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  #41  
Old 06-16-2005, 01:44 PM
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With her dark hair and piercing emerald gaze, Soraya was often described as an Ava Gardner look-a-like.
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  #42  
Old 06-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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Thanks for creating the thread and to post those interesting pictures:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge
With her dark hair and piercing emerald gaze, Soraya was often described as an Ava Gardner look-a-like.
I agree with you that she looks alike Ava Gardner...Soraya was a beautiful woman...I've read somewhere that it was very dificult (and painful) time for the shah when he has to divorce her under-pressured to find other woman and get a son and future regent of the pahlevy dynasty..
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  #43  
Old 06-17-2005, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galuhcandrakirana
Thanks for creating the thread and to post those interesting pictures:)
I agree with you that she looks alike Ava Gardner...Soraya was a beautiful woman...I've read somewhere that it was very dificult (and painful) time for the shah when he has to divorce her under-pressured to find other woman and get a son and future regent of the pahlevy dynasty..
According to the telefilm (so this might not be 100% accurate), the Shah's family and his government pressured him to arrange a temporary marriage with another woman to produce an heir. Soraya would have legally remained queen, but she refused.
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  #44  
Old 06-17-2005, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge
According to the telefilm (so this might not be 100% accurate), the Shah's family and his government pressured him to arrange a temporary with another woman to produce an heir. Soraya would have legally remain queen, but she refused.
In Soraya's first auto-bio she does claims this very thing, but considering herself European, she wouldn't allow it.
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2005, 12:39 PM
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I dont think her title was Her Serene Highness ever,to make sure I looked at some of my granma's old magazines and saw that everywhere she was called as Her Majesty.
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  #46  
Old 06-21-2005, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute_girl
I dont think her title was Her Serene Highness ever,to make sure I looked at some of my granma's old magazines and saw that everywhere she was called as Her Majesty.
She was never a Serene Highness, but was an Imperial Highness. After their divorce, the Shah made her a princess of Iran, so she was known as HIH Princess Soraya of Iran until her death.
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:05 PM
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I was wondering, does anyone have the complete speech of the Shah's announcement of his divorce? I don't know why it didn't occur to me before to look for it, but he mentions that he is divorcing "the love of [his] life" which caught my attention.
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpressRouge
She was never a Serene Highness, but was an Imperial Highness. After their divorce, the Shah made her a princess of Iran, so she was known as HIH Princess Soraya of Iran until her death.
I've always wondered why the title of iranian queens in english are said to start with imperial.the title they were called in Iran is "her majesty" and "imperial highness" is quite a diffrent title.
for example in english texts I always see Farah's title as Empress Farah though in Iran she was called "Her majesty Shahbanoo Farah".in persian an Empress is an Emperor's wife and Shah was never an empreror,he was a king.
does anyone know of a reason for this diffrence?
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  #49  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Malka
I was wondering, does anyone have the complete speech of the Shah's announcement of his divorce? I don't know why it didn't occur to me before to look for it, but he mentions that he is divorcing "the love of [his] life" which caught my attention.
A small excerpt of the Shah's radio announcement from Le Palais des Solitudes (personally translates, so forgive me):
"I am very unhappy...that I have to divorce my wife with whom...I could not have a child. People of Iran, I have you to give you a son..."

I'm gonna check out what her other autobio has on the speech. That one was written earlier, just a few years after the divorce, so there might be more in there.
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  #50  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute_girl
I've always wondered why the title of iranian queens in english are said to start with imperial.the title they were called in Iran is "her majesty" and "imperial highness" is quite a diffrent title.
for example in english texts I always see Farah's title as Empress Farah though in Iran she was called "Her majesty Queen Farah".in persian an Empress is an Emperor's wife and Shah was never an empreror,he was a king.
does any of know a reason for this diffrence?
From wikipedia: Farah Pahlavi was crowned Shahbanu in the coranation of Tehran in 1967. "She was Queen from her marriage to the Shah in 1959, and in 1967 was the first Empress of Iran to be crowned in modern times. The end of the monarchy in 1979 made her the last such royal."
"Shahbanu means Empress in Persian. It was a title that was only conferred on the third wife of Muhammed Reza Pahlavi, Farah Diba in 1967. She was the first Empress to be crowned in Iran, excluding the two Sassanian empresses Purandokht and Azarmidokht circa 630 A.D. Previous wives of Iranian Emperors were known as Malika or Queen.
"Shah from the Old Persian word khshathra-pava "king", popularly referred to as "satrap" by the Greeks, is the Persian term for a monarch and used by the former rulers of Persia (present-day Iran) as well as the rulers of the Persian Empire. The title roughly translates as Emperor in English as the monarch of Persia was technically the Emperor of the Persian Empire (later the Empire of Iran as Iran was officially known until 1935."

Hope that helps :)
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  #51  
Old 06-24-2005, 02:54 PM
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so wikipedias can be wrong and are not trustable ,shahbanou doesnt mean empress it means "the king's wife" and in persian language and culture a shahbanou is certainly less than a queen.
anyway it was kind of you to search it in a wikipedia.
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  #52  
Old 06-24-2005, 10:17 PM
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Wikipedias are usually correct when it comes to objective, basic facts. More detailed and opinioned articles tend to have "neutrality" problems. The Shah's title can be confusing: Farah Diba in her autobiography called him "king," and his wives were often called "Queen of Persia." But I'm pretty sure about the Shah being an "Imperial Majesty" because of the Persian Empire, and that Soraya was created and called an Her Imperial Highness Princess Soraya of Iran after their divorce as you can see on the cover of her first autobiography. There are numerous other sources that can atest to their titles; I merely quoted wikipedia because it was a good quick summary of the subject.
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  #53  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:33 AM
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Lightbulb Persian Titles

