Princely House of Thurn und Taxis 1 (February 2004 - July 2008)

[Danielane]

Originally Posted by PreDoc

There was a question recently on the American game show Jeopardy! about the world's youngest billionaire (I don't quite remember the wording) and the answer referred to a Prince in this family. I was out of the room and didn't hear the correct answer ... does anybody know?

Yes, it's Albert, the current Fürst von Thurn und Taxis (born 1983).

The difference between a Fürst and a Prinz: the Fürst is the "titular", the Head of the Family, and would be the regnant prince if the family still ruled a principality. The Prinz is a member of the family, who has the right to use a princely title, but is not the Head of the family.

[victoria_89]

the article from Vanity Fair mostly talked about how Gloria survived her husbands depts and has made her sons money. Also it talks about her huge support for the catholic church and the current pope that she knew before he was pope. She wants all the italian (because she lives in rome )royal families to have a connection with the church again.
Albert is very much a mommys boy and attends the univ.of edinburgh. Princess micheal of yugoslavia or greece said she sat by albert at prince Rainer's funneral and found him very charming.

[jeneve_valois]

Originally Posted by Warren

Albert will probably marry in accordance with the House Rules.

does anyone know what the house rules are? all these royal rules *sigh*

[Warren]

Originally Posted by jeneve_valois

does anyone know what the house rules are? all these royal rules *sigh*

Albert, as Head of the House, can make his own rules, but the pressure will be on him to marry: 1. a Roman Catholic, 2. a princess or countess from a reigning/former-reigning/Mediatised House, 3. a noble-born woman at the least. But of course he can marry anyone he chooses.

[--_Teresa_--]

Hey

I'm from Regensburg, and so direct at the source concerning Thurn und Taxis
I think they are a very sympathic family, and I' ve already met Gloria and two of her children (Albert and Elisabeth). Very nice, funny and natural...
Furthermore I think Elisabeth and Maria are two very beautiful girls

The party in Paris was organized by the 2 princesses.
Maria was about 2 or 3 month in Nepal and helped in a hospital. This work she documented with a camera and made a film, which she showed in Paris to her rich friends and collected money (I think they reached about 70.000)

Do you know the "Thurn und Taxis- Schlossfestspiele"?
They are currently, hier a link http://odeon-concerte.de/regensburg/shopr.htm (if you click at "Rückblick there are some photos from the last year)
This year I'm also going myself. It's a really great event...

Gloria and children themselves play every year a little role
This year Gloria was the "Fürstin von Verona" in Romeo und Julia

Yeah, I could tell quite a lot from them

But I' ve also a question: Do you have some more photos where they are at their house in kenya?
The one I' ve seen here, are very nice...

Here some pictures ( can find them when you search Thurn und Taxis at www.topixx.com)

http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/see...hurn+und+Taxis

[Paula**]

Thank you very much Teresa, for all the information and pictures,
its really nice of you :o
So cool you live in Regensburg

[Simeon]

Thurn und Taxis made me pose this question, but any examples would be great. I was just curious, non-reigning houses (german/austrian especially) are just following old tradition? Do they all still follow male primogeniture out of tradition or has there been huge trusts set up to perpetuate the family legacy? i.e. TnT helped to protect her husband's fortune for her son Albert. Why did it not pass by way of partible inheritance? All other houses seem to follow this pattern of male-primo. What is the reason they still use Prince/Princess for the family members? Had Albert not have been born would 'prince of tnt' and it's inheritance have passed to some distant nephew of Johannes and not his wife and daughters? or would the princely house simply have died with Johannes?

I know someone is just going to say the titles don't mean anything and it just depends on how the will is left...
... but there is usually crazy answers to this stuff.

Thanks in advance.

[kelly9480]

Originally Posted by Simeon

I was just curious, non-reigning houses (german/austrian especially) are just following old tradition? Do they all still follow male primogeniture out of tradition or has there been huge trusts set up to perpetuate the family legacy? i.e. TnT helped to protect her husband's fortune for her son Albert.

I don't know of any families that don't use male primogeniture.

Why did it not pass by way of partible inheritance? All other houses seem to follow this pattern of male-primo.

To keep the inheritance intact.

What is the reason they still use Prince/Princess for the family members?

They're still entitled to use the title, so why not?

Had Albert not have been born would 'prince of tnt' and it's inheritance have passed to some distant nephew of Johannes and not his wife and daughters? or would the princely house simply have died with Johannes?

It would have passed to the nearest eligible male relative.

[GrandDuchess]

Originally Posted by Simeon

i.e. TnT helped to protect her husband's fortune for her son Albert. Why did it not pass by way of partible inheritance?

Well as her husband died, she had to stop her incredible spending and start to protect the Thurn und Taxis estate for the future. Which was good. I think it's good that they try to keep the family's assetts together, instead of shattering them to distant family here and there. It's a historic heritage, it should be kept for future Fürsts.

[Simeon]

Originally Posted by kelly9480

I don't know of any families that don't use male primogeniture.
To keep the inheritance intact.
They're still entitled to use the title, so why not?
It would have passed to the nearest eligible male relative.

