Princely House of Lippe

[Warren]

The Princely House of Lippe





Arms of the Principality of Lippe
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Founded by Bernhard Lord of Lippe, living in 1123
Count of the Holy Empire 1529
Prince of the Empire 1720 (Lippe-Detmold)
reigned until 12 November 1918 (Lippe-Biesterfeld)
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[richardsw]

Does anyone have any pictures of Furst Armin and his family?

[Marengo]

Netty Leistra of Nettyroyal.nl has a special on prince Armin's 80th birthday in 2004, look here.

Two pictures from the site:

Fürst Armin and Fürstin Traute

Prince Stephan and Princess Maria

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Another picture of Stephan and Marie, here.

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And here a clip of Dutch programme 'Eén vandaag' which had an interview with Prince Armin about Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands, the interview starts after 27 minutes.

[Jason R Maier esq]

Question: I noticed that Furst Armin was the only son by Furst Leopold IV's second marriage to Princess Anna of Ysenburg-Büdingen.

Why was Furst Leopold's eldest son from his first marriage (Hereditary Prince Ernst) passed over?

[Marengo]

At the time Fuerst Leopold IV died his two eldest sons married morganatically, so they were out of the line of succession. Armin was still single but marrid a commoner 4 years after his fathers death. I think he renounced his succession rights for a while (to an uncle) but somewhere in the 80-ties he resumed it again. It is all rather unclear I am afraid.

[Warren]

As clear as mud! The House of Lippe is well-versed in succession challenges beginning with the death of Woldemar, Prince of Lippe in 1895. He was succeeded by his mentally ill and unmarried brother Alexander. Thence followed a struggle between the three regents, Adolf of Schaumburg-Lippe, Ernst of Lippe-Biesterfeld and Leopold of Lippe-Biesterfeld and the three branches of Schaumburg-Lippe, Lippe-Biesterfeld and Lippe-Weissenfeld over the succession.

The head of the Biesterfeld branch, Count Ernst, was the rightful heir, but the Kaiser favoured Adolf of Schaumburg-Lippe who was married to his sister Victoria. To the Kaiser's chagrin the situation got so messy that he (the Kaiser) was bypassed and the matter was referred to the Federal Council who requested that the Chancellor of the Empire refer the question of the succession to a special court of arbitration. This court was presided over by King Albert of Saxony who determined in 1897 that Count Ernest of Lippe-Biesterfeld was the only and rightful successor and was henceforth the sole regent of the principality.

It was not over yet, and the Schaumburg-Lippes launched a counter-offensive by challenging Count Ernst's marriage with the intention of having the children of the marriage declared morganatic. Count-Regent Ernst died in 1904 and his eldest son Leopold was sworn in as regent. The Kasier refused to recognise him as regent and once again the issue of who was the legitimate regent and who was to be the reigning Prince after the death of the by now insane Alexander was referred to judicial arbitration. In 1905 Fürst Alexander died and the Court Justice of the Empire declared that the descendants of Count-Regent Ernst were entitled to the Princely crown. With the death of Alexander the line of Lippe-Detmold was extinct in the male line and the Lippe-Biesterfelds became the Princely branch.

The Kaiser, never one to forget a real or imagined slight to his dignity, got his own back in 1907. During a military review Prince Bernhard, a major in the Prussian army, was about to present his troops to the Kaiser when the Kaiser turned his head and pretended to have a conversation with his aide de camp. Responding to this direct affront, Bernhard gave the order to his men to march immedaitely to the barracks. On his death in 1934 he was lauded as one of the few men who had publicly stood up to the Kaiser.

There were other struggles within the family during WWI over the recognition of the marriage of Prince Bernhard, and between the Beisterfeld and Weissenfeld branches over the question of the right to bear the Princely title. Further disputes took place between Fürst Leopold IV and various family members over apanages which weren't resolved until 1942.

The internal peace lasted about a decade and when Fürst Armin married the commoner Traute Becker in 1953 he was forced to renounce his rights as Head of the House. Although recognised by most members of the Lippe family, the descendants of Prince Julius Ernest of Lippe, a son of Count-Regent Ernst, refused to do so and proclaimed themselves the rightful heirs. Prince Ernst August thus became 'Prince of Lippe by right of primogeniture'.

