do we need a king/shah again?'. Iran has been ruled by religion for decades now, religion that has taught people the crimes of excess and luxuries. The thought such a country would restore a monarchy, which for most a monarchy embodies those, seems laughable IMO.

It certainly doesn't help that the word shah has the negative connotation of American control in its history.

That's actress Sarah Shahi's family isn't it ?
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  #90  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:46 PM
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[QUOTE=Countessmeout;2058669]I never think we will see a monarchy fully restored. Romania seems the closest. But Iran is like France, in if you are going to restore a monarchy, which monarchy do you restore? Do you restore the original monarchy? Or do you restore the military formed one?

The shah of Iran's family is certainly not the only claimants to a Persian throne. Like the Bonapartist claim to the throne of France, they are a military dictatorship who crowned themselves. There was a previous dynasty, the Qajar dynasty which was over thrown. And as far as I am aware, there are living members of the dynasty alive.

But Iran seems the furthest country away from ever restoring a monarchy. Its not simply the matter of 'we are a republic, why do we need a king/shah again?'. Iran has been ruled by religion for decades now, religion that has taught people the crimes of excess and luxuries. The thought such a country would restore a monarchy, which for most a monarchy embodies those, seems laughable IMO.

It certainly doesn't help that the word shah has the negative connotation of American control in its history.[/QUOTE

The Quadjars are less known I suppose in nowadays Iran than the Pahlavis and Reza Shah married some Quadjar Princesses too.
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  #91  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:00 PM
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Chants in support of Monarchy today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/30/iran-protests-trump-tweets
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  #92  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:44 PM
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The Quadjars are less known I suppose in nowadays Iran than the Pahlavis and Reza Shah married some Quadjar Princesses too.
Also firstborn daughter of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi - his only child with Egyptian Princess Fawzia - Princess Shahnaz married as her second husband, Khosrow Jahanbani, related to Qajars and had two children by him:

https://www.royalark.net/Persia/qajar17.htm
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  #93  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:53 PM
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Also firstborn daughter of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi - his only child with Egyptian Princess Fawzia - Princess Shahnaz married as her second husband, Khosrow Jahanbani, related to Qajars and had two children by him:

https://www.royalark.net/Persia/qajar17.htm
So the Pahlavis are related to the Quadjars.
The only ones that still have support in the country are the Pahlavis.
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  #94  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
That's actress Sarah Shahi's family isn't it ?
Sarah is the great-great granddaughter of Fath Ali Shah who ruled Iran until 1834.


Quote:
So the Pahlavis are related to the Quadjars.
The only ones that still have support in the country are the Pahlavis.
By marriage.

Reza Shah did indeed marry a member of the Quadjar dynasty. His 4th wife Esmat was a member of the dynasty on both sides, her parents were cousins. Esmat was mother of five of his children. But his son Mohammed, so was the last shah of Iran, was the son of his third wife Tadj, who was the daughter of a prominent general.

The closest link to the main line of the Pahlavis would be the sultan's female line grandson Keykhosrow Jahanbani. He is the only son of Princess Shahnaz and her second husband Khosrow. Khosrow is the great-great grandson of the same former Quadjar ruler as Sarah Shahi is.

I guess instead of the line of the former shah, we could look to his younger siblings' lines, those whose mother was a Quadjar.
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  #95  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I never think we will see a monarchy fully restored. Romania seems the closest. But Iran is like France, in if you are going to restore a monarchy, which monarchy do you restore? Do you restore the original monarchy? Or do you restore the military formed one?

The shah of Iran's family is certainly not the only claimants to a Persian throne. Like the Bonapartist claim to the throne of France, they are a military dictatorship who crowned themselves. There was a previous dynasty, the Qajar dynasty which was over thrown. And as far as I am aware, there are living members of the dynasty alive.... [snipped]
I agree with your opinion. Iranians are said to want a person, who would be similar to the late Mr Mossadegh, to be a leader.
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  #96  
Old 12-31-2017, 02:59 AM
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I agree with your opinion. Iranians are said to want a person, who would be similar to the late Mr Mossadegh, to be a leader.
But yesterday young people in different cities had slogans in favour of the Monarchy and of the Shah.
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  #97  
Old 12-31-2017, 12:38 PM
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It is largely irrelevant what young people chanted in different cities. The ruling military elite does not support Reza Pahlavi.
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  #98  
Old 12-31-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

It is largely irrelevant what young people chanted in different cities. The ruling military elite does not support Reza Pahlavi.
We hardly know that. It is obvious some of the young people are in favour of Monarchy.
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  #99  
Old 12-31-2017, 02:24 PM
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"... some of the young people" are not a key indicator of the restoration support. This discussion, like all the restoration discussions, is doomed to run round in circles.
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  #100  
Old 12-31-2017, 09:36 PM
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"... some of the young people" are not a key indicator of the restoration support. This discussion, like all the restoration discussions, is doomed to run round in circles.
It is for the first time foreign newspapers speak about young people supporting publicly Monarchy in Iran.
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