After Weimar all germans were equal in the eyes of the law. If Johannes had left his fortune in state (without a will) it probably would have had no choice but to follow partible inheritance (I do not know for a fact if germany does follow this system if someone dies in state). Or personally, if I had no son I would find it hard to pass a huge inheritance on to a "distant stranger" to follow tradition of an instrument of government that had lapsed 100 years ago rather than my daughters. An explaination or reference of why german nobility follows this practice, or if they have been granted some special dispensation from the republic would be appreciated. Maybe it is just tradition, suprised no one has broke with it though.
Also, along the same thought, the princess/prince title. Why are they "entitled to use the title" was that part of being mediatized? Is there some instrument that allows them to from the government? i.e. the Greek government allows the King and his family to still use their titles, albeit only for thier lifetime. Or the Iraqi family is granted the title HRH Prince/Princess from the Hasemite kingdom of Jordan, Hannovers were technically princes of great britain et. al. for a time being, etc. Anyway, would appreciate a little clarification, and thank you.

[Stefan]

There are no Titles in germany since 1919. The titles became a part of the Surname. for example Carl, Herzog von Württemberg. Legally when in a Princely Family like the Thurn and Taxis the Fürst dies there is no right t ochange the Name of the Erbprinz to Fürst but mostly it is recognmized if the Titles are in use band known by in the Area the live.

[kelly9480]

Originally Posted by Simeon

After Weimar all germans were equal in the eyes of the law. If Johannes had left his fortune in state (without a will) it probably would have had no choice but to follow partible inheritance (I do not know for a fact if germany does follow this system if someone dies in state).

I think you mean "intestate", not in state. The TnT fortune is tied up in trusts and agreements that likely predate Johannes' passing (and inheritance, for that matter). If the estate is entailed to the next head of the house, it wouldn't matter whether Johannes had a will or not.

Or personally, if I had no son I would find it hard to pass a huge inheritance on to a "distant stranger" to follow tradition of an instrument of government that had lapsed 100 years ago rather than my daughters. An explaination or reference of why german nobility follows this practice, or if they have been granted some special dispensation from the republic would be appreciated. Maybe it is just tradition, suprised no one has broke with it though.

It is tradition, and most, if not all, the German families have entailed their assets, or placed them in a trust for the use of the head of the house. Johannes probably couldn't have handed it to his daughters without facing angry relatives. And there's an understanding that the head of the house should be able to live as the head of the house. Running the large estates, managing the castles, etc, is a time-consuming job, which is why you see some instances of elder sons resigning their rights to the headship in favor of younger sons who are willing to do the job.

Also, along the same thought, the princess/prince title. Why are they "entitled to use the title" was that part of being mediatized? Is there some instrument that allows them to from the government?

Germany, unlike Austria, allowed titles to be made into surnames. Germany allows royals to change their surnames as their titles change. For example, in Germany, an Erbprinz (Hereditary Prince) would be allowed to change his name to Herzog (Duke, and presumably head of the house), once he inherited. In Austria, however, the surname-title wouldn't exist at all (Archduke Otto of Austria is simply Otto Habsburg), and no name changes would be allowed, or would be very difficult.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Stefan

There are no Titles in germany since 1919. The titles became a part of the Surname. for example Carl, Herzog von Württemberg. Legally when in a Princely Family like the Thurn and Taxis the Fürst dies there is no right t ochange the Name of the Erbprinz to Fürst but mostly it is recognmized if the Titles are in use band known by in the Area the live.

There had been a legal case when bureaucracy did not allow an hereditary prince to change his name to "Fuerst" after his father's death. it went, IIRC, up to the highest court of Germany and was resolved that this kind of name change is based on a historical custom, which makes it into the required "Wichtiger Grund" (Important reason) for a name change in Germany. Thus, it is legal to change your name when you become the head of your family.

[Prince of Chota]

Originally Posted by qui mal y pense

Gloria is something like Madonna. She is constantly re-inventing herself. After her husband died, she shed her bad girl image and devoted herself to her children. She also donated (sold?) many of her historically important jewels to France.

She did sell many of the jewels (but also kept quite a few). To my knowledge, she donated the Empress Eugenie Pearl tiara to France (where it now resides).

[kelly9480]

The Eugenie tiara was sold to France, IIRC, for 6 million (I think francs). She didn't donate any of the jewels.

[Prince of Chota]

Originally Posted by kelly9480

The Eugenie tiara was sold to France, IIRC, for 6 million (I think francs). She didn't donate any of the jewels.

Thanks, I actually wasn't sure, although I have seen one source that used the word "gave" (I suppose it depends on one's interpretation--France can certainly afford it, and did sell it in the first place--it is only fair that they should buy it back).

Most of what was sold was relatively small, although several of the larger tiaras (those seldom used by Fuerstin Gloria) were sold, along with several large necklaces and brooches. It's amazing what is left, though. And I don't think she got rid of that awful emerald, ruby, and diamond choker that everyone hates so much (at least on the worst royal jewels thread).

[Prince of Chota]

Originally Posted by Katie

But there is no direct blood line connecting Gloria and the Bavarians.

Well, let us not be hasty. It is easily possible to find a link between all royal and noble families, particularly those in the former HRE. The distinction is that it is not a recent link, and certainly not one that would merit saying that she is a "relative" (implying a fairly close tie) to the younger Wittelsbachs (the Bavarian Ducal-Royal family).

[--_Teresa_--]

Hey,
here in Regensburg, was last week a benefit circus-gala, and of course withe the Thurn und Taxis
Here you can see some pictures from the show

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_5...bg=530&bild=54

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_5...g=530&bild=132

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_5...g=530&bild=180

The two had really fun
I think Gloria was looking very good, and Albert with his dogs was really cute
Maria Theresia and Elisabeth were sitting in the audience. Both cute and very beautiful
The two have a very close relationship to her mother :)
And all of them very nice and natural persons...