Royal House of Saxony (Wettin)

[MarleneKoenig]

I should add that Timo's widow has adopted several adults.

 

[Kataryn]

Theophana and her husband were divorced. Moreover, Timo, who had little contact with his children while they were growing up,as they were raised by their maternal family, was in need of money. Hermann Montanus paid Timo for a surname, just as Robert Lichtenberg did when he was adopted by Marie Auguste of Anhalt

Might be all true. But I can't see "Frederic" being invited by the Ascanians to any occasion while here, obviously, there is some sort of friendship, at least recognition.

But then, at least for me as a German commoner, the Wettins of Saxony are of no consequence any more and the way the late Margrave dealt with the succession showed me he had no respect for ancient principles as well. So good riddance now, after Albert is dead.

 

[MarleneKoenig]

Might be true? It is true. Timo was what we call the black sheep of the family. In the 1950s, he married a butcher's daughter, had two kids, and she died young. He had no real relationships with his two kids until much later as he spent a lot of time in a mental hospital.

Alexander became the heir only after the death of Prince Johannes of Saxe-coburg and Gotha, who was the son of Mathilde. He was the designated heir when it became apparent that Max Emanuel and Anastasia were unable to have children, and Albert's marriage was morganatic.

In 1997, Max Emanuel, Anastasia, Albert, his wife, Prince dedo (and also signed for his brother Gero and their stepmother, Virginia), Timo's widow and the three sisters of Max Emanuel, signed a family pact, legal document that named Alexander as heir, and head of the family. Timo's children were not party to the pact because Rudiger and Iris have never had dynastic rights.

Alexander enhanced his position by marrying Gisela of Bavaria. He is well educated and a successful businessman. Rüdiger has been in jail. his first wife killed herself, and has never been considered a dynast.

 

[Biri]

Prince Daniel of Saxony (b.23 June 1975) [oldest of three sons of late Prince Rudiger of Saxony (b.1953) & his late first wife Astrid, nee Linke (1949-1989)] & his wife Sandra, nee Scherer (b.1978) had their first child, Anna-Catharina Sophie, in Radebeul on 13 January.

Sources: Saxony
Descendants of Duke Wilhelm of Nassau

 

[wettinus]

Georg Timo Prince of Saxony, Duke of Saxony...

Might be true? It is true. Timo was what we call the black sheep of the family....

Well, that certainly ist true, but you should look at his life in and after the war, most of which is known only to his family.

Timo, as his Father and brothers, did not fight in WWII as Hitler issued a "Prinzenerlass" which meant that no members of former reigning houses were allowed to fight (He was afraid of public opinion for once).

Timo worked instead as a Red Cross helper and was serioulusly injured when a house collapsed after a bombing raid and he lay under the rubble for a long time. I should mention that most members of former ruling houses did not offer their lives to help the "commoners" then. (some of this even made it to the German press in the 50s where careful research still finds it)

Through their war experiences this whole generation was damaged in some way and we should not judge them as we did not live in these dark times. After the war they tended to use their sudden freedom and to get carried away a bit.

Greetings from Germany,

Alexander

 

[Marengo]

A blog with some information and pictures from 2013 about Prince Georg of Saxony:

Prinz Georg von Sachsen | corona

The blog seems to be based on an article of BILD.

Since 2009, the prince studied Economics in Aberdeen. He works as a salesperson at a store of brand T.M.Lewin. According to the article he would be finished in a few months. They expect him to plan a future in Dresden.

 

[Domhangairt]

Margrave Albert, who briefly succeeded his brother Maria Emanuel, before his own demise a few months later, allegedly reneged on his promise in 2002 to demorganitize his cousins marriages- and make Rudiger his dynastic heir. However, in his last interview before his own death in October 2012, Albert claimed the title of Margrave of Meissen and the headship of the Saxon royal house. According to Prince Rudiger, Albert named Rudiger as his heir (see www.haus-wettin.de) before his death. Albert issued a public written statement in 2002, that the headship of the Saxon royal house should pass to Prince Rudiger and his sons- to avoid extinction and preserve the agnatic line. Based on this statement, Rudiger is now Margrave of Meissen, but Karl-Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern also claims the title as dynastic grandson of Albert's aunt, Prince Margaret of Saxony, relying on the Semi-Salic principle, while Alexander Affif-Gesaphe claims the headship based on the dynastic family ruling in 1997. In the unlikely event of a restoration, the people of Saxony would have to vote of the issue.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The future King Frederick Augustus II had been an officer in the War of the Sixth Coalition.
However, he had little interest in military affairs.

King Johann I of Saxony did not like his daughter-in-law, Crown Princess Louise, bicycling in knickerbockers.
​

 

[wettinus]

Just a small correction...


Quite wrong. You mean King Georg I. Crown princess Luise of Habsburg-Toskana was the wife of later King Friedrich August III.

 

[wettinus]

Succession in the Albertinian branch of the house of Wettin
_______________________________________________

As there are some misconceptions about the succession in our house I would like to straighten them out:

1. Since 1918 Germany and Austria-Hungary have abolished all privileges of our
aristrocracy. There is no official "succession" anymore.