Armin had passed his rights as Head of the Princely House to his half-brother Prince Leopold Bernhard who died unmarried in 1965. In 1980 Prince Ernst August withdrew his claim to the Headship of the House. With the strong support of his cousin Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, born a Prince of Lippe-Biesterfeld, Armin was once again the recognised and acknowledged Fürst zur Lippe, and remains so to this day.

source: Royalty Digest #166 (April 2005)

[Warren]

1. Count-Regent Ernst of Lippe-Biesterfeld (1842-1904)
2. His eldest son Fürst Leopold IV (1871-1949) and family

copyright expired

[Marengo]

Thanks for the extensive reply on the Lippe-quarrels. I already suspected that prince Bernhard had a role in it, and he didn't have much time for nonsense so the outcome is no surprise.

Dutch magazine 'Royalty' visited Schloss Detmold and interviewed prince Armin. In the article they emphasize 3 or 4 times what a nice man the prince is, which they normally never do. Prince Armin greeted the reporter in Dutch but said he could not hold a conversation in the language. He is able to understand it perfectly though.

Some info from the interview:

- Since he is 13 years younger than prince Bernhard he never had much contact with him for a long time, in his childhood Bernhard probably had more interest in Armin's elder siblings.

- When Bernhard and Juliana were engaged the couple visited Detmold. Armin had a photocamera and made pictures. The princess started playing with a small cat and the cat captured Armins attention too. Consequently he almost made no pictures of princess Juliana and wasted his photos on the cat, much to the anger of his mother.

- At the wedding of Juliana and Bernhard Armin was a pageboy. All the pageboys were requiered to wear white polished shoes, but due to the depression none could be found by his family. In the end Armin had to wear white heels of his aunt, which made his feet hurt so much that he did not enjoy the wedding at all.

- Prince Armin attended the 25th wedding celebrations of Juliana and Bernhard, but there was not much contact so quickly after the war.

- After the abdication of Juliana, he saw his Dutch relatives more frequently. But Bernhard had a very different lifestyle, the prince is rather quiet and shy. He would sometimes have an appointment with Bernhard but only a few hours before that Bernhard could cancel it, faking an illness. A day later Armin saw pictures of a 'sick' prince Bernhard somewhere in the world descending an airplane.

- Prince Armin doesn't like hunting. He was in the air defence when he was a teenager during WWII, he saiys he heard so many shots that he can not stand any more. His son Stefan does hunt however.

- Armin and his wife are biologists and created a botanical garden outside the castle.

- Prince Armin refers to the family feuds with the Schaumburg family and later with his other family members but he doesn't say much, just that it was caused as his father disinherited the elder sons and that everything has been solved now.

- Schloss Detmold attracts 35.000 visitors each year, many of them are Dutch.

- His eldest grandson is called Bernhard, after the Ducth prince. The son of Armin and his children live in Schloss Detmold too. The children visit the local school. Because they live in a castle many schoolchildren want to visit their home, so each grandchild is allowed to take one friend each day. The prince says that the role of the family changed a lot after the revolution of 1918 but in Detmold it means something to people that there is a schloss, a prince etc. They like the idea.

- Armin recalls that the day after Queen Juliana died he was called by Bernhard. Bernhard seemed very shaken by his wives death and that night the doctors actually thought he would die too.

[Stefan]

Armin does not use the style of Fürst only Prince same as Prince Richard of Sayn-Wittgenstein.Berleburg.
Juliana and Bernhard also attended the Wedding of Armin's son Stephan to Countess Maria of Solms-Laubach (who is a niece of Prince Richard of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg) and the christening of one of their sons (i beleive th oldest but not sure).

[Next Star]

Does Prince Armin and his wife the princess have any children ? And if not who is the next in line to the headship of the Lippe princely house after Armin passes on?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Next Star

Does Prince Armin and his wife the princess have any children ? And if not who is the next in line to the headship of the Lippe princely house after Armin passes on?

See my post vefore you (nr. 9). The have one son Stephan Leopold who is married to Countess Maria zu Solms-Laubach, a niece of Prince Richard of Sayn-Wiottgenstein-Berleburg (her mother Madeleine is his sister)

Stephan Leopold and Maria have 5 children

- Bernhard Leopold, * 1995
- Heinrich, * 1997
- Wilhelm * 1999
- Luise * 2001
- Mathilde, * 2003

[Next Star]

Correct me if I am wrong but was the late Prince Bernhard of Netherlands apart of this house before marrying the late Queen Juilana of Netherlands?

[HMTLove23]

yes he was