Hello Everyone,

I am old enough to remember Fawzia, Soraya and Farah as the wives of The Shah.
Fawzia and Soraya were Queens of Iran and then both were given the title Imperial Princesses after their divorces. Fawzia returned to Egypt to live and Soraya went to France.
Shahnaz, The Shah's daughter, and Shams and Ashraf, The Shah's sisters, were also Imperial Princesses.
Taj ol-Molouk, The Shah's mother, was Queen and then Queen Mother.
Farah Diba was Queen upon her marriage and then titled Empress at her coronation. I believe I read a news report at the time that it was an honour given to her by The Shah for producing two sons and as recognition for her being "the mother of the Iranian people".....
As the monarch is the font of all honours in their countries, he was well within his rights to elevate his wife in this way.
She certainly was very popular with the Iranians and noted for her great charity work. She was the first Empress of Iran, and the last, I guess. Too bad!

Hope this helps...... :)

Regards,
Larry
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  #54  
Old 06-27-2005, 11:45 AM
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thank you both for the explanations,but it still seems very strange to me that iranian princesses/queens used another title in persian which is not a translation of Imperial.
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  #55  
Old 06-28-2005, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cute_girl
thank you both for the explanations,but it still seems very strange to me that iranian princesses/queens used another title in persian which is not a translation of Imperial.
Im confused now - which title isnt translated as imperial?

As i understand the style was Imperial Highness for Prince & Princeses and Imperial Majesty for the Shah and his wives (although possibly shortened to just Majesty for ease).

Meanwhile the Shah (aka King) as even Farrah refferes to him, again was a polite abrieviation of his real title The Shahanshah (King of Kings = Emperor). However as women were not considered equal in law in Iran until the late 1960s, and no female was ever crowned Empress until the 1960s, the wives of the Shah had the title Queen, with the style Their Imperial Majesty Queen (name) of Iran.

A little similar is that although soverigns of the British Empire, British monarchs were never Imperial Majesties or Emperors of the British Empire (with the exception of India) and always known as King or Queen. I might be wrong but I dont think their was a female equivelent to Keiser either... Althouhg the title Keiser referes to the German Emperor, I have only ever heard of their wives being called Empress.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:36 AM
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German Empress

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Originally Posted by Splodger
I might be wrong but I dont think there was a female equivelent to Keiser either... Although the title Keiser referes to the German Emperor, I have only ever heard of their wives being called Empress.
The German Emperor was Kaiser, and the Empress was Kaiserin.
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  #57  
Old 06-28-2005, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
The German Emperor was Kaiser, and the Empress was Kaiserin.
.
I am learning something new every message i post today - thanks Warren, although i still have never heard of them being called a Kaiserin.
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  #58  
Old 06-29-2005, 04:14 AM
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All in the translation

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Originally Posted by Splodger
I am learning something new every message i post today - thanks Warren, although i still have never heard of them being called a Kaiserin.
I think it's because we tend to translate into English some terms, but leave others in their original form; eg "Tsar Nicholas and Empress Alexandra", "Kaiser Wilhelm and Empress Auguste Viktoria" etc. And in the English-speaking world we tend to use the word "Kaiser" to refer specifically to Wilhelm II; we don't usually say "Kaiser Franz Josef of Austria", although it is just as accurate as "Emperor Francis Joseph", or having-it-both-ways "Emperor Franz Josef". Take your pick!
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  #59  
Old 06-29-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splodger
Im confused now - which title isnt translated as imperial?
Meanwhile the Shah (aka King) as even Farrah refferes to him, again was a polite abrieviation of his real title The Shahanshah (King of Kings = Emperor). However as women were not considered equal in law in Iran until the late 1960s, and no female was ever crowned Empress until the 1960s, the wives of the Shah had the title Queen, with the style Their Imperial Majesty Queen (name) of Iran.
I know this is going to be very mixed up,but see shahanshah doesnt mean "king of kings" the word you mean is "shahshahan".
and Farah wasnt a queen she was always called shahbano which means king's wife.because of her past she couldnt become a queen.
"imperial majesty" and "her majesty" are two diffrent words and you cant shorten the titles in persian as they can be in english. I hope u understand this.
maybe after exile pahlavis made a fake title to raise their profile.
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  #60  
Old 06-29-2005, 12:32 PM
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I went through some very old books of my grandma's and in a handbook named "every thing about Pahlavi generation" I found the full titiles of the pahlavi royal family.anything else they're called is false,I rather searched every history book and titles sources I could and no where I found the title of "imperial.." for pahlavis.
here are the full titiles:
His Royal Majesty King Mohammad Reza=A'ala Hazrat Homayouni Shahanshah Mohammad Reza
Her Majesty Queen Mother Tajolmolouk=Olya Hazrat Malekeh Madar(she was a queen)
Her Majesty King's spouse Farah=Olya Hazrat Shahbanou Farah(she was not a queen)
His Royal Highness Reza,the CrownPrince=Vala Hazrat Vali'ahd Shahzadeh Reza
His Royal Highness Prince...=Vala Hazrat Shahpour....(the title of king's brothers and other sons)
Her Royal Highness Princess...=Vala Hazrat Shahdokht...(title of king's daughters and sisters)
Her Royal Highness Princess...=Vala Hazrate Padeshahi...(title of a princess by
marriage)
Her/His Highness...=Vala Gohar...(title of king's nephews and nieces by his sisters)
anyway if they had Imperial in their title they'd be Called
Aalahazrate Empratouri or Olya Hazrate empratouri and so on.
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