2. Unofficially succession and belonging to the aristocracy is handled by the
German "Adelsrechtsausschuss", who - alas - being formed by the lower and middle
aristocracy, has nothing to do with our former royal families.

3. There is an agnatic and very alive branch of the royal family of Saxony which
is living in Saxony and has therefore every right of succession, being
descended through King Friedrich August III of Saxony - Prince Ernst Heinrich
of Saxony - Prince Georg Timo of Saxony to Prince Rüdiger of Saxony and his children
and grandchildren. Everybody else claiming to be in the succession or speaking for the
house of Wettin is either adopted or does not belong to that family or house at all.

4. That Prince Georg Timo of Saxony did marry morganatically is of no avail,
because when he married, the marriage laws of modern democratic Germany
applied. There is no "morganatic" marriage anymore. Common law family relations apply.

5. Unfortunally (this applies only to Germany) after 1918 aristocratic titles like
Prince, Herzog (Duke), Graf (Count), Freiherr (Baron) etc. were added to the
surname of a person, if they so wished. This means that there are some
princes, counts etc. around who never belonged to the aristocracy but were
adopted or bought their titles. Most of them therefore have no succession rights
or rights of inheritance.

6. As always and everywhere all comes down to the question of money.
When the GDR joined the BRD, some aristocratic families came into a
sudden and unexpected inheritance of land and goods formery belonging to
them. This also applies to the house of Wettin. No wonder some very odd
new "heirs" and ways of "inheritance" cropped up.

 

[Cory]

Royal Musings: Prince Alexander talks about Saxony settlement

Royal Musings: Saxony government settles clams with members of former royal family

 

[CyrilVladisla]

It was interesting to learn that the former royal family will receive sheet music and eleven pieces of furniture.
​

 

[Cory]

The German prince with a Mexican accent who met Pope Francis

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for the link Cory. The article promoted the prince to 'monarch' though.

 

[Cory]

I do not suppose Prince Alexander considrs himself as such.

 

[Benjamin]

An article from Eurohistory with links to video reports about the audience of the Pope with the Markgraf von Meißen and his family:

http://erhj.blogspot.com/2015/06/saxony-margrave-of-meien-received-by.html?m=1

 

[Marengo]

Guy Stair Sainty posted on the European Royals MB a story about the audience. He says that the margrave falsely claimed that his titles were recognised by the Vatican.

The European Royals Message Board: Re: Sachsen-Gessaphe family in papal audience

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

As the Albertinische Linie of the House of Wettin had no male descendants of Ebenbürtige marriages, in 1999 Prince Maria Emmanuel von Sachsen adopted his nephew Alexander de Afif, son of his sister Princess Maria Anna. He formally vested this adoption by a notarized agreement of all members of the Albertinische Linie and appointed Alexander as his immediate successor as Chef of the House.

Since Alexander is no Wettin by birth, and therefore no agnatic descendant of the Wettin dynasty, this arrangement was challenged by the descendants of Prince Ernst Heinrich von Sachsen. The Deutscher Adelsrechtsausschuß (German aristocracy legal committee) considered that the succession of the Albertinische Linie of the House of Wettin has been lapsed. Therefore no one is allowed to the title Markgraf von Meissen. Also the prefix of "Royal Highness" can no longer be used. Alexander can be called "Prinz von Sachsen" as that is his legal surname after the adoption, hyphenated with his father's assumed surname "Gessaphe".

That the Pope has been uncritical to this says a lot. Since this Argentinean has entered the Vatican, the old conscious and precise (but slow) continental hierarchy has been replaced by fresh blood from all over the world, with little understanding of precise and fine differences on the Continent.

By the way, the members of the Wettin dynasty whom once supported the adoption of Alexander de Afif, later "Gessaphe" have withdrawn their support, by notarial declaration. This after it emerged the so-called "noble" descendance of the family de Afif, later "Gessaphe" can not be proved at all. At the other side, this Alexander de Afif, later "Gessaphe" now Alexander Prinz von Sachsen by adoption, has made a perfectly Ebenbürtige marriage with Princess Gisela of Bavaria. In any way, he can not be Markgraf of Meissen. If he is, then I am the Emperor of Rome.

 

[Cory]

I do not suppose he uses the title of Markgraf of Meissen.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I do not suppose he uses the title of Markgraf of Meissen.

We can consider it more or less as a merge of two names, like the last (female) descendant of the ancient House de la Trémoïlle married with a Prince de Ligne. Their issue started to name themselves De Ligne de la Trémoïlle.

Here a female descendant of the Albertinische Linie, a Princess Von Sachsen married with a Mr De Afif (later "Gessaphe") and their three sons started to name themselves Von Sachsen-Gessaphe. Legally, due to adoption, they are a Prinz Von Sachsen indeed.

But... Alexander indeed designates himself as Markgraf von Meissen, look at their official website... That is quite questionable indeed. For me he has simply established an new non-agnatic branch of the House Von Sachsen. He can never be the Markgraf von Meissen as long as there are still male agnates around...

 

[Cory]

Princes of Saxe-Weimar, of Saxe-Coburg and Saxe-Meiningen signed a document contesting the right to the title of Prince of Saxony to Alexander:

Wettiner-Prinz ausgeschlossen: Beben im höchsten sächsischen Adel! - Dresden - Bild.de

 

[MAfan]

What a mess. To the best of my understanding, the document basically states that the Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and the Duke of Saxe-Meiningen, as Heads of the three surviving lines of the House of Wettin, do not recognize Mr. Alexander Prinz von Sachsen as a member of the House of Wettin, nor as a Prince of Saxony and neither as the Head of the Royal House of Saxony.
What I wonder is, do they have any right to question the succession of the Housee of Saxony? And who should be the successor to the late Margrave of Meissen?

 

[Lee-Z]

As i understand it their statement is that Alexander was adopted and is therefore not a member of the nobility, that he is not a member of the house of Wettin and that he is not the successor of Markgraf Maria Emanuel von Meissen
But i'm not completely clear on whether there's a reason for this statement now...?
As a reason for the statement the phrase "the public is entitled to know the truth" is used, but that seems a bit cryptic to me?

 

[JR76]

As i understand it their statement is that Alexander was adopted and is therefore not a member of the nobility, that he is not a member of the house of Wettin and that he is not the successor of Markgraf Maria Emanuel von Meissen
But i'm not completely clear on whether there's a reason for this statement now...?
As a reason for the statement the phrase "the public is entitled to know the truth" is used, but that seems a bit cryptic to me?

IIRC Alexander has done some work for the state of Saxony so maybe that's why the members of the House of Weetin feel the need to put their foot down on the matter and make it clear that the rest of the family basically thinks he's ursurping their heritage? Please note that these are my words not theirs.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[Stefan]

What a mess. To the best of my understanding, the document basically states that the Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and the Duke of Saxe-Meiningen, as Heads of the three surviving lines of the House of Wettin, do not recognize Mr. Alexander Prinz von Sachsen as a member of the House of Wettin, nor as a Prince of Saxony and neither as the Head of the Royal House of Saxony.

Also the german Nobility association dioes not recognize Alexander as member of the Royal House of Saxony and also not as it's Head.
here is e detalied document in german on their Website: http://www.adel-in-deutschland.de/GutachtenHausWettinZwischengutachten.pdf

 

[Charles]

What I wonder is, do they have any right to question the succession of the Housee of Saxony? And who should be the successor to the late Margrave of Meissen?

The titular Grand Duke of Saxony and Dukes of Saxe-Meiningen & Hildburghausen and of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha are actually dynasts of the Saxon royal family. The last monarchical constitution settles the succession of the Kingdom of Saxony upon the "Saxon princely house", that is the whole House of Wettin itself. A pretender doesn't gain more powers than he would have had during the monarchy itself. Maria Emmanuel couldn't bump eventual dynasts further down.

During the last Saxon re-shuffle, the King of Saxony participated in the discussions. Likewise, a change in the succession of Royal Saxony likely would have involved the Ernestine lines.

 

[Benjamin]

Michael Benedikt of Saxe-Weimar has been opposed to Alexander of Saxony from the beginning.

Schock für Sachsens Königsfamilie: Adelsrechtsausschuss erklärt die Wettiner Königslinie für erloschen - Dresden - Bild.de

 

[Benjamin]

According to the poster Bernardino on the Nobiliana forum, the other lines of the Saxon dynasty did not have succession rights in the Kingdom of Saxony.

Saxony became an independent country from 1806 and it legally had its own succession rules not connected to the pre-1806 condition, which still affects the families once ruling in the Wettiner Thuringian duchies.

The Saxon Constitution of 1831 in its 7th article permitted the Crown of Saxony to go to a female (of the closest line to her predecessor) or to her heir in the event of the extinction of all equal agnatic members of the Royal House, with the premise the equality of marriages was preserved …
Once the late Margrave of Meissen considered his sisters' marriage to be an equal one, then her offspring should be considered entitled for succession...

Also, The Königlich Sächsisches Hausgesetz (Saxon Royal House Law) of 1837, in its first article stated clearly that the Royal House of Saxony consisted in the Albertiner Line of the House of Saxony, explicitly saying it is/was composed both by princes and princesses of the family born of equal marriages.
Article 3 says the Princesses are ranked according to their succession rights to the throne.
Article 15 speaks of their right of succession in the terms of Article 7 of the Constitution of Saxony of 1831.

The Royal House of Saxony is independent. Still they are right when they say HRH The Margrave of Meissen is not a real Wettin, that's not questionable, I myself tend to see this line as the Wettin-Afif.

 

[Cory]

The Three Dukes and their Families do not have succession rights in the Kingdom of Saxony and their opinions regarding Succession in the Royal House of Saxony do not have any real consequence.

 

[eya]

Finally i have not understand who is the heir of Saxony?